how much do I put up with before deciding on divorce?

[Got Charmed 0]

Im reading these replys and im shocked at what some of you are saying, im a man and this just goes to show how abuse takes different forms such as:"I know he is not beating me or anything like that. I don't know if he would or not." sometimes mental abuse is the worst and some say submit to him What? this guy is gobe to far and what he is doing is just wrong, in america that type of behavior is not accepted i can go on for days but i just had to put my two cents in, keep the change.

[sam1 1]

Thank you Visajourney for helping me an my husband navigate through getting a K1 visa and doing AOS. Where is the Post Icon of a broken heart? Now my marital ship is taking on some serious water. I think we might sink.

I am not a housewife type. I am not happy having life revolve around food - that is, cooking, and cleaning up after the cooking and the eating. And cleaning. His idea of clean is not mine. My idea of cleaning is keeping everything sanitary enough that ants, flys, cockroaches, and other bugs, plus mold or things like salmonella, that none of these things are encouraged to live with us. This causes conflict. I don't know how much I can change before it drives me crazy or at least makes me into someone I do not want to be. There are things in life to do and experience and unless the domestic activities are personally fulfilling to the person doing them, for ME it seems like a waste of time.

There are bedroom issues too. He won't listen to me when I try to describe how a bad day or being yelled at effects my interest in any action happening in the bedroom. I can't say too much more before it would be indecent of me. I let him "have me" too many times when I didn't want to. Now the culminating act is uncomfortable and sometimes painful. I tried to describe this too him so we could work it out. Maybe there is a communication issue. His english is good enough for most days, but maybe not good enough for this? He won't brush his teeth and they look bad. I know my breathe is not good either, but trying to not smell his when we are intimate - plus not wanting to breathe into his nose - makes for a tense scenario for me. Which is part of my tension at that time.

He doesn't like my sister. They had some issues. She certainly has her problems, but he insists on describing them to her in glaring terms trying to make me not like her as much, or maybe just to make me see who she really is. And he says he doesn't want her to think he is keeping me from talking to her. He thinks I only defend her, but that I don't defend him when she says something not so nice about him. I know I need to be cautious with how I say things to her or it will cause her to get the wrong idea (she feels the whole world is against her sometimes - and given her past I can understand somewhat why) and make the whole situation escalate out of control. He does not want to see that I am trying to do that. They are both strong willed.

He does not treat my dog very well. She is my dog and I should have say over how she is treated. She is shy, easily spooked. She seems to react that way more in response to men. He likes to chase her and some dogs see that as play (today he did that and did something so she yipped a couple times - he said that he was trying to teach her to act like a real dog), but she shakes and her tail tucks and if he raises her hand she cowers down. I see things that alarm me. It's starting to get abusive and I don't want her to live her remaining time shaking and being chased. I fear she might slip running away down the steps. She is getting old and be already slips sometimes without being chased. I start to feel that this is a bad situation for her and I need to get her out of it. That makes me wonder if maybe it's bad for me too. Or maybe I've just been reading too much about animals mirroring us - and sometimes showing us what our emotions are telling us even if we don't see it so clearly.

I make many tiny mistakes rather often and he does not want to hear "I'm sorry." I feel he over reacts and gets more irritated than the situation warrants. I noticed my body language feels like I'm trying to make him feel like he has been punishing enough and please to stop because I can't take much more. I used to cry. When I became hysterical he would finally stop and go all nice. Once I would calm down he would go, "I didn't want you to be this upset. But...." Now I just feel doowwwwwn. My heart feels heavy.

He puts me down with words. And of course he's "just" trying to point out areas where I need work. He says I only make excuses. I've heard of breaking someone down to build them back up, but... when will he build me back up?

He threatens divorce. He talks about going to other girls if I don't change.

He says I'm only thinking about myself, that I am not thinking about his feelings. He gets mad and I get verrrry sad. You know that kind of sad where you don't feel like you have energy to stand up, and you might notice you stomach feels empty, but you don't really care? When I'm like that, I don't know how to see his feelings. All I see is anger, and it does not feel justified. He said I always have an excuse, "tell me what it will be tomorrow so I'll know early." The idea of jumping up to make him food makes me feel like I would be reacting out of fear of his reaction. That makes me feel like I am about to act like a door mat. After the last two days, I'm always waiting for something to happen accidentally to set him off again. Is that a way to live? Fearing what the other person will do if you don't have dinner ready on time?

There are other things too. I'm trying to keep it to the ones that hurt or concern me the most. Did I say he started snapping pens and has started throwing things when he feels mad? He says in his culture if the wife was like I am, the husband would hit her.

I get compared to women from his country.

And in some way I feel like it's my fault. I'm sure in some way there is something I could have done to stop this from getting so bad. I know there are some cultural differences - although occassionally I try to show him that, but he says that's not cultural, that it's a problem in me. Or he agrees and talks about how it is a disease with Americans. The way he says it, I start to be offended. Sometimes he isn't quite serious, but I have always had some trouble knowing if he was joking. I know he changed a lot of things when he came here. I don't know how much more I can change. And I don't know if I want to be the person I would have to become if I changed certain things.

There is this widening gulf between us. I didn't want it to be this way. I don't know how to fix it. If it can be fixed. Or if it is too much for me. I don't know how to cater to him without losing myself. Will catering to him make him listen to how I feel? I know it would be bad to bring a child into this, so getting pregnant is out.

He is smart. He can figure people out very quickly. He learns quickly too, and his memory is much better than mine. He does not understand that he has an advantage in these areas. He trusts his ideas about people. But sometimes he is wrong or does not have the right info, coming from a different cultural background. He does not distinguish between the two. Whatever, it makes me second guess myself, from all the things he tells me about me. In the areas he is correct about, it's good to know, but the way he says it to me is not tactful. Which of these things is he right about, and which ones are flat out WRONG?

I know he is not beating me or anything like that. I don't know if he would or not. With the pen breaking and the knocking things over, increasingly foul language, the talk about what he would do I was from his country, it makes me wonder. He says things in anger and does not censor himself, but it makes me consider if he might one day do something. My first husband was rather a wimp and even though I imagined he might do something, I never really had the feeling that he would. With this man, I do not know.

How long do I sit through this? I rack my mind trying to think of what I could say or do, but I am not savvy or street smart. Everything I say is wrong or makes things worse. He pushes me verbally for answers. Sometimes the question is a loaded question, and many times I do not know how to answer. For example, the question should not be if the man is justified in cheating because his wife would not "sleep" with him, the question should be, "why does she not want to sleep with him." "Sleeping" with someone, in what experience I do have, has usually been uncomfortable because I get tense. I think the only thing that would please him, is if I took a shower right now and put on feminine clothes, and when he comes up for bed, go up to him and say that I'm sorry I've been a bad wife and have not been sleeping with him, and maybe cry and go on about how wrong I was and how I will only cook things from his country from now on, and it will always be on time. It's not good to do "that" if it hurts, and I can't see living life around the kitchen. That is sooooo not me. Do I have to do that to make this work out?

Come on VJers, I really need some support right now. He is all edges right now and I'm already treading one. What are my options?

I'm so mentally and emotionally drained.

No one submits to no one; it is a two way street. One thing you have to remember is that life is too short and it is not worth living even for a minute being unhappy if you can't help it. If I were you I will sit down with him and talk and decide what you have to do to make both of you happy. If it is separating or whatever, you will have to take that option because it is not worth living feeling like the one you explained. Sometimes a cheating partner shows anger and frustration against the other partner to hide his/her guilt feeling. Good luck to both of you, and I hope you will work it out.

Edited February 25, 2009 by sam1

[Steph0814 1]

Hahhahha.... "Submit to your husband" Bwahhaaa Lady you may need to re-evaluate your relationship. Jeez

Marriage is a partnership, not a dictatorship.

And Oh Hell to the NO messing with your dog like that, the dog was there before him and will be after.

And forced sex, even if you are married that is RAPE. Report it. Sweetie leave him and his sorry a$$ he came here with.

All the best and much positive thoughts your way.

[noel_jas 0]

because of the way you are thats why i said that...you as a wife has to submit yourself to your husband...you are not ready to do that.

what you were talking was such an immature thing...talking about not brushing the teeth and about your dog...etc etc.. i mean if you are matured enough and ready to be a wife...you wont talk something like that against your husband...if you think you dont love your husband anymore then file for divorce...you dont need to elaborate all the things that he does..my gosh...if your not a housewife type then just be his wife.

You forgot the second half of that biblical reference - MEN LOVE YOUR WIVES LIKE CHRIST LOVED THE CHURCH. Christ would NEVER have treated his bride in such a manner as the OP is describing NEVER!!

OP - you are being abused and you need to get out of the relationship - immediately. If he is willing to attend marital counseling then do that, but the way you described his actions I don't see it happening. He isn't breaking you down for your own good he is breaking you down so he can control you. He is doing what he can to isolate you from your family (your sister) and make you reliant only on him. I have "been there done that" with an American and I can ASSURE you that the physical violence is just around the corner PLEASE GET HELP NOW BEFORE YOU BECOME A STATISTIC.

Here's your threat back to him - "Forced sex in this country is a FELONY charge that is NOT taken lightly, once you commit a sex offense you are branded for life and will NEVER have a normal life again." He is raping you and should be prosecuted on that!!!

I totally agree......you should talk with your husband......attend a marriage counselling....if things don't still work out then file a divorce....i am not going to put up with someone who would threaten me to divorce, look for another woman and compare me to the women in his country.....that's just pure BS.....he should have married a woman from his country instead.....i wish you all the best and be strong ok...

[sam1 1]

Thank you Visajourney for helping me an my husband navigate through getting a K1 visa and doing AOS. Where is the Post Icon of a broken heart? Now my marital ship is taking on some serious water. I think we might sink.

I am not a housewife type. I am not happy having life revolve around food - that is, cooking, and cleaning up after the cooking and the eating. And cleaning. His idea of clean is not mine. My idea of cleaning is keeping everything sanitary enough that ants, flys, cockroaches, and other bugs, plus mold or things like salmonella, that none of these things are encouraged to live with us. This causes conflict. I don't know how much I can change before it drives me crazy or at least makes me into someone I do not want to be. There are things in life to do and experience and unless the domestic activities are personally fulfilling to the person doing them, for ME it seems like a waste of time.

There are bedroom issues too. He won't listen to me when I try to describe how a bad day or being yelled at effects my interest in any action happening in the bedroom. I can't say too much more before it would be indecent of me. I let him "have me" too many times when I didn't want to. Now the culminating act is uncomfortable and sometimes painful. I tried to describe this too him so we could work it out. Maybe there is a communication issue. His english is good enough for most days, but maybe not good enough for this? He won't brush his teeth and they look bad. I know my breathe is not good either, but trying to not smell his when we are intimate - plus not wanting to breathe into his nose - makes for a tense scenario for me. Which is part of my tension at that time.

He doesn't like my sister. They had some issues. She certainly has her problems, but he insists on describing them to her in glaring terms trying to make me not like her as much, or maybe just to make me see who she really is. And he says he doesn't want her to think he is keeping me from talking to her. He thinks I only defend her, but that I don't defend him when she says something not so nice about him. I know I need to be cautious with how I say things to her or it will cause her to get the wrong idea (she feels the whole world is against her sometimes - and given her past I can understand somewhat why) and make the whole situation escalate out of control. He does not want to see that I am trying to do that. They are both strong willed.

He does not treat my dog very well. She is my dog and I should have say over how she is treated. She is shy, easily spooked. She seems to react that way more in response to men. He likes to chase her and some dogs see that as play (today he did that and did something so she yipped a couple times - he said that he was trying to teach her to act like a real dog), but she shakes and her tail tucks and if he raises her hand she cowers down. I see things that alarm me. It's starting to get abusive and I don't want her to live her remaining time shaking and being chased. I fear she might slip running away down the steps. She is getting old and be already slips sometimes without being chased. I start to feel that this is a bad situation for her and I need to get her out of it. That makes me wonder if maybe it's bad for me too. Or maybe I've just been reading too much about animals mirroring us - and sometimes showing us what our emotions are telling us even if we don't see it so clearly.

I make many tiny mistakes rather often and he does not want to hear "I'm sorry." I feel he over reacts and gets more irritated than the situation warrants. I noticed my body language feels like I'm trying to make him feel like he has been punishing enough and please to stop because I can't take much more. I used to cry. When I became hysterical he would finally stop and go all nice. Once I would calm down he would go, "I didn't want you to be this upset. But...." Now I just feel doowwwwwn. My heart feels heavy.

He puts me down with words. And of course he's "just" trying to point out areas where I need work. He says I only make excuses. I've heard of breaking someone down to build them back up, but... when will he build me back up?

He threatens divorce. He talks about going to other girls if I don't change.

He says I'm only thinking about myself, that I am not thinking about his feelings. He gets mad and I get verrrry sad. You know that kind of sad where you don't feel like you have energy to stand up, and you might notice you stomach feels empty, but you don't really care? When I'm like that, I don't know how to see his feelings. All I see is anger, and it does not feel justified. He said I always have an excuse, "tell me what it will be tomorrow so I'll know early." The idea of jumping up to make him food makes me feel like I would be reacting out of fear of his reaction. That makes me feel like I am about to act like a door mat. After the last two days, I'm always waiting for something to happen accidentally to set him off again. Is that a way to live? Fearing what the other person will do if you don't have dinner ready on time?

There are other things too. I'm trying to keep it to the ones that hurt or concern me the most. Did I say he started snapping pens and has started throwing things when he feels mad? He says in his culture if the wife was like I am, the husband would hit her.

I get compared to women from his country.

And in some way I feel like it's my fault. I'm sure in some way there is something I could have done to stop this from getting so bad. I know there are some cultural differences - although occassionally I try to show him that, but he says that's not cultural, that it's a problem in me. Or he agrees and talks about how it is a disease with Americans. The way he says it, I start to be offended. Sometimes he isn't quite serious, but I have always had some trouble knowing if he was joking. I know he changed a lot of things when he came here. I don't know how much more I can change. And I don't know if I want to be the person I would have to become if I changed certain things.

There is this widening gulf between us. I didn't want it to be this way. I don't know how to fix it. If it can be fixed. Or if it is too much for me. I don't know how to cater to him without losing myself. Will catering to him make him listen to how I feel? I know it would be bad to bring a child into this, so getting pregnant is out.

He is smart. He can figure people out very quickly. He learns quickly too, and his memory is much better than mine. He does not understand that he has an advantage in these areas. He trusts his ideas about people. But sometimes he is wrong or does not have the right info, coming from a different cultural background. He does not distinguish between the two. Whatever, it makes me second guess myself, from all the things he tells me about me. In the areas he is correct about, it's good to know, but the way he says it to me is not tactful. Which of these things is he right about, and which ones are flat out WRONG?

I know he is not beating me or anything like that. I don't know if he would or not. With the pen breaking and the knocking things over, increasingly foul language, the talk about what he would do I was from his country, it makes me wonder. He says things in anger and does not censor himself, but it makes me consider if he might one day do something. My first husband was rather a wimp and even though I imagined he might do something, I never really had the feeling that he would. With this man, I do not know.

How long do I sit through this? I rack my mind trying to think of what I could say or do, but I am not savvy or street smart. Everything I say is wrong or makes things worse. He pushes me verbally for answers. Sometimes the question is a loaded question, and many times I do not know how to answer. For example, the question should not be if the man is justified in cheating because his wife would not "sleep" with him, the question should be, "why does she not want to sleep with him." "Sleeping" with someone, in what experience I do have, has usually been uncomfortable because I get tense. I think the only thing that would please him, is if I took a shower right now and put on feminine clothes, and when he comes up for bed, go up to him and say that I'm sorry I've been a bad wife and have not been sleeping with him, and maybe cry and go on about how wrong I was and how I will only cook things from his country from now on, and it will always be on time. It's not good to do "that" if it hurts, and I can't see living life around the kitchen. That is sooooo not me. Do I have to do that to make this work out?

Come on VJers, I really need some support right now. He is all edges right now and I'm already treading one. What are my options?

I'm so mentally and emotionally drained.

No one submits to no one; it is a two way street. One thing you have to remember is that life is too short and it is not worth living even for a minute being unhappy if you can't help it. If I were you I will sit down with him and talk and decide what you have to do to make both of you happy. If it is separating or whatever, you will have to take that option because it is not worth living feeling like the one you explained. Sometimes a cheating partner shows anger and frustration against the other partner to hide his/her guilt feeling. Good luck to both of you, and I hope you will work it out.

PS: What I read on this forum in response to this lady's thread is pathetic. I did not really believe what I was reading. I feel really sorry for your partners.

[Sandrila 1]

When I became hysterical he would finally stop and go all nice. Once I would calm down he would go, "I didn't want you to be this upset. But...."

But..??? but what??? JUST DONT DO IT TO ME THEN!

How many times do you have to accept this response. I had someone do that to me as well and after a certain point you lose trust in them because you know they are not sincere and they get off, somehow, on you making belittling you. I guess it makes them feel like a “man”.

He puts me down with words. And of course he's "just" trying to point out areas where I need work.

Sounds like he is a PIECE of work!

Well maybe he needs some work too. I know it is hard when communication breaks down and both just blaming the other and just not able to tolerate each others’ flaws but we all can use a little work. No one is perfect it is not his job to change you, he married you, he should have known and was willing to take you on if he really “knew” you.

He threatens divorce.

Honestly there comes a time when you either stick it or go.

There is a fine line between normal marital issues and adjustments

and being abused or incompatibility. It takes work to make a marriage/relationship work. A couple should try only you or he know when it isn’t going to work.

that kind of sad where you don't feel like you have energy to stand up, and you might notice you stomach feels empty, but you don't really care?

That is depression, that is despair, that is defeat. When you don’t care anymore that is bad. But is easy not to care for someone who truly doesn’t care about you. Always giving or always submitting to the other person gets tiring. It is give and take. And I know that a lot of us women have sacrificed a lot to have our men in our lives.

Some appreciation and adoration is free and doesn’t take much effort.

What is this way that these men can demand and take all the respect but don’t have to give it? This is not working with MOST women, not just American ones!

The idea of jumping up to make him food makes me feel like I would be reacting out of fear of his reaction.

He could just as easily do for himself. This way of thinking is so outdated and just immature. I am having the same issue myself, sadly and well, I don’t stay home all day and have had children, been raising them and had so much on my plate I don’t need my husband, who should help take care of me and should be concerned about my well being, stressing me out and flipping out over what and when I cook. Yes, women usually cook for their spouses and family but to just EXPECT it, to me, it just infantile.

This is such a depressing and intimidating way to feel. I think

I think so too, as others stated you deserve to be happy. The world is cruel and stressful enough as it is, to have to come home to this kind of B.S. is overwhelming. You need peace in your own home and with each other.

Did I say he started snapping pens and has started throwing things when he feels mad? He says in his culture if the wife was like I am, the husband would hit her.

WARNING! Well actually I would venture to say, since a lot of 3rd world countries are becoming more aware of domestic violence, that if he dared to hit you there, there still would be some repricussions.

Maybe not as stiff or strict as here but definitely women are sticking up for themselves more and more and getting more respect. My husband told me a married man could and would be removed from his home for domestic violence if the woman reported it. I worried about this “culture” thing with my husband and you know I don’t care what anyone says, I am seeing more and more instances of this happening with “certain” cultures. Individual yes, learned behavior yes, having this more acceptable in countries they are born and raised in YES YES AND YES!

[miss g 1]

that whole threatening to divorce and go after other women chestnut.. tsk tsk.. if ever ever ever.. my fiance makes the mistake of saying that to me.. i will proceed to throw all his clothes out the window.. and tell him to go do so... that is abuse, manipulation and what a WEAKASS MOFO would do.. emotional abuse is just as bad as physical..

if you arent happy tell him to JOG ON.. outa your life.. lifes too short to be playing Therapist.

[Hana_Lisa 5]

I also am going through similar situations like yourself. My problems are not completely resolved yet but I agree with other VJers that communication and compromises are the only two ways to a better marriage - although sometimes we could be so stubborn that we fail to do what needs to be done, especially when anger and resentment are involved. It is a long journey that requires tremendous willingness, understanding, awareness and cooperation. If both of you mutually desire to give it a chance, try counseling. It is always easier to have a mediator, at least there would be no yelling or threatening.

On being submissive, my personal experience attests that it does not work. I married to a culture where men expect women to play a certain role and strictly, which is very different from my own where men and women are equal. The more I behave submissively, the more my husband demands of me because this is how he is brought up. He talks down to his parents and nobody would say a thing about it. There was no single meal that his mother cooked he did not have complaints for. I can see where he is coming from but it does not mean I have to put up with that.

The bottom line is you both deserve to be happy. There is nothing wrong to walk away, regardless of immigration status. It is easier said than done now. I hope things work out for you, either way.

Edited February 25, 2009 by Hana_Lisa

[Der Bücherwurm 1]

Completely ignore the PI posters. They are obviously villagers. Keep the dog. Ship the childish husband back home on a cargo ship. Then stay single for a while and work on what makes you happy. It's far better to be alone than to wish you were.

[Hana_Lisa 5]

I also am going through similar situations like yourself. My problems are not completely resolved yet but I agree with other VJers that communication and compromises are the only two ways to a better marriage - although sometimes we could be so stubborn that we fail to do what needs to be done, especially when anger and resentment are involved. It is a long journey that requires tremendous willingness, understanding, awareness and cooperation. If both of you mutually desire to give it a chance, try counseling. It is always easier to have a mediator, at least there would be no yelling or threatening.

On being submissive, my personal experience attests that it does not work. I married to a culture where men expect women to play a certain role and strictly (my husband would blame me said it is my job and that I am not a woman when I carelessly missed cleaning the tiny soap plate in the bathroom), which is very different from my own where men and women are equal, no one has power over the other. The more I behave submissively, the more my husband demands of me because this is how he is brought up. He talks down to his parents and nobody would say a thing about it. There was no single meal that his mother cooked he did not have complaints for. I can see where he is coming from but it does not mean I have to put up with that.

The bottom line is you both deserve to be happy. There is nothing wrong to walk away, regardless of immigration status. It is easier said than done now. I hope things work out for you, either way.

(((OH sorry, for the double post. And I did not read through everything in your post... hence the general response))).

Edited February 25, 2009 by Hana_Lisa

[Ban Hammer 12,866]

Completely ignore the PI posters. They are obviously villagers. Keep the dog. Ship the childish husband back home on a cargo ship. Then stay single for a while and work on what makes you happy. It's far better to be alone than to wish you were.

[K-9 Visa 11]

What planet, er, country is your husband from?

[broma25 2]

Send you dog somewhere that is safe!!!! The dog does not need to be in this situation and is not in a position to remove itself. As a responsible person you need to!!

As for yourself, either call the cops and get him removed, or pack a bag and leave with the dog!

This man is a moron and I think you have put up with more than enough!!

Good Luck!

[broma25 2]

Send your dog somewhere that is safe!!!! The dog does not need to be in this situation and is not in a position to remove itself. As a responsible person you need to!!

As for yourself, either call the cops and get him removed, or pack a bag and leave with the dog!

This man is a moron and I think you have put up with more than enough!!

Good Luck!

[broma25 2]

Send your dog somewhere that is safe!!!! The dog does not need to be in this situation and is not in a position to remove itself. As a responsible person you need to!!

As for yourself, either call the cops and get him removed, or pack a bag and leave with the dog!

This man is a moron and I think you have put up with more than enough!!

Good Luck!