Note: Removing Inactive members from the Org Team

[jodee 30]

Kinda curious as to why this is STILL going on,..why doesn't it get dropped,..sooner people stop talking about it,..sooner topic go's away, less hostility=happier vj'ers

[pushbrk 13,914]

Kinda curious as to why this is STILL going on,..why doesn't it get dropped,..sooner people stop talking about it,..sooner topic go's away, less hostility=happier vj'ers

I'm guessing it hasn't been dropped because people still have things they want to say on the subject.

Just to clarify, I brought this up with the goal of having personal attacks on other members, by organizers, STOP. I dislike ANY personal attacks but I think when an "organizer" does it, the resulting reflection on the site is more severe than when a general member does. I think posts that include "you" statements in criticism of another member as their primary content, are harmful rather than helpful in the forums where members seek advice on the Visa Journey. When members see organizers doing this, they take it as an example of condoned behavior.

It is not my goal to manage the organizer's contributions beyond that one simply issue. I have no issue with how they do their organizing jobs.

If it were my site, Rebeccajo would lose her membership. It's not my site. It's not my mission to get her removed BECAUSE it's not my site and I know any such mission would be unsuccessful.

The Captain has indicated only the severe profane-like name calling personal attacks violate the TOS. I disagree but he's the Captain.

VJ members are going to feel badly about a lot of things to do with their visa journey. The worst things are unnecessary delays, rejected petitions and denied visas. I'm here to help minimize that. If I see that somebody needs to wise up in order to be successful, I'm going to continue to choose to tell them how I think they need to wise up to avoid one or more of the really BIG "fell badly) moments potentially in their future. If this doesn't sit well with them, so be it. It's better than the alternative I see them achieving. Self appointed admonishers can continue to beat their heads against walls complaining about how somebody's tender feelings might get hurt until they bleed. It doesn't make VJ a better place.

Whatever results from my original question in this thread is up to the Captain. It's his site to manage, not mine but as I often say, "Everybody's entitled to my opinion."

[Sinergy 3]

Kinda curious as to why this is STILL going on,..why doesn't it get dropped,..sooner people stop talking about it,..sooner topic go's away, less hostility=happier vj'ers

I'm guessing it hasn't been dropped because people still have things they want to say on the subject.

Just to clarify, I brought this up with the goal of having personal attacks on other members, by organizers, STOP. I dislike ANY personal attacks but I think when an "organizer" does it, the resulting reflection on the site is more severe than when a general member does. I think posts that include "you" statements in criticism of another member as their primary content, are harmful rather than helpful in the forums where members seek advice on the Visa Journey. When members see organizers doing this, they take it as an example of condoned behavior.

It is not my goal to manage the organizer's contributions beyond that one simply issue. I have no issue with how they do their organizing jobs.

If it were my site, Rebeccajo would lose her membership. It's not my site. It's not my mission to get her removed BECAUSE it's not my site and I know any such mission would be unsuccessful.

The Captain has indicated only the severe profane-like name calling personal attacks violate the TOS. I disagree but he's the Captain.

VJ members are going to feel badly about a lot of things to do with their visa journey. The worst things are unnecessary delays, rejected petitions and denied visas. I'm here to help minimize that. If I see that somebody needs to wise up in order to be successful, I'm going to continue to choose to tell them how I think they need to wise up to avoid one or more of the really BIG "fell badly) moments potentially in their future. If this doesn't sit well with them, so be it. It's better than the alternative I see them achieving. Self appointed admonishers can continue to beat their heads against walls complaining about how somebody's tender feelings might get hurt until they bleed. It doesn't make VJ a better place.

Whatever results from my original question in this thread is up to the Captain. It's his site to manage, not mine but as I often say, "Everybody's entitled to my opinion."

first bold: a personal attack on becca

second bold: so its ok for you to insult and attack members but not for others

pushbrk...as i see it, you should stop before your ahead. you may be good and full of infor on immigration, even i will admit your very intelligent on this subject, but you have very poor ppl skills and should stay away from anything other than advising of immigration needs.

[pushbrk 13,914]

Kinda curious as to why this is STILL going on,..why doesn't it get dropped,..sooner people stop talking about it,..sooner topic go's away, less hostility=happier vj'ers

I'm guessing it hasn't been dropped because people still have things they want to say on the subject.

Just to clarify, I brought this up with the goal of having personal attacks on other members, by organizers, STOP. I dislike ANY personal attacks but I think when an "organizer" does it, the resulting reflection on the site is more severe than when a general member does. I think posts that include "you" statements in criticism of another member as their primary content, are harmful rather than helpful in the forums where members seek advice on the Visa Journey. When members see organizers doing this, they take it as an example of condoned behavior.

It is not my goal to manage the organizer's contributions beyond that one simply issue. I have no issue with how they do their organizing jobs.

If it were my site, Rebeccajo would lose her membership. It's not my site. It's not my mission to get her removed BECAUSE it's not my site and I know any such mission would be unsuccessful.

The Captain has indicated only the severe profane-like name calling personal attacks violate the TOS. I disagree but he's the Captain.

VJ members are going to feel badly about a lot of things to do with their visa journey. The worst things are unnecessary delays, rejected petitions and denied visas. I'm here to help minimize that. If I see that somebody needs to wise up in order to be successful, I'm going to continue to choose to tell them how I think they need to wise up to avoid one or more of the really BIG "fell badly) moments potentially in their future. If this doesn't sit well with them, so be it. It's better than the alternative I see them achieving. Self appointed admonishers can continue to beat their heads against walls complaining about how somebody's tender feelings might get hurt until they bleed. It doesn't make VJ a better place.

Whatever results from my original question in this thread is up to the Captain. It's his site to manage, not mine but as I often say, "Everybody's entitled to my opinion."

first bold: a personal attack on becca

second bold: so its ok for you to insult and attack members but not for others

pushbrk...as i see it, you should stop before your ahead. you may be good and full of infor on immigration, even i will admit your very intelligent on this subject, but you have very poor ppl skills and should stay away from anything other than advising of immigration needs.

No, it is not an attack on anybody. There's nothing at all personal in the statement. It doesn't even contain the words "you" or "is" or "does" etc. The statement is about what I would do and is included in a paragraph indicating it isn't up to me. It's an opinion about a consequence of actions discussed earlier and clearly displayed in this thread.

Apparently there are some differences of opinion on what constitutes a personal attack. I can live with that.

[Sinergy 3]

Kinda curious as to why this is STILL going on,..why doesn't it get dropped,..sooner people stop talking about it,..sooner topic go's away, less hostility=happier vj'ers

I'm guessing it hasn't been dropped because people still have things they want to say on the subject.

Just to clarify, I brought this up with the goal of having personal attacks on other members, by organizers, STOP. I dislike ANY personal attacks but I think when an "organizer" does it, the resulting reflection on the site is more severe than when a general member does. I think posts that include "you" statements in criticism of another member as their primary content, are harmful rather than helpful in the forums where members seek advice on the Visa Journey. When members see organizers doing this, they take it as an example of condoned behavior.

It is not my goal to manage the organizer's contributions beyond that one simply issue. I have no issue with how they do their organizing jobs.

If it were my site, Rebeccajo would lose her membership. It's not my site. It's not my mission to get her removed BECAUSE it's not my site and I know any such mission would be unsuccessful.

The Captain has indicated only the severe profane-like name calling personal attacks violate the TOS. I disagree but he's the Captain.

VJ members are going to feel badly about a lot of things to do with their visa journey. The worst things are unnecessary delays, rejected petitions and denied visas. I'm here to help minimize that. If I see that somebody needs to wise up in order to be successful, I'm going to continue to choose to tell them how I think they need to wise up to avoid one or more of the really BIG "fell badly) moments potentially in their future. If this doesn't sit well with them, so be it. It's better than the alternative I see them achieving. Self appointed admonishers can continue to beat their heads against walls complaining about how somebody's tender feelings might get hurt until they bleed. It doesn't make VJ a better place.

Whatever results from my original question in this thread is up to the Captain. It's his site to manage, not mine but as I often say, "Everybody's entitled to my opinion."

first bold: a personal attack on becca

second bold: so its ok for you to insult and attack members but not for others

pushbrk...as i see it, you should stop before your ahead. you may be good and full of infor on immigration, even i will admit your very intelligent on this subject, but you have very poor ppl skills and should stay away from anything other than advising of immigration needs.

No, it is not an attack on anybody. There's nothing at all personal in the statement. It doesn't even contain the words "you" or "is" or "does" etc. The statement is about what I would do and is included in a paragraph indicating it isn't up to me. It's an opinion about a consequence of actions discussed earlier and clearly displayed in this thread.

Apparently there are some differences of opinion on what constitutes a personal attack. I can live with that.

it is personal, you named an actual member, and plain out told her if this was your site youd have her membership removed, it was an attack and it was personal.

[pushbrk 13,914]

Kinda curious as to why this is STILL going on,..why doesn't it get dropped,..sooner people stop talking about it,..sooner topic go's away, less hostility=happier vj'ers

I'm guessing it hasn't been dropped because people still have things they want to say on the subject.

Just to clarify, I brought this up with the goal of having personal attacks on other members, by organizers, STOP. I dislike ANY personal attacks but I think when an "organizer" does it, the resulting reflection on the site is more severe than when a general member does. I think posts that include "you" statements in criticism of another member as their primary content, are harmful rather than helpful in the forums where members seek advice on the Visa Journey. When members see organizers doing this, they take it as an example of condoned behavior.

It is not my goal to manage the organizer's contributions beyond that one simply issue. I have no issue with how they do their organizing jobs.

If it were my site, Rebeccajo would lose her membership. It's not my site. It's not my mission to get her removed BECAUSE it's not my site and I know any such mission would be unsuccessful.

The Captain has indicated only the severe profane-like name calling personal attacks violate the TOS. I disagree but he's the Captain.

VJ members are going to feel badly about a lot of things to do with their visa journey. The worst things are unnecessary delays, rejected petitions and denied visas. I'm here to help minimize that. If I see that somebody needs to wise up in order to be successful, I'm going to continue to choose to tell them how I think they need to wise up to avoid one or more of the really BIG "fell badly) moments potentially in their future. If this doesn't sit well with them, so be it. It's better than the alternative I see them achieving. Self appointed admonishers can continue to beat their heads against walls complaining about how somebody's tender feelings might get hurt until they bleed. It doesn't make VJ a better place.

Whatever results from my original question in this thread is up to the Captain. It's his site to manage, not mine but as I often say, "Everybody's entitled to my opinion."

first bold: a personal attack on becca

second bold: so its ok for you to insult and attack members but not for others

pushbrk...as i see it, you should stop before your ahead. you may be good and full of infor on immigration, even i will admit your very intelligent on this subject, but you have very poor ppl skills and should stay away from anything other than advising of immigration needs.

No, it is not an attack on anybody. There's nothing at all personal in the statement. It doesn't even contain the words "you" or "is" or "does" etc. The statement is about what I would do and is included in a paragraph indicating it isn't up to me. It's an opinion about a consequence of actions discussed earlier and clearly displayed in this thread.

Apparently there are some differences of opinion on what constitutes a personal attack. I can live with that.

it is personal, you named an actual member, and plain out told her if this was your site youd have her membership removed, it was an attack and it was personal.

[TBoneTX 48,126]

Come on now. That's an incredibly broad interpretation. 80% of the VJ population would be guilty of "personal attacks" under that very wide net. I understand you're feeling stung by the criticism that organizers are taking, but honestly, this is picking nits of the most microscopic variety.

Now...who wants pie?

I agree with Mox, and, given the nature of this thread, the most appropriate answer to his question would be... uh... rhubarb.

[Marilyn. 340]

I am not sure what kind of authority some organizers are stepping over because we don't really have any authority.. all we can do is move threads.. and if you don't like where a thread was moved just PM a mod or Ewok and they can move it back.. no big deal ..

[Ban Hammer 14,582]

I am not sure what kind of authority some organizers are stepping over because we don't really have any authority.. all we can do is move threads.. and if you don't like where a thread was moved just PM a mod or Ewok and they can move it back.. no big deal ..

and that's absolutely unbearable to some apparently.

[Sinergy 3]

it is personal, you named an actual member, and plain out told her if this was your site youd have her membership removed, it was an attack and it was personal.

Come on now. That's an incredibly broad interpretation. 80% of the VJ population would be guilty of "personal attacks" under that very wide net. I understand you're feeling stung by the criticism that organizers are taking, but honestly, this is picking nits of the most microscopic variety.

Now...who wants pie?

you both want to yell and cry about personal attacks, but then do it, and i called it out, dont try and tip-toe around it after he does it himself.

bc he didnt say "you" he actually USED THE NAME of a member, he personally attacked her, had it been me, or god forbid charles, or any other organizer who sd that about you or push, you both would have pushed that report button.

[TBoneTX 48,126]

Rhubarb pie, anyone?

[Ban Hammer 14,582]

it is personal, you named an actual member, and plain out told her if this was your site youd have her membership removed, it was an attack and it was personal.

Come on now. That's an incredibly broad interpretation. 80% of the VJ population would be guilty of "personal attacks" under that very wide net. I understand you're feeling stung by the criticism that organizers are taking, but honestly, this is picking nits of the most microscopic variety.

Now...who wants pie?

you both want to yell and cry about personal attacks, but then do it, and i called it out, dont try and tip-toe around it after he does it himself.

bc he didnt say "you" he actually USED THE NAME of a member, he personally attacked her, had it been me, or god forbid charles, or any other organizer who sd that about you or push, you both would have pushed that report button.

if it was me, that would be alright. after all, i'm an evil organizer!

[Sinergy 3]

you both want to yell and cry about personal attacks, but then do it, and i called it out, dont try and tip-toe around it after he does it himself.

bc he didnt say "you" he actually USED THE NAME of a member, he personally attacked her, had it been me, or god forbid charles, or any other organizer who sd that about you or push, you both would have pushed that report button.

Sin, you are being absolutely fracking ridiculous now. If you think he's making a personal attack against RJ, then press Report. If you think this post is a personal attack, press Report. You are beyond reason at this point.

Strawberry rhubarb for me please, TX.

It doesnt matter how you think about it, he whines about personal attacks, and then contiues to make them himself. How am i beyond reason? bc i dont think you and push deserve some kind of special treatment on this subject? bc you think if you say it in a calm non rude way its not an attack. IMO you and him are the ones beyond reason as if anyone disagrees with you, that person is either out of their mind or just nuts.

[TBoneTX 48,126]

Sin, you are being absolutely fracking ridiculous now. You are beyond reason at this point. Strawberry rhubarb for me please, TX.

Must agree 100% with Mox on this one. Out of strawberry, but raspberries seem to be flying through the air... is it about time to close this thread? Edited December 22, 2008 by TBoneTX

[john & jean 37]

People may not like my direct style and they may "feel" put down by my pointed advice about how to have a successful visa process but you will not see me directly personally insulting them.

I have never seen pushbrk insult another member in the manner that has been raised as accusation.

When I see that he has replied to a post, I intentionally read that thread so that I can learn something, and because I know that his replies will be concise. This applies even if the thread is otherwise of no interest to me. I would be far less interested in VJ if he did NOT post as often and as directly as he does.

And, "feel bad" versus "feel badly" is more a matter of form than meaning. However, I interpret "feel badly" to mean "using one's sense of touch in a less capable or efficient manner than another does."

T-Bone, you and Krikit have both said you find nothing wrong with Push's style. Fine and good.

But I've seen plenty of comments in threads where members indicated their feelings were either hurt or they felt put down by him. And I've seen him go after members who dared to disagree with him - especially female members.

Now, while this kind of behavior really does get to me, I can put up with it until he runs crying to Ewok about being persecuted. As I said before in this thread, if you can't take it then don't dish it out. I can give as good as I get and will continue to do so - Organizer or not. Perhaps I'm not really very smart - who knows. There are certain personalities that are just clinically toxic and the only way to save yourself from them is to eject them from your life. I'd probably be better off if I just learned to ignore him. Hard to do when he's pushing people around. Hard to do.

You can disagree with me if you like. I really don't care. I know what I've read and I'm not confused by it.

I too, always read anything that push,writes! Yes, he is in a Pissy mood sometimes, WHO ISN'T???

When I needed advice he was always there, and spot on. I am more than willing to overlook a bad mood, to get that!!!

My case was complicated, my wife is here!! THANKS TO PUSH.....