Rob and Jill

Julian...
You have no idea how much I am biting my tongue right now, because quite frankly you are being a jerk to me for no reason.
How many times out of ALL THE PEOPLE ON VJ have I offered help and advice to your fiance? How many times have I said try this or do that to help you both? HOW MANY?
If you refuse to get the point of my asking for proof that getting out your little black book helped, then refuse to do it. I refuse to try to talk sense into people who have used my advice in the past, but all of a sudden have decided I am picking on them for no reason. Quite frankly with the number of times I have backed you BOTH up, and tried to help on numerous occassions when other people here wouldn't have pressed one single button to answer anything either of you have asked, I think you've just managed to make me see I have wasted any and all effort with ever trying to help the both of you. Thank you for making that clear. I'll refrain in the future from ever lifting a finger in your defense or advice again, it's not worth it.

Julian...
You have no idea how much I am biting my tongue right now, because quite frankly you are being a jerk to me for no reason.
How many times out of ALL THE PEOPLE ON VJ have I offered help and advice to your fiance? How many times have I said try this or do that to help you both? HOW MANY?
If you refuse to get the point of my asking for proof that getting out your little black book helped, then refuse to do it. I refuse to try to talk sense into people who have used my advice in the past, but all of a sudden have decided I am picking on them for no reason. Quite frankly with the number of times I have backed you BOTH up, and tried to help on numerous occassions when other people here wouldn't have pressed one single button to answer anything either of you have asked, I think you've just managed to make me see I have wasted any and all effort with ever trying to help the both of you. Thank you for making that clear. I'll refrain in the future from ever lifting a finger in your defense or advice again, it's not worth it.

Julian...
You have no idea how much I am biting my tongue right now, because quite frankly you are being a jerk to me for no reason.
How many times out of ALL THE PEOPLE ON VJ have I offered help and advice to your fiance? How many times have I said try this or do that to help you both? HOW MANY?
If you refuse to get the point of my asking for proof that getting out your little black book helped, then refuse to do it. I refuse to try to talk sense into people who have used my advice in the past, but all of a sudden have decided I am picking on them for no reason. Quite frankly with the number of times I have backed you BOTH up, and tried to help on numerous occassions when other people here wouldn't have pressed one single button to answer anything either of you have asked, I think you've just managed to make me see I have wasted any and all effort with ever trying to help the both of you. Thank you for making that clear. I'll refrain in the future from ever lifting a finger in your defense or advice again, it's not worth it.

Julian...
You have no idea how much I am biting my tongue right now, because quite frankly you are being a jerk to me for no reason.
How many times out of ALL THE PEOPLE ON VJ have I offered help and advice to your fiance? How many times have I said try this or do that to help you both? HOW MANY?
If you refuse to get the point of my asking for proof that getting out your little black book helped, then refuse to do it. I refuse to try to talk sense into people who have used my advice in the past, but all of a sudden have decided I am picking on them for no reason. Quite frankly with the number of times I have backed you BOTH up, and tried to help on numerous occassions when other people here wouldn't have pressed one single button to answer anything either of you have asked, I think you've just managed to make me see I have wasted any and all effort with ever trying to help the both of you. Thank you for making that clear. I'll refrain in the future from ever lifting a finger in your defense or advice again, it's not worth it.

It is in no way delusional to say that if someone is stepping out of the box and it works, to show everyone else how it was done. It is in no way delusional to request proof that his statements have in fact helped him in some way. My stating that the information needs to be proven is NO DIFFERENT then any of the other conversations on the forum that go as such:
You're wrong
No, I'm not
Yes, you are and here is the LINK TO THE PROOF.
I've made my point, you agree with it, and if you don't like that, perhaps that is your issue and not mine.

We should just all sit back and wait on the letter to be scanned in (Removing personal information of course)from the MP's office stating exactly how they called the State Department and got them to make a change. Until then this whole thread is just a pi$$ing contest of who is right. Quite frankly, I agree with everyone BUT Julian and Melissa, but I say we sit back and wait on the proof. I can't WAIT to see it! Please feel free to SHOW US ALL PROOF that the MP's office has done something relevant to help your perfectly normal case be "bumped".

We should just all sit back and wait on the letter to be scanned in (Removing personal information of course)from the MP's office stating exactly how they called the State Department and got them to make a change. Until then this whole thread is just a pi$$ing contest of who is right. Quite frankly, I agree with everyone BUT Julian and Melissa, but I say we sit back and wait on the proof. I can't WAIT to see it! Please feel free to SHOW US ALL PROOF that the MP's office has done something relevant to help your perfectly normal case be "bumped".

*chants and dances*
Interview tomorrow Interview tomorrow!!!!!

Stop playing the victim, Melissa.
You said in the other post that I am able to give sympathy to others but not you. I have given sympathy to you in the past. You didn't appreciate it, and your fiance attacked me and told me that I was wrong for saying what I had said. Why should I continue to attempt to help you when it gets thrown back in my face?
You asked why we couldn't all be civil. You might ask your fiance the same question. He is often uncivil in his posts. You cannot expect people to be nice to the two of you when you constantly complain, never listen to advice that many other people give and when your fiance attacks every one who responds to your posts. To expect anything else would be to expect the rest of us to behave like saints while the two of you behave like spoiled children.

Yes, because checking with NATO before becoming involved in a war is the EXACT same thing as waiting in line for immigration papers...HAHA HAAAAA HAAAAA AHOOOOOOOOO HAAAAAA! Julian, I have not had a laugh that good in awhile. I also adore that fact that you say before "he invaded Iraq"...because there have been 0 British troops there? I'm not even a fan of good ole' George W. and that statement is absurd.
Absurdity! When I send someone mail they should absolutely drop everything they are doing and handle MY MAIL FIRST. What is this world coming to when what I WANT does not get handled the minute I submit paperwork??!!! How dare they make ME wait when it took over 2 years of getting fiances and life ready for this process?
Melissa and Julian come off it.

And let us give you a bit of advice. When you make it blantantly clear that you are not interested in doing the research yourself and come here begging for answers, the LEAST you can do is be polite to the people who give them to you. You came here and made a post with very little clarity to your situation, asked a question, and then very much came across RUDE to the people who answered you because you didn't like what they told you.
I have never said this to anyone on this forum as of yet, but you've earned it. GO READ THE GUIDES.

You keep coming back after you've said you're done several times, so yes, I think so.
If you don't care, read my post above again. Let it sink in and move on. I certianly have no tolerance for your brand of nonsense.

And let us give you a bit of advice. When you make it blantantly clear that you are not interested in doing the research yourself and come here begging for answers, the LEAST you can do is be polite to the people who give them to you. You came here and made a post with very little clarity to your situation, asked a question, and then very much came across RUDE to the people who answered you because you didn't like what they told you.
I have never said this to anyone on this forum as of yet, but you've earned it. GO READ THE GUIDES.

Yes, because checking with NATO before becoming involved in a war is the EXACT same thing as waiting in line for immigration papers...HAHA HAAAAA HAAAAA AHOOOOOOOOO HAAAAAA! Julian, I have not had a laugh that good in awhile. I also adore that fact that you say before "he invaded Iraq"...because there have been 0 British troops there? I'm not even a fan of good ole' George W. and that statement is absurd.
Absurdity! When I send someone mail they should absolutely drop everything they are doing and handle MY MAIL FIRST. What is this world coming to when what I WANT does not get handled the minute I submit paperwork??!!! How dare they make ME wait when it took over 2 years of getting fiances and life ready for this process?
Melissa and Julian come off it.

And let us give you a bit of advice. When you make it blantantly clear that you are not interested in doing the research yourself and come here begging for answers, the LEAST you can do is be polite to the people who give them to you. You came here and made a post with very little clarity to your situation, asked a question, and then very much came across RUDE to the people who answered you because you didn't like what they told you.
I have never said this to anyone on this forum as of yet, but you've earned it. GO READ THE GUIDES.

And let us give you a bit of advice. When you make it blantantly clear that you are not interested in doing the research yourself and come here begging for answers, the LEAST you can do is be polite to the people who give them to you. You came here and made a post with very little clarity to your situation, asked a question, and then very much came across RUDE to the people who answered you because you didn't like what they told you.
I have never said this to anyone on this forum as of yet, but you've earned it. GO READ THE GUIDES.

Wow!
This is like the thrid time in the last week or so I've posted this, but here I go again!
Don't count on anything with immigration being quick. EVER!
Just because it HAS been taking 3-4 months for SOME people to get through does not mean this trend with continue at all! It was a "5 month wait" when I started the process, and we're on the 8th month.
If you're the person moving to the states, go through your clothes and start donating what you don't wear/want/need. (And depending on where you're moving, we could probably tell you how many of those wintery clothes you're REALLY going to need) Start packing things that you want to keep that have been in your closet for more than 1 year untouched...that way you won't miss it.
Do yourself a favor for all of your well meaning friends and make an immigration mailing list. For everyone who wants to know about it, sit down and send out a weekly email or where you are in the process, so everyone knows how long it takes and they won't constantly ask.
If you are the US Citizen, start cleaning and making room for your spouse. Clean out your closets, clean off some knick knack shelves, give your future husband/wife space in the home you'll share. Get some household projects knocked out of the way, or start an herb garden.

Wow!
This is like the thrid time in the last week or so I've posted this, but here I go again!
Don't count on anything with immigration being quick. EVER!
Just because it HAS been taking 3-4 months for SOME people to get through does not mean this trend with continue at all! It was a "5 month wait" when I started the process, and we're on the 8th month.
If you're the person moving to the states, go through your clothes and start donating what you don't wear/want/need. (And depending on where you're moving, we could probably tell you how many of those wintery clothes you're REALLY going to need) Start packing things that you want to keep that have been in your closet for more than 1 year untouched...that way you won't miss it.
Do yourself a favor for all of your well meaning friends and make an immigration mailing list. For everyone who wants to know about it, sit down and send out a weekly email or where you are in the process, so everyone knows how long it takes and they won't constantly ask.
If you are the US Citizen, start cleaning and making room for your spouse. Clean out your closets, clean off some knick knack shelves, give your future husband/wife space in the home you'll share. Get some household projects knocked out of the way, or start an herb garden.

Unless it's absolutely impossible to get an original letter, why would you risk getting an RFE? The instructions clearly say "original statement from you and your fiance(e)". Before you file you have effectively unlimited time to gather what you need. If you file and get an RFE then you've got a limited window of time to respond, or they'll deny the petition and you'll lose the fees.
People have filed and been approved without the letter, or used a photocopied or faxed letter. Others have gotten RFE's when it was obvious a signature wasn't original. You can roll the dice and take your chances, or you can get the original letter. Unless you live in the Antarctic, it shouldn't take more than a few weeks to send an original document.

What is the deal with making new threads? It's not like the UK forum is super busy anyway. The last thread on the first page wasn't touched since August 16th. Making a new thread here isn't hiding "more relevant" ones. You're getting upset over an internet forum. Chill out. Dodi gets your point - she just doesn't care. A lot of the other threads are only being bumped with "Congrats!" and other 1-3 word posts that add nothing relevant for most. That's fine for them. I, for one, like seeing new threads and new developments, even if it's a little reiterated, with comments other than simple gestures of goodwill.

Captain, could you create an option for moderators to be able to block or ban a particular member from a thread in the event that they are continuously and deliberately disregarding the TOS? This would be a better solution than simply locking the thread if such violations don't call for an outright suspension from the entire site.
Right now, it is quite easy to get a thread locked by just coming onto a thread and being disruptive, and currently the standard response from moderation is to give general warnings followed by locking the thread where it is taking place. However, the problem isn't with the thread itself but with a one or maybe a few members who derail an otherwise meaningful discussion.

Mox,
That would require EVERYONE participating in the change. If half of us want a change, and half don't, it's going to be very slow going. You also have people who are seriously disruptive on purpose (as you guys keep mentioning in other threads) who would keep posting attacks and baiting posts just because they CAN. Sometimes the button pushing is the only way to stop them. I'll be the first to agree that discretion should be used when making the call to block someone from a thread, but when people like those you guys have been mentioning pop up specifically to 'pounce' on a juicy thread, that thread ban might be the way to go.

I have tried to stay out of these threads, because it does very little good trying to convince people who think they are right, but as I am Dodi's other half, and I have had to endure the rhetoric, so I am now wading in.
First off, please note her name. Just because you aren't familiar with it, doesn't mean you should disrespect her by altering it. Getting a name right takes no effort at all, so lets not pretend we didn't see it correctly. After all, if you can miss someone's name, perhaps there is a lot more you missed in their post.
Secondly, as an Englishman, I know how tempting it is to do nothing when things are wrong. We don't enjoy complaining, and we put up with bad service because of it. If the embassies are so backlogged that they can't answer a phone without the whole system being impacted adversely, then they need more staff. If anything we should be calling them more often to show them how inadequately staffed they are. We have no choice but to go through their system. It's not like we can go to a different embassy if we get bad service. So it is absolutely correct that we demand the best service at all times. And God knows, the amount the whole thing costs, you'd think they could afford to have a memebr of staff permanently answering enquiries like these.
Do not be so naive as to think changes cannot and should not be made. If something is wrong, then fix it. Don't complain that it's always been like this and it will never change. I am really not bothered what has happened in the past. I am only interested in how things are now. As VisaJourney gets more and more attention, visitors and members it has no choice but to change. And that should mean some method to bar or at least withdraw individual comments that are derogatory, hurtful, unnecessary or off subject. And frequent offenders should have their status removed.
In my past vocation I have had direct contact with bullying in all it's forms, including the recent rise of internet bullying. Anonymous, and incidious, this form of gang bullying can be seen everywhere from Facebook to sadly VisaJourney. Most bully's don't have a clue their behaviour is hurtful, most bully's feel that their victim is weak, or lacking in something, which is why the victim gets picked on in the first place. Most bully's believe this is their place, and others have no right being there, especially if they are new. Most bully's think nothing will ever change. And most bully's think it's all just a joke, and people should lighten up.
This site has had its fair share of bullying, and it doesn't take very much research to see who they are.
It serves no common good to bully on this site. The people after information are worried and nervous. Many of them have spent years trying to be together with their partners, and they need support and help. If you cannot say what you want in a way that is respectful then you should keep it to yourself. Always.
I hope that the moderating team look very carefully into the powers they have to stamp out these clique of bullying. I really would like to see a system that allows people to rewrite posts that get legitamate complaints, so that threads are protected, and readers can add without fear of being told they are to receive "smack-downs" or any other ridiculous and childish bullying technique.
As a resource, VisaJourney is invaluable, but the behaviour of individuals can and should be monitored and changed. And if you believe you don't want to be a member of that kind of forum, then go start your own, where you can enjoy as much bullying as you like. VisaJourney is for everyone, not for the precious priviledged few.
Beeps... Get it right please

Without offense or denigration to various senior members of the UK forum, all of whom I like and respect in multiple ways: bravo to Kathryn, Jill, and Darnell for points made in this thread.

Thanks. That is a valid question and generally it is what I do try to do. I try to keep a thread going as long as it is useful, removing the offending posts and returning the useful information through 'cut and paste' back to the thread. It takes some time but for a good and useful thread, it is worth making that effort. Sometimes, however - and in this particular thread - it is not necessarily 'what' has been said that is only the problem but 'how' it has been said. For the majority of the posts it was virtually impossible to remove the 'tone' of the posts in order to retain the useful information. It would have required several hours work of cutting and pasting and editing to return any of the useful material to that thread in such a way that the tone was not apparent. When a thread is like that, there are other avenues of useful information available that do not require such intensive surgery that it really becomes an unnecessary exercise.
Sometimes, if we are able to intercede early enough, yes, a thread can be salvaged through warnings and removal of offending posts. Unfortunately, we don't always get notified of the thread when a problem is just starting. Often - and in this case - the problem is already full blown by the time it is reported to us. In this case, it was the request from the OP to remove the thread that brought it to our attention. It is one of the liabilities of VJ moderation that we are not paid, full time moderators who spend our working hours patrolling the forum for offending posts and TOS violations, but are part time volunteers who respond to reported violations and the occasional problems that we stumble across during out own use of VJ as members. We would be better able to intervene in a more timely way and perhaps enable a thread to recover if we were able to patrol and find problems earlier but that just isn't feasible under the current set-up.
While it is possible that if we had been able to intervene earlier the thread would not have degenerated as it did, I am not really sure that it would have made a difference in this case. The posters responded to the poster and not to the question, and the first 'attack' came almost immediately. The question was not, in fact, answered for quite a few posts as the posters were more concerned about telling the OP what they thought of her for asking the question than of providing her with the requested information.
If people wish to have their useful information remain in a thread it is an easy enough matter - they just need to take the time to word their post in such a way that it is helpful, rather than a hurtful - regardless what they think of the poster.