Nik+Heather

Some of the phrasings in this thread have been pretty harsh. No one in love appreciates having their relationship called into question. But, I think kenny's right from an overall point of view. And there's a lot of perfectly needless "Poor victimized me!!!!" in this thread.......I know online couples can feel pretty defensive sometimes (we are, I've felt it) but get a grip on it, especially here - because a lot of us are in that same boat. I've learned to own and embrace our relationship and how it evolved. The more you play up and the harder you defend the unusual-ness, the stranger and more suspicious it feels to 3rd parties, and the cycle continues. Treat your relationship as normal and true, and so will others.
There are a lot of people who feel like they are in love based on their online relationships. One day they meet, and sometimes all their dreams come true. Sometimes it doesn't work out. On VJ, we don't hear from that second outcome because they never make it this far, but they are out there. And, until you do meet, you'll never know which side you're on! I think it's really great that our relationships which started out online came to such beautiful fruition when we all met in person, but to assume that anyone who feels in love in a virtual relationship will absolutely just keep growing when they meet in person is just silly.

Mail the forms, hand carry the documents. Forms being things that you fill out and return, documents being things which you do not write on - like birth certs, police certs etc. If you like, you could copy them and then attach them, but I wouldn't let the originals of those get into the mail. No sir!
They have recently made some changes, so maybe the DS-2001 is the checklist? That's what the thing we call the 'checklist' was intended to do - it says something like, I have collected the following required evidence, and I am ready for my interview, right?
I looked up that form, and that's almost exactly what it says. heh. I tried to follow the links on here to remind me of what forms and such were needed, but honestly this is one of the big holes in my understanding of the process. Nik pretty much did the research and consulate part on his own.

I think such a forum would simply be a scab to be picked at, personally, and has nothing to do with the purpose of VJ. What do personality issues between members have to do with helping people through their immigration process?
On another note, being lately the target of a removed post - those emails when people reply to your post also make for good scab-picking. If I hadn't been emailed, I wouldn't have seen this person's removed reply!!

I would suggest that when you know the case has arrived at the consulate, that you download the Packet 3 from the website to be certain that your receive your appointment package (packet 4). The DS-2100, which is part of Packet 3, is the beneficiary contact information form. It asks for address, phone number, email, etc. so that the appointment package arrives at the correct location.
You could also try calling the Dept of State after you have received the NOA2 and your consulate case #. They won't know about your case before that. There's really no reason to change the beneficiary's address during the USCIS phase as all correspondence with them takes place after the NOA2 and NVC.
Good luck!

Hello Gemmie..
Your story is a wonderful story about sacrifice and doing whatever it took to be with your Significant other.. I am not sure how you compared my statements to your situation.. What you did is what most people in-love would do.. I've always felt my relationship was the most important thing in my life...
What I am going to say next will knock most of you off your chair and everyone will send me nasty responses, but here it is.. "Butterflies and Strong Desires" doesn't result in a lasting relationhsip... It's a good start, but other stuff also needs to be there to fortify the relationship. Compatiblty has a lot to do with how two people think and act in the less than perfect situations. Those situations cant be evaluated without spending time together..
So, that said, don't you see the diference between your sitation and the Original Posters Situation? You felt like you just had to be with your fiancees, and she didn't want to because she couldn't handle the separation afterwards. That is not a good reason and can't possibly know how someone really is until you meet. I've known many wonderful (Absolutely Wonderful) people all over the world, but we weren't necessarily marriage marraige material, doesn't make her a bad person or me a bad person, just not compatible...
I think it's wonderful and most of the stories you hear in this thread are heart warming about how people meet and feel something special. But the jury is still out on how that "feeling" relates to a Successful Relationship.. Sure all the butterflies are there and the desires, but when it comes down to the tough times and enduring long periods of hardship, are the butterflies still there and does BOTH members of the relationship contribute equally to getting through tough times? these are things you can't know until you've been together.. Anyone can say the right things and show the right emotions from 3000 miles away, but it's a diferent story when you live with someone day after day enduring all of lifes chalenges and realities. Then you realize what people are made of..
Those of you with the wonderful srories of how you met and felt immediately in-love, thats great, but really doesn't have a thing to do with what my point that the OP suggested she was in-love and never met.. The most dangerous relationship advise someone can give is to do it because it worked for me.. That's not rational, it's cool to say it, but it simply isn't sound advise.. Sound Advise is to take time to get to know someone before jumping into any serious commitments including the K-1..
How many times do we VJ'rs hear about K1 Applicants withdrawing thier petitions or cancelling the VISA because the Relationship failed.. If you would have advised them early on, they would have all said the same thing, "we are in love and we know we're in love".. K-1's Petitions are supposed to be for relationships that are already certain to get married.. We've seen here on VJ that isn't alway the case.. Some feel it's a try before you buy then if it doesn't work out, ship'm back.. It's true some relationships fail after a K-1 POE becuase of Homesickness, and that is a valid reason, but otherwise, K1 is not a "try before you buy" visa..
So that being said, the Relationship needs to be established before considering the K1 Petition.. If you review my Timeline, I Met Maritza 2 years before I proposed, then waited another year to start the K1 Paperwork.. I don't suggest that's for everyone, it was something we did that worked for us...
Butterflies and "Knowing Your in-love" alone, simply does not result in life long relationships. Those are "time tested" and "Trial and Tribulation" tested to see how both partners work together to manage life.. The rest of it is absolutely cinderella and Fairy Tale stuff... It's irresposible and irrational, and if it's something any of you want to risk, more power to you...
And I do remember reading that Cinderella was divorced months later..

Some of the phrasings in this thread have been pretty harsh. No one in love appreciates having their relationship called into question. But, I think kenny's right from an overall point of view. And there's a lot of perfectly needless "Poor victimized me!!!!" in this thread.......I know online couples can feel pretty defensive sometimes (we are, I've felt it) but get a grip on it, especially here - because a lot of us are in that same boat. I've learned to own and embrace our relationship and how it evolved. The more you play up and the harder you defend the unusual-ness, the stranger and more suspicious it feels to 3rd parties, and the cycle continues. Treat your relationship as normal and true, and so will others.
There are a lot of people who feel like they are in love based on their online relationships. One day they meet, and sometimes all their dreams come true. Sometimes it doesn't work out. On VJ, we don't hear from that second outcome because they never make it this far, but they are out there. And, until you do meet, you'll never know which side you're on! I think it's really great that our relationships which started out online came to such beautiful fruition when we all met in person, but to assume that anyone who feels in love in a virtual relationship will absolutely just keep growing when they meet in person is just silly.

Hi Deb!
I'm the Heather part of Nik+Heather, and I'm the USC from AZ as well.
I'll add my vote to the others who have tried to warn you away from the K-3 visa. Maybe you have found the K-3 forum, and you should read the links that Darnell has posted over and over and over in there regarding the changes to the processing at the National Visa Center (that's where your approved petition goes after USCIS). Those changes were made several months ago, in February of this year. If your lawyer hasn't caught up by now, then they aren't really doing their job. There are a lot of references out there that the K-3 takes a shorter amount of time than the immigrant spousal visa, a CR-1. This information is outdated. The USCIS has been approving the I-130 (spousal petition) and I-129f (non-immigrant immediate relative petition - the additional thing you file to get a K-3) on the same day for a long time. Plus, the CR-1 is a vastly superior visa - you go straight to green card holder in one step. With the K-3, you have to do the visa and then when he gets here, apply for the green card in a separate process, costing another ~$1000! Of course, this is all good for the lawyer's pocketbook, because he can charge you for two filings instead of just one!
I wanted to also point out some of my favorite links and resources on this site, which you might find useful. At the top of the page there is a blue bar with white text (you may need to stretch your window sideways because the text wraps funny) you'll see several links up there. The first one I looked at was the guides. Check out the flow charts for an overview of the process and a general idea of time involved for each step. Next is immigration Timelines - this site collects a lot of statistical information, and can help you see what kind of time frame you're looking at. The stuff labeled as K-3 isn't very good data any more - there aren't enough samples and if you look at the dates for those who have left their timelines as K-3, they just aren't that recent. Lastly, you'll want the embassy info and reviews sections on the second line there. But that's later in the process. There's also a UK regional forum which you may feel like checking out, especially as your interview at the embassy comes around and you're looking for documents and experiences with that part of the process.

How much investigation of each applicant do you think is appropriate? And how much longer would be willing to wait for that investigation to be conducted? Furthermore, how much more would be willing to pay (processing fee) for that investigation?
The officer was doing their job to determine that you were eligible to receive the benefit applied for. While you (or any of us) believe that your case shines clearly above the rest as valid, the adjudicating officer needs to determine that based on applying their knowledge and experience.
The burden of proof is on the applicant. You are at that interview to convince the interviewer that you are in fact living as a married couple. Your life together ( just as mine was at the AOS interview) is fair game. Our interviewer focused on age difference and communication. We answered similar questions a few times. As you did, we convinced the officer that our marriage was legitimate.
From what you've mentioned, all the questions were appropriate. That's just one person's opinion.
FWIW here is one VJ member's input on interviews. They were a CPB officer at one point in their life:
A good way to try to check your emotions is to understand that the nature of personal questions is not a reflection on you, it's a reflection of finding the truth to make an informed decision. They are doing their job which is to determine the eligibility of an individual to receive a benefit.
It's business not personal. That's tough to soak in because getting an immigration visa to be with your family is a very personal issue, but they don't see it that way and neither should you. If you understand their perspective and keep that in mind, you can tailor your responses to meet that perspective. Do that and you're most of the way there.

As I explained before, the method they use is a standard law enforcement technique. It's legal, and it's often quite effective. When they bring up cultural or religious issues during the interview it's rarely because they are sensitive to those issues, and more likely because they suspect that you are sensitive to them. The objective is to shake you up. If you were a Catholic from Colombia they might have accused you of being a drug smuggler or something similar.
Any immigration reform will likely not include doing away with the Stokes interview, simply because it works. When people are intimidated they will admit things they otherwise wouldn't admit.
Were any of your Constitutional rights breached during the interview? Were any of your human rights violated? From what you've described, I think the answer is no. You seem to have been offended because the immigration officer had the audacity to suspect you of something, and that you feel you should somehow be above suspicion. As I said in my first post, I think you went into the interview without a realistic understanding of what could happen there, and what the purpose of the interview was.
By all means, file a complaint or even a lawsuit, if you like. It doesn't sound to me like the immigration officer violated either US law or USCIS policy.

Some of the phrasings in this thread have been pretty harsh. No one in love appreciates having their relationship called into question. But, I think kenny's right from an overall point of view. And there's a lot of perfectly needless "Poor victimized me!!!!" in this thread.......I know online couples can feel pretty defensive sometimes (we are, I've felt it) but get a grip on it, especially here - because a lot of us are in that same boat. I've learned to own and embrace our relationship and how it evolved. The more you play up and the harder you defend the unusual-ness, the stranger and more suspicious it feels to 3rd parties, and the cycle continues. Treat your relationship as normal and true, and so will others.
There are a lot of people who feel like they are in love based on their online relationships. One day they meet, and sometimes all their dreams come true. Sometimes it doesn't work out. On VJ, we don't hear from that second outcome because they never make it this far, but they are out there. And, until you do meet, you'll never know which side you're on! I think it's really great that our relationships which started out online came to such beautiful fruition when we all met in person, but to assume that anyone who feels in love in a virtual relationship will absolutely just keep growing when they meet in person is just silly.

Some of the phrasings in this thread have been pretty harsh. No one in love appreciates having their relationship called into question. But, I think kenny's right from an overall point of view. And there's a lot of perfectly needless "Poor victimized me!!!!" in this thread.......I know online couples can feel pretty defensive sometimes (we are, I've felt it) but get a grip on it, especially here - because a lot of us are in that same boat. I've learned to own and embrace our relationship and how it evolved. The more you play up and the harder you defend the unusual-ness, the stranger and more suspicious it feels to 3rd parties, and the cycle continues. Treat your relationship as normal and true, and so will others.
There are a lot of people who feel like they are in love based on their online relationships. One day they meet, and sometimes all their dreams come true. Sometimes it doesn't work out. On VJ, we don't hear from that second outcome because they never make it this far, but they are out there. And, until you do meet, you'll never know which side you're on! I think it's really great that our relationships which started out online came to such beautiful fruition when we all met in person, but to assume that anyone who feels in love in a virtual relationship will absolutely just keep growing when they meet in person is just silly.

Some of the phrasings in this thread have been pretty harsh. No one in love appreciates having their relationship called into question. But, I think kenny's right from an overall point of view. And there's a lot of perfectly needless "Poor victimized me!!!!" in this thread.......I know online couples can feel pretty defensive sometimes (we are, I've felt it) but get a grip on it, especially here - because a lot of us are in that same boat. I've learned to own and embrace our relationship and how it evolved. The more you play up and the harder you defend the unusual-ness, the stranger and more suspicious it feels to 3rd parties, and the cycle continues. Treat your relationship as normal and true, and so will others.
There are a lot of people who feel like they are in love based on their online relationships. One day they meet, and sometimes all their dreams come true. Sometimes it doesn't work out. On VJ, we don't hear from that second outcome because they never make it this far, but they are out there. And, until you do meet, you'll never know which side you're on! I think it's really great that our relationships which started out online came to such beautiful fruition when we all met in person, but to assume that anyone who feels in love in a virtual relationship will absolutely just keep growing when they meet in person is just silly.

Welcome letter after POE is only issued to those who activate CR-IR visas.
As your husband is K-1, he wouldn't get a welcome notice until he successfully adjusts status and that is still down the road for you. So I don't believe your packet is lost but probably waiting for AOS submission so it can be joined with it - in the meantime, it's probably gathering dust in some USCIS storage place.

Dont mean to take this thread off into the weeds, but Rob and Jill, you're taking my post way out of context.. So maybe you just want to appear cute, but I didn't state any kinda time that someone needs to know each other after meeting.. My only point was, is "you can't be in-love without meeting someone.." You can be irrational and believe it's love, but that is not love.. So take my point and put whatever twist you want on it, but rational adults do not make these kinds of comitments until the relationship has taken its course.. The things that lead to true love are as individual as anything, and I did not attempt to define that... I only said you can't be in-love unless you've had time to meet someone.. I know that there are movies and fairytales and fantasy worlds that say diferent, but keep in mind, thats not reality..
Kenny

Any man that expects to exchange some financial security for a woman that under no normal circumstances would be attracted to him gets exactly what he pays for. There is no reason to whine when he finds out that he did actually have to pay.

You may or may not be assigned two separate A numbers at some point. The only one that matters is the one on the green card. My main point in response to your original question is that it is the petition approval that is important, not whether or not you have an A number or if it might change. You missed the point of the letter. It was an approval letter, not a notification you were assigned an A number.

I don't mean to rub any salt in your wounds, but I think you went into the interview without a reasonable understanding of what could happen. In truth, it could have been much much worse. If you had been selected for a Stokes interview then you would have been separated and subjected to such questioning for several hours.
The IO obviously thought you had lied about something at some point in the process, and he was trying to shake you up and get you to admit it. You did precisely what you were supposed to do, which is to be consistent with your answers. He is allowed to ask any questions he likes. He is allowed to accuse you of anything he likes. This is a common tactic used by law enforcement officers in the US (yes, an IO is a law enforcement officer), and it's been repeatedly upheld in court.
Feel free to sue USCIS or the IO in particular, but I doubt your lawsuit will get off the ground. First, everything he did was within his legal authority. Second, even if you could prove he was biased by race, religion, or culture, you can't show how you were injured by his bias because you were approved.
You were unfortunately selected for close scrutiny. You should probably try not to take it personally.
They do sometimes take the EAD. It isn't of any use once the green card has been issued. You won't need to get it back.

Jim, you know as well as I the reasons consulates in third world countries use "their discretion". It's because their discretion is backed up by years of evidence of visa fraud via marriage. Even if all aliens wishing to live in marital bliss in the US had to seek permission from abroad to do so, you'll not change the fact that consular processing for beneficiaries from low-fraud countries won't be easier.

That's actually not what the law says. It says that you must not have worked illegally or have unlawful immigration status at the time you submit the AOS application, but that specifically does not apply to an immediate relative of a US citizen. There is nothing about penalties being waived or anything being forgiven. If that were the case you could marry a US citizen after years of unlawful status, and then leave the US without facing any sort of ban because your overstay "penalty" would have been waived. Of course, that doesn't happen. They simply cannot use the overstay as the basis for denying AOS to an immediate relative of a US citizen. It doesn't affect any other aspect of immigration law.
The AOS in these cases is not being denied because of the overstay, so there's no conflict in the law. What is happening is a change in policy and not a change in law. USCIS has always had the authority to order the deportation of anyone who overstays a VWP entry. Up until relatively recently, they were using their discretion not to do so when someone submitted an AOS application after marrying a US citizen. This is changing.
Whether or not this is unwanted probably depends on who you ask. Many people, myself included, think that allowing an immediate relative of a US citizen to adjust status while merely visiting the US has too much potential for abuse. I also believe it provides an unfair advantage to people who happen to be from countries where it is relatively easy to get a visa or other entry pass to the United States, while forcing everyone else to go through the process to obtain a fiancee or spousal visa. USCIS, and their prior incarnation INS, has always taken the same position. Prior to precedent cases in the 1980's, they would routinely deny adjustment of status if they believed their was preconceived intent to immigrate. Those precedent cases took that option away from them. Now they need evidence of material misrepresentation to go along with the preconceived intent.
As I mentioned before, the VWP provides the highest possible potential for abuse because it allows someone to skip the visa process entirely.
Personally, I would like to see the law modified so that an immediate relative of a US citizen can only adjust status in the US if they've already obtained the appropriate type of visa, or if there is a compelling humanitarian reason not to make them return to their home country and go through the visa process.

You are incorrect to say that this goes against the law. One of the conditions of the VWP is that you waive your right to any appeal (which includes Judicial Review), THAT IS THE LAW they're using for the Denials. Also under the law once you are out of status you are immediately deportable, that is the law they're using to detain the VWP Overstayers if they attend an interview) and expedite their removal.
You can't challenge them in court as this has already been challenged and the Appeals Courts have agreed with USCIS. Any new challenges are being refused as the courts don't have jurisdiction per the already mentioned rulings that agree with USCIS's position on the VWP Overstay. The only hope is for one of the current cases to get to the US Supreme Court and have the existing rulings overturned.

Lisa,
you have two identical posts running. JimVaPhuong, who is among the most knowledgeable people on this board, answered your question in the AOS section. His advice is worth its weight in gold and you should contact your attorney it this regard to find out how the field office that's in charge of your case has been handling AOS cases from VW overstays lately.
Moderator: please combine identical threads.

Obviously Amber you have not hung out in MENA long enough to know that there are some really shady dudes - your husband might be a gem, but there are some MENA guys who are trying to play American women for fools and have succeeded! Just sayin'.

Unfortunately a lot of men of Arab descent make a bad name for THEMSELVES with their behavior as we've seen in this forum time and again. No one has to do it to them, they do it to themselves.

You've gotten some good advice, so far!
They won't deny your AOS solely for preconceived intent. They may suspect it. They may even be able to prove it. They just can't use it as the sole basis to deny your AOS. This was established by precedent BIA cases way back in the 1980's. On the other hand, if they have evidence you had preconceived intent, and they further have evidence that you lied about your intent to any US immigration officer, then you'll be denied for misrepresentation. The evidence of preconceived intent can be as simple as bringing things in your luggage that would be required to adjust status but not required to simply visit the US. The evidence of misrepresentation could be any statement you made when you were being screened for entry. Think about the questions you were asked to determine if this might apply to you.
I don't necessarily agree with Payxibka that this would be determined at the time you entered, or that you would necessarily have been denied entry if they suspected it. At least one VJ member was recently set up by CBP on entry. She was placed in secondary inspection, where she was bullied into lying about her intention to get married. This set a trap for her - if she tries to adjust status she'll have confirmed the lie, and she'll be denied and banned.
Myopia and Harpa Timsah laid out the VWP ground rules pretty clearly. If your AOS application is accepted by USCIS after your 90 days authorized stay expires then there is a good chance the AOS will be denied. The policy is not yet uniform throughout all USCIS field offices, so a lot will depend on what your local USCIS field office is doing. Some USCIS field offices are denying ALL AOS applications from VWP overstays. If your AOS is denied there's also a good chance you'll be ordered deported. As the others have said - no review or appeal - the order would be effective immediately. If you are deported then you'll receive a 10 year ban.
This is too complicated to write a long winded post about it (again). Consult with a local immigration attorney and find out how the USCIS field office where you live has been handling AOS cases for VWP entrants. Do this quickly - you don't have much time left. If they have been denying them, then don't send the AOS petition. Yours will also be denied, and you'll probably be deported. Go the CR1 route instead - there's no risk if you don't overstay by more than 180 days.

Hey there
Welcome to the site. You are going to find a wealth of information here which can be overwhelming to say the least.
The first thing that you need to decide is whether to file the Adjustment of Status (AOS) in the US or not. Yes, You are able to adjust without leaving the country whilst you are still IN STATUS and generally speaking as long as you file when you are still IN STATUS there is a good presumption that you will be able to adjust without any further issue from UCIS. The key point for you is to file whilst you are still In Status.
What does this mean for you?
It means that if you are still within the 90 days of your lawful non immigrant stay in the USA then you should be able to adjust.
Just to give you a brief background on the situation that you are in; It has always been possible to adjust to permanent resident status from within the US when one entered on a regular visa (One where you needed to interview at an embassy for). It has always been possible to adjust from entrance on the Visa Waiver Program. Years ago the advise was to adjust AFTER the 90 days had lapsed so as to avoid the presumption that the whole thing was intentional. Recently the consensous has been to adjust whilst in Status because of some rulings that reemphasized the fact that those who enter on the Visa Waiver Program do not have the right to appeal a visa denial because they waived all rights of appeal when they signed the VWP form (or ESTA)
This means if you file and the Immigration Officer denies your application...you will have to depart the USA and probably incur a ban. If this should happen you would have to apply from outside of the USA in order to attain permanent resident visa WITH the additional problem for filing a waiver to overcome the deportation ban.
Are you with me? Hope so!
So to answer your questions
1. No you will not be banned forever but you would have to leave with no right to appeal the IO's decision. You would have to file the regular CR1 visa in your home country along with a waiver for the ban that you may have incurred.
2. When your 90 day lawful stay runs out then you fall into unlawful stay. There are 180 days that you are allowed to accrue unlawfully before you incur the 5 year ban however you need to leave before that happens. If you leave after you will have that ban. Basically if you overstayed by up to six months and left of your own free will then you would not incur the six month ban but you would also not be able to use the visa waiver program again.
If you were apprehended by Immigration and Customs Enforcement(ICE) within this unlawful time and deported then you would receive an automatic 10 year ban. The clock is usually suspended for those who came on a Visa whilst their application is being decided. I do not believe that is the case for those on the Visa Waiver Program (Someone correct me as Im probably wrong about that)
3. At an interview you would have to establish the proof of a bona fide marriage. This is true. The photos and old lease that you have would probably serve you well if you were to leave the USA and file for the CR1 from your home country because it establishes a real relationship. However within the US once married you would be able to show your relationship with bonafide with the same things. You would be able to get notarized letters from family and friends that would testify that you were in a marriage etc. Joint gym memberships etc. There are a lot of things that you can do to prove that.
4. You would be better off with someone sponsoring you. You would have to have a lot of money in the bank to use as assets.
5. As far as I know you can file the CR1 and visit her over time. Some members have done so.
I tried to be as concise as I could before this thread gets filled with opinions, warnings and things that will make you feel more nervous than necessary.
The most important thing you need to decide is whether to file before the 90 days expired. This means getting the medical done, all forms filled, application costs everything needs to be filed within the 90 days and accepted by the UCIS before the 90 days so as to be on the safe side.
As I said there are those who filed after the 90 days and were approved but there were those who filed after and were denied.
Some immigration offices are flat denying all VWP adjustment applications who filed after the 90 days.
On edit I saw your other questions: At this point you are fine and you will not be banned for marrying within the 90 days and as I said in my answer above you do have proof of marriage, just as long as you have a sponser in the US you will be ok.
My answer is based on a ridiculous amount of time researching this because I am an overstayer. If I was able to go back within my 90 days, I would have left the US and filed from my home country. Its just too much stress and anxiety being out of status in this climate and even though I love my husband to pieces..I could handle a few months away from him if it meant I could have been here without any fear of some disgruntled friend or neighbor calling ICE to pick me up.
Make a decision fast but make sure it is the right one for you. I mean that.
Best of everything.