Sousuke

Hating someone doesn't make you crazy. Killing a bunch of people based on hatred of folks you don't know is crazy.

One reason why I disagree with you is that if you start to label a person motivated to kill by hate as "crazy", it seems to me at least, that it dismisses their actions, at least to some degree.

And I'm not in anyway knocking Islam.

We've had a woman hater do this, we've had a Christian do this, we've even had a killer use his aethism as a reason.

So I'll ask. How many people here think it's completely normal to kill groups of people just because?

I don't, but I think we can separate out incidences motivated by hate vs clinical issues.

While that may be an accurate description of some, I don't think it describes the majority of people. In my opinion, the PP shooter and the Nazi kid had definite agendas, not unlike this guy. Lanza seems to be more of a purely crazy person.

And I just experienced an incredibly sad moment. I am actually disturbed at how difficult it was for me to remember all three shooters you had brought up. This is becoming way too common. And I'm less concerned about the gun issue as I am about the societal issue. I'm not as concerned about the fact that people have the means to do these things; I'm more concerned that they have the desire to do this.

Yeah I would say both Aurora and Lanza were clinical mental issues that can be separated from the others.

So I won't make money this quarter? Oh no.

The Chinese?

Actually most AR15s are American made by smaller shops. Such as Palmetto and say Rainer Arms.

wouldn't that be because they're expensive?

They were more expensive at one time. There are so many makers now that prices have dropped over time. You can spend as little as 500 dollars for one now.

And do you think this is a good thing.

Should I only worry about my shares and hope to be able to afford armed guards at some time in the near future?

I would consider that an overreaction given that rifles as a whole kill about 300 - 400 people a year. AR15s probably make up less than half that.

So in 1962 the Pentagon was not in a pickle? And you deny the piece that I am pasting from the article below?

But the fact that the AR-15 is on the civilian market simply means that a military weapon is being routinely sold to civilians. It doesnt change the nature of the product: The AR-15 is a weapon explicitly designed for the purpose of accurately killing other people, potentially at great distances.

We know this because the U.S. military spent a long time studying and detailing just how effective the AR-15 is at warfare. Whether or not some AR-15s end up in use by varmint hunters, the unimpeachable truth is that these guns were invented and built to do the job of killing human beings.

In the early 60s, the Defense Documentation Center for Scientific and Technical Research (now the Defense Technical Information Center) released a 55-page study on the AR-15's suitability for the South Vietnamese army. The AR-15 Armalite rifle has been subjected to a comprehensive field evaluation under combat conditions in Vietnam, the report began. It went on: because of the controversy which has surrounded this weapon, particular care was exercised to insure that the tests were objective, thorough and adequately documented, and to insure that valid data and conclusions were derived therefrom.

AR 15 was a trademark for design. Its what was submitted for trials. The government approved it with some requested changes and adopted it as the M16. Afterwards, the term AR15 was used only for civilian models that were semiautomatic. For legal reasons, the internals of an AR15 are not the same as an M16. The report you mention predates the official military adoption by about 2 years.

As I said before most firearm manufacturers aim for a government contract first because they are more lucrative. Then they sell to the civilian market. There are failed Armalite designs (militarily) that are almost exclusive civilian guns.

7.62 works for me every time.

But up for better offers;)

I think the Japanese Self Defense force still uses 7.62 in the Howa 64 which they haven't completely retired yet.

Well it would be boring to drive cars that were merely functional...

Thing is why is on the civilian market? What purpose does it serve that other guns or whatever the correct terminology may be don't fulfill?

Is it merely a lethal fashion accessory?

Its more modular than any other firearm on the market and its light.

PS. Isn't Gawker filing for Bankruptcy due to unethical actions?

Change in user? Wider availability in the civilian sector ?

I will admit, new shooters seem to want to buy them because they look cool I guess.

The majority of firearms are made for civilian and military markets. They honestly go for military contracts first because they are more lucrative.

A good 19th century example is the henry repeater. It was developed during the Civil War and was hoped to be picked up by the north. Unfortunately not many were and instead it was best known as a civilian weapon.

The AR15 has been on the market for what 40 years? Why is it only an issue in the past decade?

I know two guys that bought a gun each at a gun show in Kentucky on Saturday. No background check. One got an ar for ~$600 an the other a ruger revolver. I just don't get the no background check stuff. How is that allowed?

It shouldn't be. This where the two sides should come together.

Compromise on universal background checks for say legal CCW in all 50 states.

Ok ok have it your way.

Gonna create a thread for you. Go get'em .

No, so long as guns are mentioned in this thread I will post HERE.

Yes he had such a firearms license. But can we ask ourselves why he did? A person who seems to have expressed mental instability for a considerable amount of time and abused his wife.

He had it for his security job. If there was evidence that he abused his wife, I'm not sure why the FBI didn't act.

Personally, I have a problem with the fact this individual, and I presume anyone in Florida, could walk into a Walmart or other location and purchase an AR-15 and walk out of the store with it in their grubby hands all in the same day. And, they continue to purchase gun after gun after gun..and ammo to boot all in the same week. It seems to me this shouldn't be a normal pattern of behavior for the average gun owner.

Walmart no longer sells AR15s as far as I'm aware. Honestly the average gun owner owns 8 firearms so I would say that buying gun after gun is normal behavior.

It seems to fit a profile. Do you change the law to say anyone who is on a watch list and anyone who was investigated multiple times by the FBI but aren't actively being watched should be prevented from obtaining a gun?

No I would ask why did they stop watching him if he wasn't safe. Frankly if a person is on a watchlist they should remain on the watchlist until they are not a threat. The FBI screwed up.

People are going to say they don't want to exchange their right to free speech which if absurd or horrible enough words are used, could cause them to be watched by their government, and then also lead them to be prevented from gun ownership. Clearly this person was investigated because he said some crazy stuff. But the FBI can't arrest a person for saying crazy stuff. They cannot arrest a person for going to Mecca and saying crazy stuff on their facebook pages. They can only arrest them if they say crazy stuff and they are caught planning out a deed. If this was the case, we would blessedly be rid of a ton of little ticking time-bombs and Nazi-lovers and their weapon stockpiles by now.

They can be arrested if a threat is made. Again, this person should have continued to be watched.

It's good to have a hobby. Just think all the sweet pillow talk about clips , magazines, glocks, gun sizes aren't really part of this discussion. But you are free to post. I'm not a mod. Your posts are very informative .

I'm not the one who brought up guns in this thread. Keep that in mind. When they enter the discussion I of course have every right to discuss them.

"The higher level is one of ignorance" -discuss;) hey but that's for a gun thread. Just noticing the pedantic tendencies of some;)

Love it, too!!!

If that's all you can say (or infer) that I'm pedantic that's fine. I'll leave it at that. I do take it as an insult though.

The vilification of any particular firearm is always going to be counterproductive as it will inevitably devolve into a pedantic dissertation on the various data points and nomenclatures that you, a non-gun person, got wrong. Better to keep the discussion at a higher level. Most people shouldn't have access to any guns, constitutional issues aside.

(Interesting comment from a non VJ member )

Love it

Bullets are different, yes? They should allow people to carry self defense guns with small bullets and a slow shot per second.

I'm not a gun expert, giving my opinion off of what I've seen and used. Bigger bullet more damage. Bigger gun most damage. A tank? It's war time.

1 million dollars donated. Awesome

I'm not sure which you have, but all of the glock calibers are larger than the 5.56.

Pretty much forget everything the Hollywood and the media has told you.

Depends on the type of glock. Not all are made the same are they?

Functionally, they are all the same. You can even share mags between models of the same caliber. Like a 19 magazine in a 26 etc.

"The killer, whose name I will not use or ever say, was born in Afghan, of Afghan parents, who immigrated to the United States, Trump said during a press conference Monday afternoon. The only reason the killer was in America in the first place was because we allowed his family to come here..

Gotta love this orange bafoon

Then all 80 need to go.

Who needs anything other than a Glock, pistol, revolver or shotgun? I mean really.

Actually a Glock was one of the 80

They did miss the domestic abuse problems in his background check. However, if ALL pepole weren't allowed to carry these types of guns, wouldn't it make agencies like the FBI job easier by not having to screen everyone they see with these type of weapons? If the gun is outlawed, they know it's a redflag to see someone with it. If it's needed for a profession people with certain problems in their background dint get access, domestic abuse, assault, drug abuse, alcoholism, gang affiliations, etc

What the AR 15? No. I can think of at least 80 guns that could do the job just as well.

I don't support descriminating against Muslims even after this attack. I also don't support the call for gun control after this event. Both come from a position of ignorance.

I don't think I have to explain why the former is so but as to the latter? You realize he had a class G firearms license right? Even if you passed all of the democrat's wishlist, he would have been legally able to have a gun due to his profession.

If anything, we will look back on this event with time and see it as a failure by the FBI.

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