Children and proving custody

[Joshua Kaufman 1]

My fiance and step-son recently had their interview in Frankfurt. Everything was fine until they came to the topic of custody of her 10-year-old son. (Both my fiance and step-son have German passports although my step-son was born in London, England. My fiance and his father have been separated for almost 9 years.)

Basically, the immigration officer said that she needed something proving that she has custody of her son otherwise the consulate would view it as "kidnapping her son to America" - they actually said that! The thing is under German law, if the father hasn't been around and the child lives continuously with the mother then custody is automatic. She knew this, but went to a legal assistant to check anyway. They told her the same thing.

So she did two things to try to get this proof. First, she went to the court (I can't remember the exact name she gave) and asked them for some documentation of this, and their reply was that they couldn't give her proof of something that was already in effect. In other words, yes she had custody; no, they couldn't give her a document to show that. Next, she went to social services and asked for a similar document. They couldn't help her either because her son wasn't born in Germany.

The only thing that she thinks she can use is a letter from her son's father stating that he's aware of their move to the United States and grants them permission to do so. This may be enough for the consulate, but I'm concerned that it may not be enough for the border officers.

Does anyone have any ideas what could be done in this situation? I was proud to get this far without a lawyer but I'm feeling like I may have to do that to be safe...

[pushbrk 12,212]

My fiance and step-son recently had their interview in Frankfurt. Everything was fine until they came to the topic of custody of her 10-year-old son. (Both my fiance and step-son have German passports although my step-son was born in London, England. My fiance and his father have been separated for almost 9 years.)

Basically, the immigration officer said that she needed something proving that she has custody of her son otherwise the consulate would view it as "kidnapping her son to America" - they actually said that! The thing is under German law, if the father hasn't been around and the child lives continuously with the mother then custody is automatic. She knew this, but went to a legal assistant to check anyway. They told her the same thing.

So she did two things to try to get this proof. First, she went to the court (I can't remember the exact name she gave) and asked them for some documentation of this, and their reply was that they couldn't give her proof of something that was already in effect. In other words, yes she had custody; no, they couldn't give her a document to show that. Next, she went to social services and asked for a similar document. They couldn't help her either because her son wasn't born in Germany.

The only thing that she thinks she can use is a letter from her son's father stating that he's aware of their move to the United States and grants them permission to do so. This may be enough for the consulate, but I'm concerned that it may not be enough for the border officers.

Does anyone have any ideas what could be done in this situation? I was proud to get this far without a lawyer but I'm feeling like I may have to do that to be safe...

You'll want to check with the Consulate as to the format and certification of any permission document but yes, they do accept them. In my experience they want the equivalent of a notarized affidavit from the other parent, giving permission. A notary would certify the signing was done in their presence and that they verified the identity of the person signing.

[payxibka 10,044]

The notarized letter is very common requirement. My So from a different country but it is exactly what we needed... We had scrutiny at the departure point and no issues upon arrival in the US

[desert_fox 32]

Don't they address issues like this at the divorce hearing and make it part of the final court order???

[pushbrk 12,212]

Don't they address issues like this at the divorce hearing and make it part of the final court order???

Sometimes, but there is no mention of marriage or divorce in the OP's question.

[Joshua Kaufman 1]

You'll want to check with the Consulate as to the format and certification of any permission document but yes, they do accept them. In my experience they want the equivalent of a notarized affidavit from the other parent, giving permission. A notary would certify the signing was done in their presence and that they verified the identity of the person signing.

Okay. Does anyone know of a form letter that could be used or have a letter that they've used successfully for this purpose?

[pushbrk 12,212]

You'll want to check with the Consulate as to the format and certification of any permission document but yes, they do accept them. In my experience they want the equivalent of a notarized affidavit from the other parent, giving permission. A notary would certify the signing was done in their presence and that they verified the identity of the person signing.

Okay. Does anyone know of a form letter that could be used or have a letter that they've used successfully for this purpose?

I'm not aware of a form letter but the letter would need to name both parents and the child and give permission to immigrate, be dated and signed before a Notary.

Something to the effect of.

Date

I, John James Doe give permission for my son, John Michael Doe to immigrate to the US with his mother, Jane Mary Doe.

John James Doe

Signature

Notary statement and signature.

[mox 298]

Have you considered getting a German attorney involved at this point? I'm having a hard time believing the embassy has never run into your problem before, so I'm wondering if they're just messing with you.

[*julez* 124]

Have you considered getting a German attorney involved at this point? I'm having a hard time believing the embassy has never run into your problem before, so I'm wondering if they're just messing with you.

The situation described above is actually quite common with a K1/K2. As others have stated, the embassy will accept a signed and notarized statement from the non-custodial parent granting permission for the child to emigrate.

[mox 298]

Have you considered getting a German attorney involved at this point? I'm having a hard time believing the embassy has never run into your problem before, so I'm wondering if they're just messing with you.

The situation described above is actually quite common with a K1/K2. As others have stated, the embassy will accept a signed and notarized statement from the non-custodial parent granting permission for the child to emigrate.

Yeah, it just seems strange to me that the consulate didn't tell them exactly what they needed. As you say, it's a common situation, but it doesn't sound like the consulate was any help at all in providing information on what evidence they would accept.

[TracyTN 237]

If I remember correctly from my husband's packet 3 (from London), there was a bit in there about what was needed to prove custody of any children emigrating with the beneficiary. I find it hard to believe that Frankfurt did not have a similar inclusion in any of their documentation.

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

My fiancée possesses an official paper from the Russian Government stating she is the custodial parent and has the right to make all decisions for her children without the father's permission.

[VetsWife328 7]

OKay here's what you do,(unless your Fiancee was married to the father of the child! then it wont work),she needs to go to the Jugendamt and get what is called a "Negativbescheinigung gemaess §58a SGB VII".

I just got the exact same thing for my son.

BUT,this does not work if she was married to the father of that child.

It has to read like this "Das Jugendamt der Stadt (City your Fiancee and her son live) bescheinigt hiermit,dass keine Sorgerechtserklärung gem. § 1626a Abs.1 Nr1 BGB verwahrt wird.

In very simple words,

that she has full custody for her son.

Good Luck

Nat

[rebeccajo 14]

Have you considered getting a German attorney involved at this point? I'm having a hard time believing the embassy has never run into your problem before, so I'm wondering if they're just messing with you.

No, the consulate is not messing with her. And while German law isn't 'ingored' in this equation, the real issue is satisfying American law regarding the entry of a minor child into the US. Unfortunately, what works in Germany insofar as custody may not work in the US. Anecdotally, an affidavit by the non-custodial parent seems to work in the western European consulates. If the CO was unclear with the OP's fiance as to what the bar of proof is, the couple should seek more information from the consulate before further spinning their wheels.

The concept is similar to issues of criminal conduct and waivers - crimes can be considered 'minor' or 'forgiven' in the home country, but the INA may have a different perspective of certain crimes and seek either more information about the incident by questioning at the interview, or require an 'investigation' of it via the waiver process.

As far as seeking advice from a German attorney - as with all immigration issues, an attorney versed in American immigration law is whom one should seek out. In this case however I believe the consulate should be guiding the visa applicant as to what is needed to resolve the issue.

[John/Sam Miles 0]

My fiance and step-son recently had their interview in Frankfurt. Everything was fine until they came to the topic of custody of her 10-year-old son. (Both my fiance and step-son have German passports although my step-son was born in London, England. My fiance and his father have been separated for almost 9 years.)

Basically, the immigration officer said that she needed something proving that she has custody of her son otherwise the consulate would view it as "kidnapping her son to America" - they actually said that! The thing is under German law, if the father hasn't been around and the child lives continuously with the mother then custody is automatic. She knew this, but went to a legal assistant to check anyway. They told her the same thing.

So she did two things to try to get this proof. First, she went to the court (I can't remember the exact name she gave) and asked them for some documentation of this, and their reply was that they couldn't give her proof of something that was already in effect. In other words, yes she had custody; no, they couldn't give her a document to show that. Next, she went to social services and asked for a similar document. They couldn't help her either because her son wasn't born in Germany.

The only thing that she thinks she can use is a letter from her son's father stating that he's aware of their move to the United States and grants them permission to do so. This may be enough for the consulate, but I'm concerned that it may not be enough for the border officers.

Does anyone have any ideas what could be done in this situation? I was proud to get this far without a lawyer but I'm feeling like I may have to do that to be safe...

I am a mother who has just succeeded in getting my K3 and a K4 for my daughter.

I was divorced before my child was born but just incase I had her father sign a letter stating that I was allowed to take her and reside in another country.

The letter included the date, his full names and ID number (SSN), my full names nad my ID number and my daughters full names and her birth number.

We got that witnessed and notarised. I wasn't even asked for anything like that but I supplied it anyway.

Good luck!

Sam