Seeking advice for Thai/US couple - What US visa path to take?

[PeachyTocker 9]

Hi Everyone

 

I would really appreciate some direct advice or feedback on our situation. I have tried searching throughout this forum and google to get a basic idea of things, but at the same time I don't understand it quite well enough to be sure how to proceed for such a major life path decision. I'm not sure if the culture of this forum is going to be hostile towards me for potentially asking a common question, but I hope you can understand why I want some direct feedback.

 

Our goal: Live in Thailand but spend time in the US 2-4months per year (seems impossible for now). Once/if we have children age 5+, the time split would become vice versa.

 

- Thai girlfriend 26, American boyfriend 35 (me)

- We live together in bangkok for over a year

- I am here on the Thailand elite visa which is a special longterm tourist visa

- I am retired from formal work, and I compete professionally in a sport around Thailand and asia. I have assets in the millions USD.

- girlfriend previously worked basic white collar job in Bangkok but now quit so she can travel with me and support our relationship and household

- she has no assets or truly valid ties to Thailand 

- she has no travel history aside from joining me to Vietnam twice for short trips

- she is an amazing human and I love her dearly, but this is irrelevant to US officers

 

We have no plans to live full-time in the United States in the next 5 years, but I visit my family and friends 2-3x per year for 2-3 weeks at a time. I would love it if she can join me for those trips and experience that part of my life.

 

From my understanding, her chance of getting a B2 tourist visa to join me on my upcoming trip in September of this year for a wedding and a sports competition is basically 0% and waste of time and money. Is that accurate? It seems to be a violation to apply for B2 and K1 at the same time? I don't care about gambling away $185 but I do care about wasting months delaying the inevitable K1 for a 99% rejection B2.

 

Moving onto the K1 visa option if B2 visa is impossible. I am certain I want to marry this girl, but as I said we do not want to live in the United States full-time until we have children that are school aged. Going the K1 visa route --> green card --> Citizen would be a lifestyle burden. However, from my research it could be literally the only possible way for her to ever set foot on US soil legally.

 

1. apply for K1 visa

2. wait months (years?)

3. Fly to US, get married

4. Apply for green card and exit travel permit

5. Spend minimum 6 months per year in the US

6. After 3 (?) years of this, she can apply to be a US citizen

7. Citizenship granted

8. We finally have the freedom to live the lifestyle we want

 

Is the above outline of steps fairly accurate? 

 

Is above likely the only way for her to see the US legally? I see that applying for a B2 visa after getting married in Thailand is even more impossible than as an unemployed non wealthy girlfriend?  

 

Is there a recommendation for help and expedition (agency, lawyer, etc) of getting the K1 visa in hand in bangkok? 

 

I welcome any criticism or feedback on options or information that I am overlooking!! It has all made me really disappointed with the way the US border, visas, and immigration is managed. You as an american could very well never be allowed to bring your own wife to visit the United States.

 

 

 

[TBoneTX 47,505]

Welcome to the forum, and thanks for your intelligent questions.

 

The CR-1 visa is superior to the K-1.  See the comparison, as compiled by our fine member Crazy Cat:

K-1
    More expensive than CR-1    
    Requires Adjustment of Status after marriage (expensive and requires a lot of paperwork)    
    Spouse can not leave the US until she/he receives approved Advance Parole (approx 6-8 months)    
    Spouse can not work until she/he receives EAD (approx 6-8 months)    
    Some people have had problems with driver licenses, Social Security cards, leases, bank account during this period    
    Spouse will not receive Green Card for many months after Adjustment of Status is filed.
    A K-1 might be a better choice when 18-21 year old children are immigrating also
    In some situations, marriage can affect certain Home country benefits, making a K-1 a better choice   
    A denied K-1 is sent back to USCIS to expire

CR-1
    Less expensive than K-1.
    No Adjustment of Status (I-485, I-131, I-765) required.    
    Spouse can immediately travel outside the US.
    Spouse is authorized to work immediately upon arrival.    
    Spouse receives Social Security Card and Green Card within 2 or 3 weeks after entering the US.
    Opening a bank account, getting a driver's license, etc. are very easily accomplished with GC, SS card, and passport.
    Spouse has legal Permanent Resident status IMMEDIATELY upon entry to US.

---

The challenge would be subsequent time spent outside the U.S. in terms of maintaining her resident status.  The above visas are for immigrating, not essentially visiting for short periods during the year.  Others here will be along to discuss this and other issues in depth.

Edited May 24 by TBoneTX

[Boiler 47,478]

I would marry not do k1

 

but basically how you lay it out but plan to spend more than 6 months a year in the US

[SandP_USA_CR1 16]

The major hole in your thinking with either the K-1 or CR1, in my opinion, is that you don't want to live in the US and fulfill the basic requirements behind the idea permanent residence in the U.S. You may want to review the actual residence requirements of a Green Card before going that course of action. Either the K1 or CR1 is much more costly and you risk losing the green card if you don't maintain residence in the US. As for the B2 application, this is one of those you never know until you try. You have heard correctly about the approval rates. When my now wife first applied for a B1/B2 (2013) she had a good job, owned house and land, and gave every reasonable evidence of strong ties to Thailand. Denied. The questions were mostly about me and did I have a job in Thailand -- which took me by surprise. A few years later, we both had a job at an American university in Thailand and they issued her an invitational letter. Approved. At renewal, they asked only her purpose for going and she told them it was to attend my doctoral graduation. When asked what university, the consular officer responded that he had graduated from there. Approved. Unfortunately, you would still become the focus of the questions. If you were employed in Thailand (preferably both of you), that could be enough to overcome the burden of non-immigrant intent. Either way, the B2 does appear the only reasonable option in the short-term to achieve your stated objectives. Based on what I've observed and read, it doesn't really matter whether you are married or not for the B1/B2. They will have questions about you and what you are doing in Thailand.

Should you decided to marry, there are some useful benefits in the immediate and whenever you do decided to apply for an IR1 visa. First, after marriage you can apply for an Individual Tax Identification Number (ITIN) to begin claiming her in your US income taxes. Second, when you are ready to apply for a IR1 visa, you will have been married for more than 2 years and become immediately eligible for a 10 year green card (less hassle and expense than a CR1 which gets a 2 year and must apply for removal of conditions). Whether married or not, you can get your child's Consular Record of Birth for citizenship, US Passport, and Social Security number.

We've waited until our daughter was 12 years old to apply for our Green Card and to move to the US for her school (7th grade). With you being in BKK, there are many great school options unlike in Hua Hin. If resources are not your problem, I can recommend NIST as an amazing international school. 

[Crazy Cat 44,448]

6 hours ago, PeachyTocker said:

1. apply for K1 visa

2. wait months (years?)

3. Fly to US, get married

4. Apply for green card and exit travel permit

5. Spend minimum 6 months per year in the US

6. After 3 (?) years of this, she can apply to be a US citizen

7. Citizenship granted

8. We finally have the freedom to live the lifestyle we want

 

Another alternative:

 

1.  Marry now.

2.  Apply for spousal visa.

3.  Hold case at NVC until such time spouse would enter the US after 2 years of marriage upon visa approval (immediately grants a 10 year Green Card).

4.  Live in the US, but make short trips outside the US until such time Green Card holder can apply for US citizenship (3 years after US entry).

5.  Spouse applies for and receives US citizenship (normally takes just a few months).

6.  Live wherever and whenever you want as a family of US citizens.

Note: None of the above steps would prohibit spouse from applying for a B2 visa before having a Green Card.

Edited May 24 by Crazy Cat

[PeachyTocker 9]

6 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

Welcome to the forum, and thanks for your intelligent questions.

 

The CR-1 visa is superior to the K-1.  See the comparison, as compiled by our fine member Crazy Cat:

K-1
    More expensive than CR-1    
    Requires Adjustment of Status after marriage (expensive and requires a lot of paperwork)    
    Spouse can not leave the US until she/he receives approved Advance Parole (approx 6-8 months)    
    Spouse can not work until she/he receives EAD (approx 6-8 months)    
    Some people have had problems with driver licenses, Social Security cards, leases, bank account during this period    
    Spouse will not receive Green Card for many months after Adjustment of Status is filed.
    A K-1 might be a better choice when 18-21 year old children are immigrating also
    In some situations, marriage can affect certain Home country benefits, making a K-1 a better choice   
    A denied K-1 is sent back to USCIS to expire

CR-1
    Less expensive than K-1.
    No Adjustment of Status (I-485, I-131, I-765) required.    
    Spouse can immediately travel outside the US.
    Spouse is authorized to work immediately upon arrival.    
    Spouse receives Social Security Card and Green Card within 2 or 3 weeks after entering the US.
    Opening a bank account, getting a driver's license, etc. are very easily accomplished with GC, SS card, and passport.
    Spouse has legal Permanent Resident status IMMEDIATELY upon entry to US.

---

The challenge would be subsequent time spent outside the U.S. in terms of maintaining her resident status.  The above visas are for immigrating, not essentially visiting for short periods during the year.  Others here will be along to discuss this and other issues in depth.

 

Thanks for the welcome and thanks for the information, very helpful. I didn't really consider the marriage + CR1 route because of a few reasons, the primary being that I understood it to be a longer timeframe for her to be able to enter the US. We are fortunate enough to be able to have a home base in both Thailand and the states, so adjusting our lifestyle (as I labeled originally as a burden) is not as bad as having to exclude her from my United States life and family for significantly longer. There are also no plans for her to work in either place. Regardless I will take a look at the post you mentioned. I am looking at two numbers: total time until able to enter the US and total time to be a US citizen. Those are the two big ticket numbers.

 

Am I correct that you absolutely cannot apply for K1 while a B2 application is in process? Should I expect it to take several months for B2 to reach a decision point (reject vs. issuance)?

 

5 hours ago, Boiler said:

I would marry not do k1

 

but basically how you lay it out but plan to spend more than 6 months a year in the US

 

Yeah looks like we will plan to stay in the US 7 months per calendar year to be safe and no trips longer than 6mo. See above concerns regarding marriage vs. K1.

 

2 hours ago, SandP_USA_CR1 said:

The major hole in your thinking with either the K-1 or CR1, in my opinion, is that you don't want to live in the US and fulfill the basic requirements behind the idea permanent residence in the U.S. You may want to review the actual residence requirements of a Green Card before going that course of action. Either the K1 or CR1 is much more costly and you risk losing the green card if you don't maintain residence in the US. As for the B2 application, this is one of those you never know until you try. You have heard correctly about the approval rates. When my now wife first applied for a B1/B2 (2013) she had a good job, owned house and land, and gave every reasonable evidence of strong ties to Thailand. Denied. The questions were mostly about me and did I have a job in Thailand -- which took me by surprise. A few years later, we both had a job at an American university in Thailand and they issued her an invitational letter. Approved. At renewal, they asked only her purpose for going and she told them it was to attend my doctoral graduation. When asked what university, the consular officer responded that he had graduated from there. Approved. Unfortunately, you would still become the focus of the questions. If you were employed in Thailand (preferably both of you), that could be enough to overcome the burden of non-immigrant intent. Either way, the B2 does appear the only reasonable option in the short-term to achieve your stated objectives. Based on what I've observed and read, it doesn't really matter whether you are married or not for the B1/B2. They will have questions about you and what you are doing in Thailand.

Should you decided to marry, there are some useful benefits in the immediate and whenever you do decided to apply for an IR1 visa. First, after marriage you can apply for an Individual Tax Identification Number (ITIN) to begin claiming her in your US income taxes. Second, when you are ready to apply for a IR1 visa, you will have been married for more than 2 years and become immediately eligible for a 10 year green card (less hassle and expense than a CR1 which gets a 2 year and must apply for removal of conditions). Whether married or not, you can get your child's Consular Record of Birth for citizenship, US Passport, and Social Security number.

We've waited until our daughter was 12 years old to apply for our Green Card and to move to the US for her school (7th grade). With you being in BKK, there are many great school options unlike in Hua Hin. If resources are not your problem, I can recommend NIST as an amazing international school. 

 

Thanks for the reply this is helpful.

 

The interesting part of your first statement though, is that if the US cared about our real intent or idea, we would easily get her a B2 visa and many of the challenges discussed on this forum might not exist. But unfortunately, we all know that there is a 95% chance that the US officer will tell her, contrary to reality, that real intentions ARE to live in the US and will reject that B2 application. I am very fond of the United States and proud of the country, but I see no evidence that it has any competence at managing its borders or the foreigners inside the border. The fact that our 2 options are to 1) get married and move fulltime or 2) get a 10 year nonspecific number of entries for non-specified stay durations is a perfect example of the idiocy of the whole situation and why there's so much overstay fraud. Therefore, I don't mind just following the letter of the law of the green card rules which seem to point towards spending 6+mo/yr there, being good people, and a ton of fees and paperwork until the passport can show up years down the road.

 

My girlfriend and I will never have any "ties to Thailand" that will satisfy what is reported as the requirements of the B2 visa. No plans of real employment in the near future. No family wealth for her and no real estate. I don't intend to move a bunch of money into Thailand to somehow make them change their mind on that.

 

The marriage portion goes back to not wanting to wait 2+ years for her to see the US. Perhaps my understanding is wrong but I thought K1 is about half of that or less.

 

School wise, I have no doubt that for a handsome tuition fee the child can be taught the curriculum pretty well, but I prefer the community and cultural and sports environment available in the US. Definitely not in a large city, bangkok or the US. Just personal preference, no negativity towards Thailand or other parts of Asia. 

 

41 minutes ago, Crazy Cat said:

 

Another alternative:

 

1.  Marry now.

2.  Apply for spousal visa.

3.  Hold case at NVC until such time spouse would enter the US after 2 years of marriage upon visa approval (immediately grants a 10 year Green Card).

4.  Live in the US, but make short trips outside the US until such time Green Card holder can apply for US citizenship (3 years after US entry).

5.  Spouse applies for and receives US citizenship (normally takes just a few months).

6.  Live wherever and whenever you want as a family of US citizens.

Note: None of the above steps would prohibit spouse from applying for a B2 visa before having a Green Card.

 

Thank you for the input

[Crazy Cat 44,448]

9 hours ago, PeachyTocker said:

We have no plans to live full-time in the United States in the next 5 years,

That, right there, should take the K-1 off your list as an option, imo.  

Edited May 24 by Crazy Cat

[PeachyTocker 9]

2 minutes ago, Crazy Cat said:

That, right there, should take the K-1 off your list as an option.  

 

Maybe "fulltime" isn't specific enough of a term for this, but we are willing to spend around the minimum amount of time the US government considers fulltime which seems to be 6 months per year for the necessary number of years.

[Crazy Cat 44,448]

3 minutes ago, PeachyTocker said:

The marriage portion goes back to not wanting to wait 2+ years for her to see the US. Perhaps my understanding is wrong but I thought K1 is about half of that or less.

There is no perfect solution. The K-1 entry into the US might be a bit faster, but there are MANY drawbacks to a K-1 vs a spousal visa.  

[Crazy Cat 44,448]

Since joining Visa Journey, I have seen many, many couples who chose a K-1, then regretted that choice later.  I have not seen a single case of a couple who regretted choosing a spousal visa over a K-1.  Of course, it's a personal choice, and every case is unique in some way(s), but the drawbacks of a K-1 are more difficult than some people imagine.

[PeachyTocker 9]

13 minutes ago, Crazy Cat said:

There is no perfect solution. The K-1 entry into the US might be a bit faster, but there are MANY drawbacks to a K-1 vs a spousal visa.  

 

I will take a stab at listing some pros and cons below, but I haven't seen anything that points to CR1 being better for our case considering priorities. Pardon me for still being confused as to why it's much better. We have the resources to live well in both countries, and priority is getting access to enjoy these two countries together sooner.

 

CR1 pros

- less expensive

- immediate green card upon entry

 

CR1 cons

- must get married before even starting this application (this is significant)

- partner will have no experience of the United States for 2+ years from now

 

K1 pros

- can apply now (maybe?) and get married next year

- access to the US in 9-12mo

 

K1 cons:

- more expensive

- more paperwork and waiting for the green card upon entry to the US

- must stay at least 6-9mo in the US after initial entry 

 

 

Edited May 24 by PeachyTocker

[Crazy Cat 44,448]

23 minutes ago, PeachyTocker said:

and priority is getting access to enjoy these two countries together sooner.

That makes a spousal visa the better choice, imo.  Spouse cannot apply for citizenship until she has been a Green Card holder for 3 years.  A K-1 entrant will not have a Green Card until 12-18 months (approx, could be longer) after entry into the US.  Clock for citizenship application starts then.  For a spouse who enters via a spousal visa, the 3 year clock starts immediately upon entry into the US. 

Edited May 24 by Crazy Cat

[Crazy Cat 44,448]

30 minutes ago, PeachyTocker said:

- must get married before even starting this application (this is significant)

Utah online marriage makes the process quite easy and fast.  Since you already live together, consummation is not an issue. 

As I always say, US immigration requires a great deal of knowledge, planning, time, patience, and significant amount of money. Most Americans have no idea what goes into legal immigration.  You are certainly doing your homework.  Good luck in making the right decisions for your priorities and your family.

Edited May 24 by Crazy Cat

[PeachyTocker 9]

19 minutes ago, Crazy Cat said:

That makes a spousal visa the better choice.  Spouse cannot apply for citizenship until she has been a Green Card holder for 3 years.  A K-1 entrant will not have a Green Card until 12-18 months (approx, could be longer) after entry into the US.   For a spouse who enters via a spousal visa, the 3 year clock starts immediately upon entry into the US. 

 

But using the spousal route, that entry to the US where the 3 year clock starts is a minimum of 2 years from now. That along with the requirement of rushing legal marriage before even starting the ball rolling on visa are two gigantic negatives for us. 

 

Not having a green card for 12-18months after entry with K1 is new info to me, however during that time she could get her parole to travel (quoted above 6-8mo). Doesn't that make the total time to citizenship from now to be within a similar ballpark anyway? But with sooner entry to the US via K1?

 

Am I still missing something major?

 

Again, priority number 1 is getting to the US faster. We can adjust our lifestyle as needed to satisfy the downstream residency requirements of getting to citizenship.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 24 by PeachyTocker

[Crazy Cat 44,448]

15 minutes ago, PeachyTocker said:

Not having a green card for 12-18months after entry with K1 is new info to me,

For a K-1 entrant, a Green Card comes upon approval of an I-485, application for Adjustment of Status.  That is submitted after marriage.  It could take a year or more after application.  That is when the 3 year clock for citizenship would start. 

 

A spousal visa entrant can start traveling outside the US immediately. 

Life is full of choices and consequences.  We can only give you you information based our accumulated knowledge of immigration and the enormous number of cases we see here every year. Good luck.

Edited May 24 by Crazy Cat