Surrendering your green card(s) at Oath. What about childrens?

[Marrienne 113]

Hello!!!

So my Oath ceremony is 9/13. I have two minor children, who will derive citizenship from me. Obviously only I, the adult, is taking the Oath the letter states bring all Green cards/Visas/any document that USCIS has issued you related to your alien status.

Ok... what about the kids' green cards?

 

I would think no (?) Because this is about the adult but I thought I would ask.

 

Also, after your Oath, what paperwork do you fill out to get your minor kids the derived citizenship?

To clarify: yes the minors become citizens when the adult becomes one but it is not magically updated somewhere. There is paperwork the adult citizen has to fill out, just like if you had a baby with an American and they got citizenship from the parent. Any idea what kind of paperwork and where you file that?

 

TIA

[Mike E 11,740]

20 minutes ago, Marrienne said:

Ok... what about the kids' green cards?

They might or might not

become citizens when you take oath. This will be determined by an adjudicator at:

 

1. the U.S. passport agency who will look at the evidence in their DS-11s and rule whether the children became citizens. If affirmative,  passports will be issued. The GCs might be retained by the passport agency or returned.

 

2. USCIS who will look at the evidence in their N-600s and rule whether the children became citizens. If affirmative,  certificates of citizenship will be issued. The GCs will be retained by USCIS.

 

If you decide to do step 1 before step 2, the longer you wait between steps 1 and 2, the more likely the passport agency and USCIS will make different rulings. This is because, evidence, like radioactive isotopes, decays at an exponential rate.

 

Step 1 can be attempted multiple times. Step 2 can be attempted just once. For this reason, step 2 should not be attempted until step 1 succeeds.

[Family 4,025]

Ask for an additional certified /authenticated copy your Naturalization Certificate ..so you can apply for all children’s passports at the same time. Each application requires its own supporting docs..

[Marrienne 113]

20 minutes ago, Mike E said:

They might or might not

become citizens when you take oath. This will be determined by an adjudicator at:

 

1. the U.S. passport agency who will look at the evidence in their DS-11s and rule whether the children became citizens. If affirmative,  passports will be issued. The GCs might be retained by the passport agency or returned.

 

2. USCIS who will look at the evidence in their N-600s and rule whether the children became citizens. If affirmative,  certificates of citizenship will be issued. The GCs will be retained by USCIS.

 

If you decide to do step 1 before step 2, the longer you wait between steps 1 and 2, the more likely the passport agency and USCIS will make different rulings. This is because, evidence, like radioactive isotopes, decays at an exponential rate.

 

Step 1 can be attempted multiple times. Step 2 can be attempted just once. For this reason, step 2 should not be attempted until step 1 succeeds.

 

They don't have DS-11s and what is N-600?

Lol

 

If the parent becomes a citizen before the child turns 18, they are considered children of a US citizen and thus, they are too, US citizens.

But it doesn't happen automatically. You need to fill out a form and show them the date you became and citizen so you can prove they weren't yet adults. Problem is, I don't know where to do this?

[Marrienne 113]

10 minutes ago, Family said:

Ask for an additional certified /authenticated copy your Naturalization Certificate ..so you can apply for all children’s passports at the same time. Each application requires its own supporting docs..

Thank you!!

I asked in a previous post and I was told that you don't get a copy. They only give you *ONE* certificate which you must send in with your passport. Must be the original and they return it. 

[Mike E 11,740]

12 minutes ago, Marrienne said:

They don't have DS-11s

Every U.S. passport holder has to gill out DS-11 at least once.

12 minutes ago, Marrienne said:

and what is N-600?

Application for certificate of citizenship

12 minutes ago, Marrienne said:

If the parent becomes a citizen before the child turns 18, they are considered children of a US citizen and thus, they are too, US citizens.

Not always. 

12 minutes ago, Marrienne said:

 

But it doesn't happen automatically.
 

 

It does. That is the law.

12 minutes ago, Marrienne said:

 

Problem is, I don't know where to do this?

When you apply for their passports provide proof:

 

* their GCs

* your certificate of naturalization

* legal and physical custody evidence

* their birth certificates

Edited August 17, 2023 by Mike E

[Mike E 11,740]

Citizenship of children of naturalized parents 

 

To get your child  a U.S. passport you need to have evidence that the child: 

 

•  is your child  
• lives with you 
• is in your legal custody 
• has LPR status 
• you are a U.S. citizen 
• the above all happened before the child  reached age 18

 

IMO there these are  facts:

• the longer a parent waits to secure a U.S. citizenship document for the child, the harder it becomes to prove the child is. U.S. citizen. It actually becomes exponentially harder because evidence, like radioactivity of isotopes has a half life.  It’s actually the law of physics: order tends to disorder aka the Law of Entropy 

 

• you get exactly one chance to file N-600.  Often when parents decide to try N-600 first, they get RFE for evidence. The parent doesn’t know how to respond to RFE, and the case is denied. Forever.   Whereas if the passport acceptance agent is half way competent the agent won’t accept the application with incomplete evidence. 

 

• whereas you can  try as many times as you want  to get a passport 

 

• passports get lost and replacing a passport without a certificate of citizenship is hard. Replacing a passport when you have a passport card is easy. 

[Marrienne 113]

5 minutes ago, Mike E said:

Citizenship of children of naturalized parents 

 

To get your child  a U.S. passport you need to have evidence that the child: 

 

•  is your child  
• lives with you 
• is in your legal custody 
• has LPR status 
• you are a U.S. citizen 
• the above all happened before the child  reached age 18

 

IMO there these are  facts:

• the longer a parent waits to secure a U.S. citizenship document for the child, the harder it becomes to prove the child is. U.S. citizen. It actually becomes exponentially harder because evidence, like radioactivity of isotopes has a half life.  It’s actually the law of physics: order tends to disorder aka the Law of Entropy 

 

• you get exactly one chance to file N-600.  Often when parents decide to try N-600 first, they get RFE for evidence. The parent doesn’t know how to respond to RFE, and the case is denied. Forever.   Whereas if the passport acceptance agent is half way competent the agent won’t accept the application with incomplete evidence. 

 

• whereas you can  try as many times as you want  to get a passport 

 

• passports get lost and replacing a passport without a certificate of citizenship is hard. Replacing a passport when you have a passport card is easy. 

Makes sense.

Well, my Oath ceremony is 9/13 so I can't file for passports before that, lol:)

 

I got all of the above already, so we are good.

 

Btw the Child Act of 2000 under article 320 says they don't need an N-600 if they are going to be residing in the USA. I just looked it up. You just need to submit all of the above as you stated minus the certificate of citizenship when you file for a passport for them.

 

Thanks for all your valuable input you guys!!

[Marrienne 113]

[Mike E 11,740]

22 minutes ago, Marrienne said:

Well, my Oath ceremony is 9/13 so I can't file for passports before that, lol:)

 I do not believe I suggested you could. 
 

22 minutes ago, Marrienne said:

Btw the Child Act of 2000 under article 320 says they don't need an N-600 

Unfortunately this is not always true. A minority of derived citizens who do not have certificates of citizenship encounter problems like:

 

* getting a U.S. security clearance

* becoming an officer in the U.S. armed forces

* being assigned certain roles in the U.S. armed forces

* getting a drivers license or state ID

* registering to vote

* getting a new or replacement social security card

* getting social security benefits

* petitioning a relative for an immigration benefit

* replacing a damaged or lost U.S.    passport

* obtaining a U.S. passport for their own children who were not born in the U.S.  

* registering to vote

* being ineligible to renew a passport due to criminal record, child support lapses, losing passports too often, no fly list, etc.

 

Lest others chime in and say they had no problem with the above, I say congrats and welcome to the majority.

 

Tragically derived citizens tend run into these issues long after their parents have passed and/or  lost naturalization certificates and other critical evidence. Some end up living in the shadows of American Society: no job, no home, and in fear. CCA 2000 has done evil things to at least tens of thousands of Americans, and USCIS is to blame for not educating naturalized citizens on these issues.

 

Fortunately, on visa journey we are educated.

Edited August 18, 2023 by Mike E

[Marrienne 113]

Oh I mentioned that my Oath is 9/13 because you said sometimes people wait too long

no, I won't wait..I will do everything as soon as I do my Oath next month.

thanks again!!!

[Marrienne 113]

PS. The boys are 17, so the legal and physical custody rule apparently doesn't apply (I am just reading the DS-11 instructions right now and they are different for 16 and 17-year-olds) BUT one parent must be present apparently, which of course I will be.
The kids are lawful permanent residents, everything was done legally, and I have all the required paperwork, so I don't forsee any issues in proving derived citizenship. Will keep you posted!!

 

[Mike E 11,740]

7 minutes ago, Marrienne said:

PS. The boys are 17, so the legal and physical custody rule apparently doesn't apply

Yes they do

 

7 minutes ago, Marrienne said:

apply (I am just reading the DS-11 instructions right now and they are different for 16 and 17-year-olds) BUT one parent must be present apparently, which of course I will be.

You are mixing different things. A 16 year old does not need permission to get a U.S. passport. But if a derived citizenship, he does need to prove he was in the legal and physical custody of his naturalized parent.

 

 

Edited August 18, 2023 by Mike E

[Marrienne 113]

9 minutes ago, Mike E said:

Yes they do

 

You are mixing different things. A 16 year old does not need permission to get a U.S. passport. But if a derived citizenship, he does need to prove he was in the legal and physical custody of his naturalized parent.

 

 

Oooh I see. Well, no problem there either lol got all the paperwork. Thanks for that, I will make sure to bring the proof for that as well so I don't have to go back later

 

[EM_Vandaveer 2,408]

7 hours ago, Marrienne said:

Makes sense.

Well, my Oath ceremony is 9/13 so I can't file for passports before that, lol:)

 

I got all of the above already, so we are good.

 

Btw the Child Act of 2000 under article 320 says they don't need an N-600 if they are going to be residing in the USA. I just looked it up. You just need to submit all of the above as you stated minus the certificate of citizenship when you file for a passport for them.

 

Thanks for all your valuable input you guys!!

N-600s are expensive, nevertheless, it's better to get them (after they get passports) so your kids have proof that they're US citizens.