Real Help needed

[denett 0]

Ok guys I need all the help i know some of you will be scarsatic and even throw in some constructive criticism, so here is the  deal. I have been a PR since  2012 and unfortunately have been outsie the country more than I was supposed to be due to uforseeable circumstanences. I applied for citizenship in oct 2016 and I had my interview in June 2018. As you all could guess, it was denied as I was not physically present in the country less than half the time as I required, but the officer who interviewed me also requested that I should have my husband's naturalisation certifcate. We had used is passport to initate the process in 2011. I have felt defeated hpwever I have decided to give it another try I filed again for the n 400 in jan 2020 I have not been outside long, from 2018 to 2020.   In 2020 Feb I travelled to trinidad and the borders were closed still are if you wanted to leave the flights were pricey hence I waited till it was reasonable I arrived in jULY 2020. The other thing is my husband's ex still has his naturalistion certificate do I really need it if I am filing based on 5 years as a PR? A new one is $555 which is like crazy, thanks for your help

[mushroomspore 3,044]

17 minutes ago, denett said:

Ok guys I need all the help i know some of you will be scarsatic and even throw in some constructive criticism, so here is the  deal. I have been a PR since  2012 and unfortunately have been outsie the country more than I was supposed to be due to uforseeable circumstanences. I applied for citizenship in oct 2016 and I had my interview in June 2018. As you all could guess, it was denied as I was not physically present in the country less than half the time as I required, but the officer who interviewed me also requested that I should have my husband's naturalisation certifcate. We had used is passport to initate the process in 2011. I have felt defeated hpwever I have decided to give it another try I filed again for the n 400 in jan 2020 I have not been outside long, from 2018 to 2020.   In 2020 Feb I travelled to trinidad and the borders were closed still are if you wanted to leave the flights were pricey hence I waited till it was reasonable I arrived in jULY 2020. The other thing is my husband's ex still has his naturalistion certificate do I really need it if I am filing based on 5 years as a PR? A new one is $555 which is like crazy, thanks for your help

So your original attempt was under the 3-year rule? If yes, then that's why they asked for your husband's naturalization certificate. Under the 3-year rule, they need proof that your US citizen spouse has been a citizen for three years or more prior to your filing. But you could have shown his US passport as proof, so I'm not sure why they specified naturalization certificate. Under the 5-year rule, you won't need his naturalization certificate because they only ask for your PR card. The main question here is if you now meet the physical presence requirements. 

 

As for your husband's naturalization certificate, that's his responsibility. Tell him to file the form to get a new one. It's easy to Google.

[denett 0]

Spoiler

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thank you mushroomspore I appreciate your response, that is correct I did apply under the  3 year rule first and my lawyer tried to change it to the 5 year rule but the officer was adamant, she stuck to the 3 year filing. So now I am filing under 5 year.  

[Pinkrlion 2,724]

how are you going to overcome physical presence again when you said you were gone 2018-2020,

[mushroomspore 3,044]

 

49 minutes ago, denett said:

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thank you mushroomspore I appreciate your response, that is correct I did apply under the  3 year rule first and my lawyer tried to change it to the 5 year rule but the officer was adamant, she stuck to the 3 year filing. So now I am filing under 5 year.  

Do you currently meet the physical presence requirements?

[denett 0]

13 hours ago, mushroomspore said:

 

Do you currently meet the physical presence requirements?

oh I am sorry for the miscommunication and the typos I was present from 2018 to 2020feb I was out between feb20 to july 20 and I have been here since.

 

Edited March 4, 2021 by denett
typo

[SusieQQQ 11,586]

It’s really not very clear what your actual dates of presence in the US are (when in 2018 did you move back?). If you are filing under the 5 year rule you need to have been present for 30 of the 60 months (913 days) before filing and not have any single absence exceeding 180 days (well the latter is technically rebuttable but given your past experience that’s not a route I’d try).
 

You are probably ok on physical presence based on what you said IF you arrived back in early 2018 but you haven’t given exact dates so you need to work it out properly to ensure that you meet it.

 

However if you were absent longer than 6 months (but less than a year) in one stretch before 2018 (within the 5 year period you will be applying on), then you cannot apply under the 5 year rule yet. Again this is unclear from what you’ve said but it sounds like it might have been the case. In that case you can only apply 4 years and 6 months after your return date in 2018 :

https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-12-part-d-chapter-3

If the applicant is unable to rebut the presumption, he or she must wait until at least 6 months from reaching the 5-year anniversary of the newly established statutory period following the applicant’s return to the United States. In this example, the newly established statutory period began on August 1, 2018, when the applicant returned to the United States. Therefore, the earliest the applicant may re-apply for naturalization is February 1, 2023, which is at least 6 months from the 5-year anniversary of the pertinent statutory period.

 

Of course if you apply under the 3 year rule this becomes 2 years and 6 months and then you are probably eligible to apply now or soon (depending again on exact date of return) but then you are back to your original problem. Again it is not clear from what you’ve said if there was a 180+ day absence from the US within the last 5 years, so this may or may not be a problem.
 

 

 

Edited March 4, 2021 by SusieQQQ

[denett 0]

On 3/4/2021 at 10:28 AM, SusieQQQ said:

It’s really not very clear what your actual dates of presence in the US are (when in 2018 did you move back?). If you are filing under the 5 year rule you need to have been present for 30 of the 60 months (913 days) before filing and not have any single absence exceeding 180 days (well the latter is technically rebuttable but given your past experience that’s not a route I’d try).
 

You are probably ok on physical presence based on what you said IF you arrived back in early 2018 but you haven’t given exact dates so you need to work it out properly to ensure that you meet it.

 

However if you were absent longer than 6 months (but less than a year) in one stretch before 2018 (within the 5 year period you will be applying on), then you cannot apply under the 5 year rule yet. Again this is unclear from what you’ve said but it sounds like it might have been the case. In that case you can only apply 4 years and 6 months after your return date in 2018 :

https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-12-part-d-chapter-3

If the applicant is unable to rebut the presumption, he or she must wait until at least 6 months from reaching the 5-year anniversary of the newly established statutory period following the applicant’s return to the United States. In this example, the newly established statutory period began on August 1, 2018, when the applicant returned to the United States. Therefore, the earliest the applicant may re-apply for naturalization is February 1, 2023, which is at least 6 months from the 5-year anniversary of the pertinent statutory period.

 

Of course if you apply under the 3 year rule this becomes 2 years and 6 months and then you are probably eligible to apply now or soon (depending again on exact date of return) but then you are back to your original problem. Again it is not clear from what you’ve said if there was a 180+ day absence from the US within the last 5 years, so this may or may not be a problem.
 

 

 

 

[denett 0]

Thank you Susieqq what you are  saying makes  perfect  sense and I thank you for your guidance,  based on the  uscis manual you are  right i didnt  provide clear information I came  in August  2012 and  I perioidically went  to my home country but I never  stayed  out more than 6 months at a time.

In July 2016 I returned to states had  a baby stayed  here pretty much here until April 2017, travelled out and  returned in June 2017.

I would visit my home country for a period of a month or so never too long 1 mth or 2. From June 2017 to my interview in AUgust 2018 I stayed here. Got denied. I travelled again in Nov 2018 and left Jan 6 2019 and stayed pretty much for a long time I made a  brief trip in Nov2019 and returned Dec 9 2019. I went on a  7 day cruise in jan 2020, filed on my return. on 23 Jan 2020. travelled out again was supposed to be a brief trip and got looked out because TT closed their borders on 3/22, due to the  pandemic. I only got a repatriation flight in July 2020. I have been here since. So maybe I mistaken  I thought either way they would have  calculated the  last 5 years of travel, so at 2020 they would have started at  2015. I thought that as I filed online the system would have  told me eligible or not as I have  seen with other members applications. I pray that I get through

 

[SusieQQQ 11,586]

Ok I’m still not entirely sure when you were where but the fact that you had no absence greater than 6 months is positive, so you just need to calculate the physical presence to see it meets requirements. If you filed online and didn’t get a warning before you submitted then you are probably ok.
 

It’s not entirely clear to me why you got denied the first time from what you have said here, there must have been very many short trips out if you didn’t meet the physical presence requirements. 

[dazedandconfused2 11]

On 3/4/2021 at 8:28 AM, SusieQQQ said:

It’s really not very clear what your actual dates of presence in the US are (when in 2018 did you move back?). If you are filing under the 5 year rule you need to have been present for 30 of the 60 months (913 days) before filing and not have any single absence exceeding 180 days (well the latter is technically rebuttable but given your past experience that’s not a route I’d try).
 

You are probably ok on physical presence based on what you said IF you arrived back in early 2018 but you haven’t given exact dates so you need to work it out properly to ensure that you meet it.

 

However if you were absent longer than 6 months (but less than a year) in one stretch before 2018 (within the 5 year period you will be applying on), then you cannot apply under the 5 year rule yet. Again this is unclear from what you’ve said but it sounds like it might have been the case. In that case you can only apply 4 years and 6 months after your return date in 2018 :

https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-12-part-d-chapter-3

If the applicant is unable to rebut the presumption, he or she must wait until at least 6 months from reaching the 5-year anniversary of the newly established statutory period following the applicant’s return to the United States. In this example, the newly established statutory period began on August 1, 2018, when the applicant returned to the United States. Therefore, the earliest the applicant may re-apply for naturalization is February 1, 2023, which is at least 6 months from the 5-year anniversary of the pertinent statutory period.

 

Of course if you apply under the 3 year rule this becomes 2 years and 6 months and then you are probably eligible to apply now or soon (depending again on exact date of return) but then you are back to your original problem. Again it is not clear from what you’ve said if there was a 180+ day absence from the US within the last 5 years, so this may or may not be a problem.
 

 

 

Hi there! Seems you know a lot about this.. 

 

Is the three year rule basically presence for 2 years and 6 months (meaning you only left for 6 months in total), and thus can apply for naturalization then? 

[SusieQQQ 11,586]

10 minutes ago, dazedandconfused2 said:

Hi there! Seems you know a lot about this.. 

 

Is the three year rule basically presence for 2 years and 6 months (meaning you only left for 6 months in total), and thus can apply for naturalization then? 

The 2 years 6 months in that post refers to when someone would be eligible to apply for naturalization if they had broken continuous residence on a >6 months but <1 year basis.  I am not sure from the way you phrased this if that is what you are asking or not.