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‘Covid-19 made in Wuhan lab controlled by China govt’, claims virologist, offers evidence

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4 hours ago, Steeleballz said:

 

   I'm not concerned with them banning her one way or the other, but I would like to hear what proof she has. So far it's just allegations and contrary to the findings of multiple virology laboratories who are currently working with the SARS-CoV-2 genome. If she has more to say, she probably should do so. Her 15 minutes are already dwindling. 

but I thought unnamed sources were all the rage

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6 hours ago, Steeleballz said:

 

   I'm not concerned with them banning her one way or the other, but I would like to hear what proof she has. So far it's just allegations and contrary to the findings of multiple virology laboratories who are currently working with the SARS-CoV-2 genome. If she has more to say, she probably should do so. Her 15 minutes are already dwindling. 

It's to my understanding this 'report' has been picked apart already from those that are solid on the subject and the funding that backed this was highly questionable. Why do people always want to stretch to fantasy instead of recognizing that viruses have been making these evolutionary leaps and spreading through the population... since... ever? Why is it so difficult to grasp? We've now got crazy people going around saying the 1918 pandemic was caused by a bioweapon and botched 'vaccines'. I wonder what they will come up with for sweating sickness and the bubonic plague. 

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14 hours ago, Steeleballz said:

Yeah, Twitter and FB are bastions of facts.

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Snoop Dog said Bubonic Chronic this morning in a song when I was walking. Still laughing I have heard Gin and Juice many times but never picked up on that 

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2 hours ago, yuna628 said:

It's to my understanding this 'report' has been picked apart already from those that are solid on the subject and the funding that backed this was highly questionable. Why do people always want to stretch to fantasy instead of recognizing that viruses have been making these evolutionary leaps and spreading through the population... since... ever? Why is it so difficult to grasp? We've now got crazy people going around saying the 1918 pandemic was caused by a bioweapon and botched 'vaccines'. I wonder what they will come up with for sweating sickness and the bubonic plague. 

Why hasn't SARS-CoV-2/Covid-19 been found in nature to date?  I believe all the evidence I have been reading is point towards a human-modified virus via a natural mutation process.

 

https://www.wionews.com/opinions-blogs/covid-19-virus-has-properties-that-have-never-been-found-in-nature-before-304229

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29 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

Why hasn't SARS-CoV-2/Covid-19 been found in nature to date?  I believe all the evidence I have been reading is point towards a human-modified virus via a natural mutation process.

 

https://www.wionews.com/opinions-blogs/covid-19-virus-has-properties-that-have-never-been-found-in-nature-before-304229

Claims made in that article, have been debunked repeatedly and the final peer reviewed draft never made such claims at all. https://abcnews.go.com/Health/virologists-vigorously-debunk-study-origins-coronavirus/story?id=71097846 https://apnews.com/afs:Content:9391149002 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01989-z https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01541-z#:~:text=A product of nature,likely arose from natural processes. https://bgr.com/2020/06/10/coronavirus-origin-wuhan-lab-controversial-vaccine-research-debunked/ https://www.modernhealthcare.com/safety-quality/covid-19-not-man-made-comparative-genomic-study-finds https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/the-new-coronavirus-was-not-genetically-engineered-study-shows https://www.acsh.org/news/2020/09/15/covid-no-coronavirus-wasnt-created-laboratory-genetics-shows-why-15029 https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-05-09/was-the-coronavirus-made-in-a-wuhan-lab-heres-what-the-genetic-evidence-shows

 

There's more links.. page after page after page.. but it won't matter I guess. You believe what you want, but there is no science there for it.

 

Edited by yuna628

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19 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

Ok, so if it wasn't modified in a lab like this lady is claiming, then why hasn't it been found anywhere in nature, still to this day?  The claim that it started with SARS-CoV-2 then combined with other naturally-occurring virus elements and allowed to mutate over years makes more sense to me than an invisible virus.  I'm not talking about a man-made virus, all evidence points to that being impossible.
 

 

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Certainly, our and other analyses of the genomic sequence of the virus do not reveal any artificial gene inserts that would be the hallmark of a gene jockey, genetic engineers who manipulate or even create viruses by splicing in artificial inserts into their genome. These are generally easily recognisable and hence clear signatures of human intervention in the creation of a virus. The fact that these artificial inserts are not present has been interpreted by some to mean this virus is not the result of human manipulation.

 

However, this logic is incorrect as there are other ways in which humans can manipulate viruses and that is caused by natural selection. What do I mean? All viruses and bacteria mutate and adapt to their environment over time, with selection of the fittest individuals for survival in that particular environment.

 

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Just now, Voice of Reason said:

Ok, so if it wasn't modified in a lab like this lady is claiming, then why hasn't it been found anywhere in nature, still to this day?  The claim that it started with SARS-CoV-2 then combined with other naturally-occurring virus elements and allowed to mutate over years makes more sense to me than an invisible virus.  I'm not talking about a man-made virus, all evidence points to that being impossible.

 

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An analysis6 published in Nature Medicine on 17 March discusses several unusual features of the virus, and suggests how they likely arose from natural processes. For starters, when performing experiments that seek to genetically modify a virus, researchers have to use the RNA of an existing coronavirus as a backbone. If scientists had worked on the new coronavirus, it’s likely that they would have used a known backbone. But the study’s authors report that no known viruses recorded in the scientific literature could have served as a backbone to create SARS-CoV-2.

 

 

To enter cells, coronaviruses use a ‘receptor binding domain’ (RDB) to latch onto a receptor on the cell’s surface. SARS-CoV-2’s RBD has sections that are unlike those in any other coronavirus. Although experimental evidence — and the sheer size of the pandemic — shows that the virus binds very successfully to human cells, the authors note that computer analyses of its unique RBD parts predict that it shouldn’t bind well. The authors suggest that as a result, no one trying to engineer a virus would design the RBD in this way — which makes it more likely that the feature emerged as a result of natural selection.

The authors also point to another unusual feature of SARS-CoV-2, which is also part of the mechanism that helps the virus to work its way into human cells, known as the furin cleavage site. The authors argue that natural processes can explain how this feature emerged. Indeed, a similar site has been identified in a closely-related coronavirus, supporting the authors claim that the components of SARS-CoV-2 could all have emerged from natural processes. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01541-z#:~:text=A product of nature,likely arose from natural processes.

 

It has been not yet over a year since we first discovered this infection, and science takes time. You do know these things take time right? There is good evidence to suggest that this came from bats (96% similarity), but we certainly need a long process (perhaps years) to research this subject. Bats, as I've said are an absolutely wonderful species that have a special purpose by design. And it is that same design that makes them a rather perfect vessel for a disease like this to survive, change, and learn to adapt. In every single one of disease like this that cross over into humans it requires very specific circumstances in the evolutionary process, the mathematics of which I cannot even begin to comprehend (though I'm sure someone has). The conditions have to be right.  

 

Think of the common cold. One day this virus appeared in nature, though I would assume we'd of had no idea about it's origins, and I suspect it being new would have been devastating to the population as it spread. Eventually we evolved to mostly be able to survive it. I have heard the theory that perhaps this virus will too one day become something like that. Coronaviruses exist in nature, I believe the closest relative some 55 million years back. What a long time to evolve! Some have perfected their process and learned how not to be lethal, and others are pretty deadly. We have studied them for some time. This one has several changes in it's evolution to perhaps ensure its better survival and it will continue to mutate as it goes along. I cannot say how long it has been evolving but I'd assume a very long time, and these changes it has made to itself may not always be the optimal ones, even as it continues to kill and natural selection provides it a boost. As this article mentions:

 

Quote

While the analyses above suggest that SARS-CoV-2 may bind human ACE2 with high affinity, computational analyses predict that the interaction is not ideal7 and that the RBD sequence is different from those shown in SARS-CoV to be optimal for receptor binding7,11. Thus, the high-affinity binding of the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein to human ACE2 is most likely the result of natural selection on a human or human-like ACE2 that permits another optimal binding solution to arise. This is strong evidence that SARS-CoV-2 is not the product of purposeful manipulation. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9

The article above even goes on to suggest that based on several characteristics it has, that there are likely other coronaviruses out there that we humans in our limited capacity haven't discovered yet, but will eventually in other species. Once we know more, scientists may be able to predict how much time we may have left before another species makes that same jump. The article also extensively discusses point by point the most likely natural selection process.

 

I am not open to a suggestion that it is a modified (engineered partially or entirely) virus or a bioweapon. Could it have been collected, identified, studied, and escaped from a lab by accident? Perhaps, but I'm not willing to entirely bite on that theory either. We always want to search for something or someone to blame when an event happens, and I'm never sure why people never examine the most likely and natural origin that we know has been happening since existence. The common cold has been found described on ancient Egyptian scrolls, I am sure they thought any number of strange things about it, but we didn't have the ability to figure out its origin until the 40s/50s. I hope it will not take us that long this time.

 

Things are only invisible in science because we are too stupid to figure it out yet. Not meant to be an insult or anything to our species, but we did once think that the earth was flat.... and strangely some still do.

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2 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

Why hasn't SARS-CoV-2/Covid-19 been found in nature to date?  I believe all the evidence I have been reading is point towards a human-modified virus via a natural mutation process.

 

https://www.wionews.com/opinions-blogs/covid-19-virus-has-properties-that-have-never-been-found-in-nature-before-304229

 

    Why does it have to be found in nature? Viruses are not static. Antigenic shift occurs frequently and it can occur in any host. Take 2009 H1N1 for example. It has genetic material from pig, human and avian influenza viruses. Evidence strongly suggests it evolved in pigs, and several similar strains have been isolated from pigs, but that particular pandemic strain has only been isolated in humans. It's the nature of virology. The progenitor strain(s) likely no longer exist in the wild.

 

  With SARS-CoV-2, they are still guessing at what the original host may have been. If they can determine that for sure, then they can start to speculate how it might have evolved. For all we know the recombination event occurred recently, and possibly even occured in humans, but more than likely they will never find an identical strain in nature. That in and of itself doesn't indicate that SARS-CoV-2 was directly or indirectly manipulated.

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How recently is recent? It's not like we can rely on China, we know they were hiding the virus for months at minimum, and we know of their efforts to blame the US and engage in similar shady public relations efforts for a virus they clearly spread and should take responsibility for. We also know how widespread efforts across the globe are to appease China, knowing how guanxi works, to the point where they can have millions of slaves working slave labor and the world.. leaders, media, athletes, etc. go on like nothing is happening while crying like little so-and-suches about the bad orange man tweeting mean things.

 

These things alone do not make the *scientific* claims inherently true, but it necessitates further exploration and pulling away trade and cooperation with China if they want to hamper investigations into this lab and conduct. It is absolutely essential to determine if the claims made here are true, and it doesn't matter to me who likes it or who is comfortable with it.

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34 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

    Why does it have to be found in nature? Viruses are not static. Antigenic shift occurs frequently and it can occur in any host. Take 2009 H1N1 for example. It has genetic material from pig, human and avian influenza viruses. Evidence strongly suggests it evolved in pigs, and several similar strains have been isolated from pigs, but that particular pandemic strain has only been isolated in humans. It's the nature of virology. The progenitor strain(s) likely no longer exist in the wild.

 

  With SARS-CoV-2, they are still guessing at what the original host may have been. If they can determine that for sure, then they can start to speculate how it might have evolved. For all we know the recombination event occurred recently, and possibly even occured in humans, but more than likely they will never find an identical strain in nature. That in and of itself doesn't indicate that SARS-CoV-2 was directly or indirectly manipulated.

It doesn't disprove that either.  I mean what is it that virology labs do?

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3 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

It doesn't disprove that either.  I mean what is it that virology labs do?

 

    Correct, but generally the person making an allegation should have the proof to back it up. They are basically saying (in the report) - this is what we think happened, prove us wrong. The assertion is the scientific community is covering something up and complicit by not listening to them. What they should do is present the evidence they have that would force the scientific community respond (if they have it). I don't think that is the purpose of the report. It may be presented as if the scientific community is the target audience of the report, but they are not.

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16 minutes ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

How recently is recent? It's not like we can rely on China, we know they were hiding the virus for months at minimum, and we know of their efforts to blame the US and engage in similar shady public relations efforts for a virus they clearly spread and should take responsibility for. We also know how widespread efforts across the globe are to appease China, knowing how guanxi works, to the point where they can have millions of slaves working slave labor and the world.. leaders, media, athletes, etc. go on like nothing is happening while crying like little so-and-suches about the bad orange man tweeting mean things.

 

These things alone do not make the *scientific* claims inherently true, but it necessitates further exploration and pulling away trade and cooperation with China if they want to hamper investigations into this lab and conduct. It is absolutely essential to determine if the claims made here are true, and it doesn't matter to me who likes it or who is comfortable with it.

 

     I don't see this going anywhere unless they have something more convincing than what they have presented so far. They say they do have more (in the report), but at some point they need to come forth with that in a way that is convincing enough to go through peer review. The report is basically saying the laboratory took a known isolate and made it more virulent by direct genetic manipulation. I haven't seen any evidence of direct viral manipulation. It's still possible they were doing something with a laboratory isolate and it got out. A natural recombination event (between two strains) could have taken place prior to that or could have taken place after that. A recombination event could also have occured naturally in a host at any time, either human or intermediate host. The 2019 strain of SARS-CoV-2 may not have existed prior to that.

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