I-864 Do I need a Joint Sponsor if Unemployed/Furloughed

[SteveInBostonI130 3,328]

On 4/21/2020 at 1:05 AM, pushbrk said:

So the day you go back to work, your current income is whatever it will be for twelve months at your current rate.  It really IS that simple.

 

 

Hi,

 

I'm revisiting this topic because, from what I've read online, this does not seem to be the case.   The I-864 instruction specifically states evidence can be submitted for "expected income for the current year", which seems to mean taxable income from various sources for the current year.

 

And I also read guidance that, for example, a person is hired on July 1 at $40,000 per year, the current annual income should be filled out as $20,000, provided the person had no income from Jan 1 to June 30.  Future income will be $40k, but not current.  

 

So, has anyone had experience with this?  Please, not what anyone has interpreted, but have personally discussed with USCIS or have witnessed someone being approved/rejected on their I-864 application?

 

 

[geowrian 22,336]

22 minutes ago, SteveInBostonI130 said:

I'm revisiting this topic because, from what I've read online, this does not seem to be the case.   The I-864 instruction specifically states evidence can be submitted for "expected income for the current year", which seems to mean taxable income from various sources for the current year.

 

And I also read guidance that, for example, a person is hired on July 1 at $40,000 per year, the current annual income should be filled out as $20,000, provided the person had no income from Jan 1 to June 30.  Future income will be $40k, but not current.  

 

So, has anyone had experience with this?  Please, not what anyone has interpreted, but have personally discussed with USCIS or have witnessed someone being approved/rejected on their I-864 application?

1) Logically, what you made in the past has nothing to do with current income. For instance, if I earn $50,000/year and get laid off at the end of June, my current income is NOT $25,000 just because I earned that so far. My current income is $0 because I have none. I am unable to support anybody on $0 income (assuming no assets).

Alternatively, if I was unemployed for 6 months of a year then get hired, my current income is not $0 just because I had none previously in the year. I mean..I'd love to claim that for various reasons, but it's simply not accurate. I'd have $50,000/year in income to support somebody whether I was hired in January, July, or December.

 

2) I will reiterate that it asks about current income, not taxable income (or taxed income). People absolutely have provided a satisfactory I-864 using non-taxable income as their current income.

 

3) I'm not sure what is meant by "personally discussed with USCIS". USCIS is an government entity - they do not speak.

USCIS has no role in the CO's public charge decision, but I'll just assume this is a 'what if" scenario where it was an AOS case instead, in which IOs are involved and are guided by USCIS policies.

 

Under that assumption, I will assume you mean spoke with an IO about what qualifies or not. I have not personally done so.

At the same time, I have seen many have success using this process. Just as one set of examples, students regularly do this. A student that graduates in the spring and starts a full time-position in summer can (and have) successfully sponsor(ed) a spouse with an I-864 completed prior to the end of the tax year.
There are also many who live abroad and have $0 in taxed income due to the FEIE (technically this excludes the tax generated by the income, but it's the same thing for this purpose...the total income line does not include it) but have sponsored a relative (because if that income would continue from the same source upon return to the US, it can be counted still). There's also military, caretakers, etc. that have non-taxed income that qualify fine.

 

At the end of the day, the advice provided has actually been used and is effective.

[pushbrk 12,222]

6 hours ago, SteveInBostonI130 said:

 

Hi,

 

I'm revisiting this topic because, from what I've read online, this does not seem to be the case.   The I-864 instruction specifically states evidence can be submitted for "expected income for the current year", which seems to mean taxable income from various sources for the current year.

 

And I also read guidance that, for example, a person is hired on July 1 at $40,000 per year, the current annual income should be filled out as $20,000, provided the person had no income from Jan 1 to June 30.  Future income will be $40k, but not current.  

 

So, has anyone had experience with this?  Please, not what anyone has interpreted, but have personally discussed with USCIS or have witnessed someone being approved/rejected on their I-864 application?

 

 

Yes, the advice I gave works every time it's used. Note that USCIS will not be involved in evaluating your affidavit of support.  NVC will initially look at it but a Consular Officer will make the ultimate decision.

 

To be more specific, I am personally aware of numerous affidavits where current income was calculated as I described and visas issued.  Yes, I actually have sat and talked, to a Consular Officer working in an Immigrant Visa Unit.

 

For my own affidavit of support in 2006, I used a different formula because commission was involved.  I averaged the income year to date and multiplied that average by 12, because even though it was W2 income and I was "employed" there was no hourly rate or salary to use for the calculation.

 

Not one of my first few hundred rodeos here.

[NikLR 13,220]

For example my husband was hired at his current job in Sept 2012. His income was 60k a year at the time (i havent a clue what it was just grabbing a number) but between mid Sept to Dec he made 15k. His current income was 60k even though his ytd for 2012 was 15k and his ytd at my interview was 30k. Yes I went to the CO with these pay stubs and it was fine.  We even had a year prior that showed a 12k year because he was deployed and his income wasnt taxable on deployment but his LES showed he made 3x that. 

[Villanelle 4,121]

On 5/4/2020 at 11:01 AM, SteveInBostonI130 said:

 

Hi,

 

I'm revisiting this topic because, from what I've read online, this does not seem to be the case.   The I-864 instruction specifically states evidence can be submitted for "expected income for the current year", which seems to mean taxable income from various sources for the current year.

 

And I also read guidance that, for example, a person is hired on July 1 at $40,000 per year, the current annual income should be filled out as $20,000, provided the person had no income from Jan 1 to June 30.  Future income will be $40k, but not current.  

 

So, has anyone had experience with this?  Please, not what anyone has interpreted, but have personally discussed with USCIS or have witnessed someone being approved/rejected on their I-864 application?

 

 

I think the problem you are having is you are confusing terms. There is 'current income' and 'expected income'. As explained current income means income you are presently receiving weekly/monthly because you are actively being paid. You are required to list your current income on the 864. You can list expected income however for something to be considered as expected income you have to look at what proof you are presenting. As Pshbrk outlined he listed his current income to include commissions he expected to receive. If you have a side job with pending contracts for work you havent completed yet (so not paid for yet) then yes, those can be viewed as expected income. But expected income is NOT Im going to find a job or Ill be able to get a similar job. If you have the job then it would be current income, if you dont then you cant use a possible job as expected income. Expected income has to have some sort of documentation to support its going to happen. Do you have anything like that? If not you will need to enter current income which is whatever it is on the day you fill it out. 

 

 

[SteveInBostonI130 3,328]

Hi,

 

I meant to say reported income rather than taxable income.

 

Pushbrk brought up something.  What happens when there is no fixed hourly or annual salary?  A gig worker, an artist that sells paintings, a construction contractor that works on short term projects, an independent IT or business consultant.

 

If you are between work, finishing a house build but waiting on a potential new client, you would have to report a current income of 0?  As I mentioned, the I-864 instruction explicitly states "expected income for the current year".  

 

For someone to go on public assistance, I believe their reported income has to be below a certain amount for the year that person is requesting assistance.  To not allow that income evidence to be presented or used to calculate current income seems like a catch 22 situation.  "You made too much currently in 2020 to be granted assistance., but your current income signify you are under public charge..."

 

[SteveInBostonI130 3,328]

8 hours ago, NikLR said:

For example my husband was hired at his current job in Sept 2012. His income was 60k a year at the time (i havent a clue what it was just grabbing a number) but between mid Sept to Dec he made 15k. His current income was 60k even though his ytd for 2012 was 15k and his ytd at my interview was 30k. Yes I went to the CO with these pay stubs and it was fine.  We even had a year prior that showed a 12k year because he was deployed and his income wasnt taxable on deployment but his LES showed he made 3x that. 

Hi,

 

Thank you for sharing your experience.  It counters something from a immigration lawyer website.  It's good information for have in hand.

[geowrian 22,336]

1 hour ago, SteveInBostonI130 said:

Pushbrk brought up something.  What happens when there is no fixed hourly or annual salary?  A gig worker, an artist that sells paintings, a construction contractor that works on short term projects, an independent IT or business consultant.

 

If you are between work, finishing a house build but waiting on a potential new client, you would have to report a current income of 0?  As I mentioned, the I-864 instruction explicitly states "expected income for the current year".

Those situations are covered under self-employment. The way to calculate income for self-employment differs than that of an employee.

For self-employed individuals, current income is determined by your most recent year's tax return. Money earned within the year is revenue, not income. Just because I received $100k in contracts does not mean I had $100k in income....I could even have a negative income by the end of the year in that case.

Expected income would include contracts and such.

[pushbrk 12,222]

8 hours ago, SteveInBostonI130 said:

Hi,

 

I meant to say reported income rather than taxable income.

 

Pushbrk brought up something.  What happens when there is no fixed hourly or annual salary?  A gig worker, an artist that sells paintings, a construction contractor that works on short term projects, an independent IT or business consultant.

 

If you are between work, finishing a house build but waiting on a potential new client, you would have to report a current income of 0?  As I mentioned, the I-864 instruction explicitly states "expected income for the current year".  

 

For someone to go on public assistance, I believe their reported income has to be below a certain amount for the year that person is requesting assistance.  To not allow that income evidence to be presented or used to calculate current income seems like a catch 22 situation.  "You made too much currently in 2020 to be granted assistance., but your current income signify you are under public charge..."

 

For the "self employed," "Current income is the "total income" from their most recent federal tax return.  This is because it is only "revenue," not "income," until it is on a tax return and the business expenses have been deducted.  You are not "self employed" so this is irrelevant to your case.

[pushbrk 12,222]

16 hours ago, Villanelle said:

I think the problem you are having is you are confusing terms. There is 'current income' and 'expected income'. As explained current income means income you are presently receiving weekly/monthly because you are actively being paid. You are required to list your current income on the 864. You can list expected income however for something to be considered as expected income you have to look at what proof you are presenting. As Pshbrk outlined he listed his current income to include commissions he expected to receive. If you have a side job with pending contracts for work you havent completed yet (so not paid for yet) then yes, those can be viewed as expected income. But expected income is NOT Im going to find a job or Ill be able to get a similar job. If you have the job then it would be current income, if you dont then you cant use a possible job as expected income. Expected income has to have some sort of documentation to support its going to happen. Do you have anything like that? If not you will need to enter current income which is whatever it is on the day you fill it out. 

 

 

Right but the term "expected income" is not one used in an immigration context.  I just explained how I calculated my current income.  Most fully commissioned workers are "self employed" so would not calculate current income that way.

 

In some ways current income IS what you WILL (or expect) to earn in the next 12 months IF you keep your job.  Right now, a lot of people have no idea what to actually expect in terms of income for the next twelve months, but they would still calculate their "current income" from employment as I described.

[Villanelle 4,121]

From the instructions-

 

Enter your current individual earned or retirement annual income that you are using to meet the requirements of this affidavit and indicate the total on this line. You may include evidence supporting your claim about your expected income for the current year if you believe that submitting this evidence will help you establish the ability to maintain sufficient income.

 

This is where the OP got the phrase 'expected income'.  He then started googling around to try to figure out what it meant because it suggests you can use income you are anticipating like a job you dont have yet. Which is obviously incorrect. Its hard to give a specific definition of what would count as expected income because theres a huge variety of ways people earn money- impossible to document every situation that would qualify. Generally speaking though for something to count as 'expected' it needs to have some kind of 'starting' documentation like contracts. Commissions (in addition to set pay) also have an established origin so to speak. You'd show you are in an active position and qualify to receive them. A job you dont have but could get would not count as expected. That would be more under 'potential income' and potential expected income can also be used to help strengthen your 864. If you show you have a degree and are currently in an entry level job with potential to be promoted due to the degree once you put the time in at the company, (of course you would not list that future jobs income) but you could do as the instructions state- provide evidence of potential future income to establish you are able to maintain sufficient income. 

 

And then as others have stated if you are self-employed figuring out what is current/expected income is done differently with different documentation provided and also requires at least 1 yr of tax returns where it shows how much you took in in profits, how much was written off as expenses and how much that left you in actual income they would count. Since this is not the OPs case its not helpful to the discussion and will only cause more confusion since its N/A. If the OP does wish to do more research on 'expected income' he needs to make sure he is looking at information about employed individuals and not self employed. 

 

 

[pushbrk 12,222]

4 hours ago, Villanelle said:

From the instructions-

 

Enter your current individual earned or retirement annual income that you are using to meet the requirements of this affidavit and indicate the total on this line. You may include evidence supporting your claim about your expected income for the current year if you believe that submitting this evidence will help you establish the ability to maintain sufficient income.

 

This is where the OP got the phrase 'expected income'.  He then started googling around to try to figure out what it meant because it suggests you can use income you are anticipating like a job you dont have yet. Which is obviously incorrect. Its hard to give a specific definition of what would count as expected income because theres a huge variety of ways people earn money- impossible to document every situation that would qualify. Generally speaking though for something to count as 'expected' it needs to have some kind of 'starting' documentation like contracts. Commissions (in addition to set pay) also have an established origin so to speak. You'd show you are in an active position and qualify to receive them. A job you dont have but could get would not count as expected. That would be more under 'potential income' and potential expected income can also be used to help strengthen your 864. If you show you have a degree and are currently in an entry level job with potential to be promoted due to the degree once you put the time in at the company, (of course you would not list that future jobs income) but you could do as the instructions state- provide evidence of potential future income to establish you are able to maintain sufficient income. 

 

And then as others have stated if you are self-employed figuring out what is current/expected income is done differently with different documentation provided and also requires at least 1 yr of tax returns where it shows how much you took in in profits, how much was written off as expenses and how much that left you in actual income they would count. Since this is not the OPs case its not helpful to the discussion and will only cause more confusion since its N/A. If the OP does wish to do more research on 'expected income' he needs to make sure he is looking at information about employed individuals and not self employed. 

 

 

The instructions are generally excellent but the phrase "expected income for the current year" was poorly proofread when creating the form.  Evidently, the proofreader did not understand that, in actual practice, it's not the current year but a full year going forward.  This is the practice both at USCIS...AND...at Consulates.  Really!  Yes, I'm sure! 

 

In practice, and in real life, if you lost your job yesterday, your income is ZERO, but if you start a new job today at $X annual salary etc. your current income equals that $x.

Edited May 7, 2020 by pushbrk