All things Corona Virus

[Boiler 43,805]

4 minutes ago, laylalex said:

I agree that there needs to be nuance, and I agree that there needs to be balance between wrapping everyone in bubble wrap/cotton wool and the economy and society withering away completely. Macron's voice is, on this matter, one I am willing to listen to. 

 

So we end up where we didn't want to be when we were all talking about Obamacare and its supposed death panels -- who gets to live and who should essentially sacrifice themselves in order for the entire world to keep from imploding? It's not nice and it is worrisome. I expect I would fall into the category of "save" -- young and upper middle class and educated (or educated enough). My dad and mom are 65, so in a higher risk group, but they're both professionals, so do they make the cut? How about my grandma in her late 80s -- she's still sharp and goes (or went until recently) to the gym and had an active social life -- but she's not an active component in the economy any longer, and she was "only" a secretary, "only" graduated high school. Maybe she doesn't get the ventilator. 

 

None of it is nice, no, not at all. 

I need a fluffy bunny right now, and that one is pretty cute. ❤️ 

The death panels comment always amused me, there is no equality, never has been never will be. Never can be. In the UK you will come across the Post Code lottery being mentioned, US is more pure money based but even so where I am fairly irrelevant as not much in the way of provision, anything significant and they call the helicopter. 

 

I suppose you could come up with a scoring system, akin to say how Canada assess those it will allow to immigrate? Favours younger than older, qualified vs unqualified, skilled vs unskilled, healthy vs unhealthy.

 

Class, gym usage and active social life unlikely to mean much I am afraid under any system.

 

I can the issues, generally those with the resources tend to be older and often more political active so resources are inevitable skewed in their direction. As my Granny said there are no pockets in a shroud.

[laylalex 7,266]

Just now, Sonotony said:

How is this a death panel? This is a free country and your parents and grandparents are free to isolate as long as they want to. Nobody is stopping them. My mother is in her 70’s and has reclused herself for years. Nobody makes her come out.

 

If your family is afraid of contamination, they can keep their doors shut as long as they want to.

I'm talking about some of the things that some irresponsible (in my opinion) politicians have been saying about how the orders should be lifted and that older people hey, they might be casualties of this. Look at what Lt Gov Patrick said, that he'd essentially sacrifice himself. 

 

My mom is a PCP. She believes she has a duty to serve and treat patients. It worries me to no end but she has a profession that calls on her to make this sacrifice. But what is the point of needlessly and arbitrarily choosing a date to say "open for business" when the science is saying "we can't say it's safe enough yet"? 

 

We, I think, have a duty to protect each other. We are not individual planets that never come within each other's orbit but rather stars in a constellation. We all need to make sacrifices -- painful sacrifices -- now to prevent the spread. Opening the doors now, or even soon, is unlikely to do that. I agree we need to reopen but I refuse to believe that some date pulled from the ether and not supported by scientists and economists is the way to go.

[laylalex 7,266]

6 minutes ago, Boiler said:

The death panels comment always amused me, there is no equality, never has been never will be. Never can be. In the UK you will come across the Post Code lottery being mentioned, US is more pure money based but even so where I am fairly irrelevant as not much in the way of provision, anything significant and they call the helicopter. 

 

I suppose you could come up with a scoring system, akin to say how Canada assess those it will allow to immigrate? Favours younger than older, qualified vs unqualified, skilled vs unskilled, healthy vs unhealthy.

 

Class, gym usage and active social life unlikely to mean much I am afraid under any system.

 

I can the issues, generally those with the resources tend to be older and often more political active so resources are inevitable skewed in their direction. As my Granny said there are no pockets in a shroud.

It's America, so it always comes down to money. I'm in a position to throw as much money as needed at my family to protect them, and we'd probably all weather the storms all right. But it's not right that through a complete fluke I come out on top and on the "resuscitate" list again and again and again when my neighbors might not. 

 

The surreality of this moment in time is overwhelming to me. A few weeks ago I was thinking about wedding colors and now I'm thinking about whether there should be a scoring system as to who gets the thumbs up and who the thumbs down, like some twisted "Roman emperor in the Coliseum" scenario.

 

I should probably just start drinking even though it's daytime, right?

[yuna628 9,547]

1 hour ago, Sonotony said:

Sooo... I usually donate blood through the Red Cross several times a year.  Lately, I have heard so much on TV about the blood shortage and also received several emails begging me to donate blood.  I live just outside Chicago and went to the website and saw they don’t have a donation time for me until May 5.  The problem seems to be more with the Red Cross than potential donors. I am begging for them to take my blood, but they don’t want it until May.

Weird. It's so bad here we're having blood drives in various locations. They aren't kicking people out or pushing it until May. But I feel ya, I'm having the same problems with multiple doctors!

[Steeleballz 7,550]

19 minutes ago, Sonotony said:

How is this a death panel? This is a free country and your parents and grandparents are free to isolate as long as they want to. Nobody is stopping them. My mother is in her 70’s and has reclused herself for years. Nobody makes her come out.

 

If your family is afraid of contamination, they can keep their doors shut as long as they want to.

 

  And people less than 30 who don't stay home? When they come to ER with severe pneumonia, can we just tell them I told you so and send them home? 

[Boiler 43,805]

4 minutes ago, laylalex said:

It's America, so it always comes down to money. I'm in a position to throw as much money as needed at my family to protect them, and we'd probably all weather the storms all right. But it's not right that through a complete fluke I come out on top and on the "resuscitate" list again and again and again when my neighbors might not. 

 

The surreality of this moment in time is overwhelming to me. A few weeks ago I was thinking about wedding colors and now I'm thinking about whether there should be a scoring system as to who gets the thumbs up and who the thumbs down, like some twisted "Roman emperor in the Coliseum" scenario.

 

I should probably just start drinking even though it's daytime, right?

It comes down to power which is mostly related now and here to money.

 

And there are many factors in place, some of which can be helped with money some not, There was some weepy film on which I decided I could not watch where both the main characters had cancer, to the extent that no matter how much money could have been thrown at them it would not matter. Actually being morbid I can think of situations where money has been thrown at people where it should not have been and life has been prolonged for no obvious benefit and a lot of suffering.

 

The comment about Wedding to the Coliseum also somewhat amuses me, after all there has been no significant change in life expectancy in your age group, the perception may well have changed. Reminds of somebody I knew, he had a ranch locally and a place in Vail, after the 2008 downturn he was telling me how a lot of the people he knew in Vail were cutting back, not going out, buying cheaper wines etc etc, he was well past retirement age and pointed out that most of them would never live long enough to spend all their money. To quote Napoleon the physcological to the physical is as 10 is to 1.

 

I am amused to watch this happening, explains a lot I never understood reading the histories.

[Boiler 43,805]

12 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

  And people less than 30 who don't stay home? When they come to ER with severe pneumonia, can we just tell them I told you so and send them home? 

It has been a few years since I was at the Doctors and the Hospital with my Mum, and I assume UK and US are not that different, but they would be the odd one out, much more likely to be 80 with a compromised system.

Edited March 25, 2020 by Boiler

[Steeleballz 7,550]

1 minute ago, Boiler said:

It has been a few years since I was at the Doctors and the Hospital with my Mum, and I assume UK and US are not that different, but they would be the odd one out, much more likely to be 80 with a compromised system.

 

   Sure, older people are more likely to die if they catch it. That's why many people 65+ are staying home as much as they can. Younger people are going to be infected at a much higher rate if they won't stay home. They are going to be the ones catching it more often. Some of them will still get severe symptoms and need to be in ICU. Some of them won't get in if/when there are no beds available.

 

   

 

[Sonotony 82]

45 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

  And people less than 30 who don't stay home? When they come to ER with severe pneumonia, can we just tell them I told you so and send them home? 

What are you talking about? People of any age are free to stay home. That being said, if you are under 30, you have a greater chance of being killed in a car accident on the way to the hospital. Should we make cars illegal too?

[Sonotony 82]

1 hour ago, laylalex said:

It's America, so it always comes down to money. I'm in a position to throw as much money as needed at my family to protect them, and we'd probably all weather the storms all right. But it's not right that through a complete fluke I come out on top and on the "resuscitate" list again and again and again when my neighbors might not. 

 

The surreality of this moment in time is overwhelming to me. A few weeks ago I was thinking about wedding colors and now I'm thinking about whether there should be a scoring system as to who gets the thumbs up and who the thumbs down, like some twisted "Roman emperor in the Coliseum" scenario.

 

I should probably just start drinking even though it's daytime, right?

I think you are letting your imagination run wild with you. Things aren’t even close to that point yet. And you were pretty safe in Roman times... as long as you weren’t a Christian... pretty much like now.

[Boiler 43,805]

Peoples perception of risk is very often far removed from reality, quite interesting, they will go to a lot of effort to avoid risks that are pretty minimal yet embrace others much more obvious.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

1 minute ago, Sonotony said:

What are you talking about? People of any age are free to stay home. That being said, if you are under 30, you have a greater chance of being killed in a car accident on the way to the hospital. Should we make cars illegal too?

 

  I've never seen a hospital cancel all elective surgeries for a month because we are filling up with car accident victims. Have you seen that?

[90DayFinancier 910]

6 minutes ago, Sonotony said:

What are you talking about? People of any age are free to stay home. That being said, if you are under 30, you have a greater chance of being killed in a car accident on the way to the hospital. Should we make cars illegal too?

I have no idea where you pulled these numbers from.

[laylalex 7,266]

6 minutes ago, Sonotony said:

I think you are letting your imagination run wild with you. Things aren’t even close to that point yet. And you were pretty safe in Roman times... as long as you weren’t a Christian... pretty much like now.

It was a metaphor using exaggeration for effect.  I'm okay, still working on those wedding colors.

 

What I'm talking about is that it is not out of the question that doctors and healthcare professionals are going to have to make these kind of decisions: whose life is worth more? Doctors in other countries are already talking about it. We are not so very exceptional that it's beyond the realm of possibility that these decisions will become a reality. Maybe not! I hope not. But without more ventilators, more ICU beds, more PPE, etc. we are positioning ourselves so that it becomes more likely than less. Here in CA, Elon Musk has gone from scoffing at the virus to bringing in a thousand more ventilators from China, and he's transitioning his plant to make more. Good. We need more of this.

[Sonotony 82]

3 minutes ago, 90DayFinancier said:

I have no idea where you pulled these numbers from.

NY times did an article a while back. Your chances of dying in a car crash are 1 in 103. 1.25 Million People die in car crashes every year. 3,287 people die EVERY DAY in car crashes. Half of those are young people 15-44. An additional  20-50 million People become disabled in car crashes every year.  
IF you are under 30 and IF you are diagnosed with coronavirus, your chances of dying are less than .2%