The Political Perils of Supporting Israel

[TBoneTX 45,524]

Regardless of one's opinions on the matter, this well-written article provokes thought and clarifies issues that have been under a murky surface for who knows how long.

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The Political Perils of Supporting Israel

by David Harsanyi
AUGUST 22, 2019

During his diatribe about the recent exploits of anti-Israel Democrats Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib, President Donald Trump dropped this line: "And I think any Jewish people that vote for a Democrat, I think it shows either a total lack of knowledge or great disloyalty."

An uproar followed due to the president's use of the word "disloyalty," which usually insinuates [...]

Continues here: https://thefederalist.com/2019/08/22/the-perils-of-supporting-israel/

 

Edited August 23, 2019 by TBoneTX

[fip & jim 452]

On 8/23/2019 at 2:03 AM, TBoneTX said:

Clarifies issues that have been under a murky surface for who knows how long.

Clarifies what, TB? The Israel issue? 

 

It's not anti-Semitic (a race) to criticize a state (a political entity), no more than it is "disloyal" for an ethnicity of people to vote whichever way they choose.

 

Taken in the entire context of the current geopolitical tension in the Middle East I'd say this has a lot to do with Iran's nuclear program. 

Somebody sure has a knack for causing a furor. 

[fip & jim 452]

 

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,376]

Wonder why you never hear about how Jordan took the largest percentage of Palestine. 

 

[OriZ 3,157]

6 hours ago, fip & jim said:

 

 

"Both sides committed acts of violence" lol.

 

While the statement itself is factual, it totally ignores cause and effect and tries to mitigate this:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_and_massacres_in_Mandatory_Palestine

 

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-hebron-massacre-of-1929

 

Also, way to ignore the fact that while some were expelled, many others also chose to leave voluntarily because their leaders assured them they will be able to come back to their homes once they win. 

 

It also states about the six day war "Israel was now occupying all of the Palestinian territories" one second after it states it occupied them from Egypt and Jordan lol. So here's the deal: since the Arabs in Palestine rejected the plan, there was never a Palestinian state, hence, there are no "palestinian territories".  No one has ever actually "owned" these territories since the British and the French. Egypt and Jordan themselves, were owning land that didn't really belong to them(though nobody seemed to care then), but didn't actually belong to anyone. And then Israel took over it from them, and now Israel owns a territory it took from Egypt and Jordan, which never belonged to Egypt and Jordan, which was never Palestinian, and so it's not "occupying all of the palestinian lands", the territories can be considered disputed, but not occupied by any accurate definition(and yes, "international law" can kiss my donkey).

 

There's more in there I could point out but don't have much time tonight. D- for accuracy.

 

 

 

[fip & jim 452]

My country messed up too, in many places, but I don't attempt to justify it.

[OriZ 3,157]

7 hours ago, fip & jim said:

My country messed up too, in many places, but I don't attempt to justify it.

Me neither. I'm only here to point out obvious inaccuracies.

[fip & jim 452]

4 hours ago, OriZ said:

Me neither. I'm only here to point out obvious inaccuracies.

Do you have any ideas for how to manage the situation? 

This why I appreciate forums as spaces to debate. I'm not being antagonistic. I'm genuinely interested. 

[OriZ 3,157]

6 hours ago, fip & jim said:

Do you have any ideas for how to manage the situation? 

This why I appreciate forums as spaces to debate. I'm not being antagonistic. I'm genuinely interested. 

It is a quagmire. I have ideas, but I'm not that important. I'm a pragmatist, so I support a two state solution, but that doesn't cloud my judgment of what the history really is. The bottom line is neither people are going anywhere, and I agree with those - in the US and elsewhere - who say that the only way Israel can remain both Jewish and democratic, and not just one or the other, is with two states.

 

That said, I also recognize the reality of the region in its current state, which so many anti-Israel and at times blatantly anti-semitic organizations such as BDS choose to ignore. Israel can't simply withdraw tomorrow to the 1967 lines and there will be peace on earth; that has been attempted time and time again, including in Gaza and has never worked. Until they can reign in organizations like Hamas, agree to include important security measures in any final agreement, realize that Israel will not surrender the temple mount to them, and accept that the "right of return" won't happen, there won't be peace.