NATIONAL SECURITY Trump administration launches global effort to end criminalization of homosexuality

[TBoneTX 43,058]

1 hour ago, ALFKAD said:

Some even say it’s ok to kill those who do not believe the same way.

So much strife and so many massacres throughout history would have been avoided by shunning the philosophy of "I'm gonna save your soul, or I'm gonna kill you."

[Dashinka 23,246]

6 hours ago, beloved_dingo said:

Those soldiers have the same rights to express their religion. Just because these religious rights have different outward manifestations, doesn't mean they have "less rights". 

Wait, a business owner does not have religious rights, but a soldier does?  In my opinion, any business owner faces issues when they start injecting religion into their business.  I have religious beliefs, but in business the object is to make a living and quite honestly refusing to serve anyone for religious or other reasons is not a smart move economically IMHO.  The business world has ways of dealing with those types of businesses by not patronizing them, but I do have a problem with a government creating penalties, let the people make their own free choices wrong or right.

[beloved_dingo 1,932]

15 While Jesus was having dinner at Levi’s house, many tax collectors and sinners were eating with him and his disciples, for there were many who followed him. 16 When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?”

17 On hearing this, Jesus said to them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.” Mark 2:15-17

 

 37 And behold, a woman of the city, who was a sinner, when she learned that he was reclining at table in the Pharisee’s house, brought an alabaster flask of ointment, 38 and standing behind him at his feet, weeping, she began to wet his feet with her tears and wiped them with the hair of her head and kissed his feet and anointed them with the ointment. 39 Now when the Pharisee who had invited him saw this, he said to himself, “If this man were a prophet, he would have known who and what sort of woman this is who is touching him, for she is a sinner.” 40 And Jesus answering said to him, “Simon, I have something to say to you.” And he answered, “Say it, Teacher.”

41 “A certain moneylender had two debtors. One owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. 42 When they could not pay, he cancelled the debt of both. Now which of them will love him more?” 43 Simon answered, “The one, I suppose, for whom he cancelled the larger debt.” And he said to him, “You have judged rightly.” 44 Then turning toward the woman he said to Simon, “Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave me no water for my feet, but she has wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. 45 You gave me no kiss, but from the time I came in she has not ceased to kiss my feet. 46 You did not anoint my head with oil, but she has anointed my feet with ointment. 47 Therefore I tell you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven—for she loved much. But he who is forgiven little, loves little.” Luke 7:36–47

 

“Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. John 8:4-9

 

 8 Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins. 9 Offer hospitality to one another without grumbling. 1 Peter 4:8-9

 

Jesus would have no problem being in a room with "a gay". Treating a particular type of "sinner" like a lesser human being that is to be avoided is. not. Christian.

Edited February 22, 2019 by beloved_dingo

[Unidentified 2,930]

11 hours ago, ALFKAD said:

Hey now, I responded one by one to at least three of what you said.  Don’t get upset at me because I came back with facts that counter what you believe.  I am not saying the US is a utopia, and everyone is treated fairly; heck, I have been treated unfairly as a white male more than once in life.  But overall, I think things are fairly darn good here.  

As for the church/marriage thing, are you saying that religions which do not believe in gay marriage should be forced to conduct them, just because a gay shows up and asks them to?

Well, I specified getting married in a church and you said: "hey, all states have gay marriage!". Not quite the same  

 

Yeah, white men have it pretty good these days. 

 

Why does the church have so much power in this country? Where I come from, gay people can get married in a church. God loves everyone. Not here where Christians seem to have forgotten about that and hate almost everyone. Not all, but many of them. 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

7 minutes ago, Unidentified said:

Well, I specified getting married in a church and you said: "hey, all states have gay marriage!". Not quite the same  

 

Yeah, white men have it pretty good these days. 

 

Why does the church have so much power in this country? Where I come from, gay people can get married in a church. God loves everyone. Not here where Christians seem to have forgotten about that and hate almost everyone. Not all, but many of them. 

The bible is clearly against the gay lifestyle.  Doesn't matter if man has changed the state rules and now allow it to happen, but "men laying with men" is wrong according to the bible.  So why should a church go against biblical teaching just to accommodate two people who are going against God's word?

 

If a church doesn't want to marry a gay couple, move on and find one that does.  It's really that simple.  If a baker won't make a gay themed wedding cake, find one that does.  

 

Say you owned a t-shirt shop that did custom silk screening.  And say your religious beliefs did not support abortion.  Should you be forced to print up 1000 shirts with the picture of an aborted baby, and the slogan "Women can kill us if they want to!" on it? Or should you have a choice to do so?  Income or religious belief, it should be YOUR choice, I say.  The market will determine how well your business does, either way.  Because whichever choice you make, you are going to lose customers if the public finds out about it.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

1 hour ago, beloved_dingo said:

15 While Jesus was having dinner at Levi’s house, many tax collectors and sinners were eating with him and his disciples, .

It's great that you can quote scripture that you believe pertinent.  However, those verses have been changed a lot in the past 30 years to fit what a particular person or persons wanted them to say.

[Unidentified 2,930]

1 minute ago, ALFKAD said:

The bible is clearly against the gay lifestyle.  Doesn't matter if man has changed the state rules and now allow it to happen, but "men laying with men" is wrong according to the bible.  So why should a church go against biblical teaching just to accommodate two people who are going against God's word?

 

If a church doesn't want to marry a gay couple, move on and find one that does.  It's really that simple.  If a baker won't make a gay themed wedding cake, find one that does.  

 

Say you owned a t-shirt shop that did custom silk screening.  And say your religious beliefs did not support abortion.  Should you be forced to print up 1000 shirts with the picture of an aborted baby, and the slogan "Women can kill us if they want to!" on it? Or should you have a choice to do so?  Income or religious belief, it should be YOUR choice, I say.  The market will determine how well your business does, either way.  Because whichever choice you make, you are going to lose customers if the public finds out about it.

And that is the reason why I decided to be an atheist instead. I was told growing up that "God loves everyone" and then I opened the bible and it was: except for this long list of people...  Why believe in someone who keeps contradicting himself? Or at least the interpretation of the bible is contradicting. 

 

If she doesn't want to make money off of it I guess she can say no. 

 

But no, you can't always refuse to do something because your religion is against it. 

 

 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

8 minutes ago, Unidentified said:

And that is the reason why I decided to be an atheist instead. I was told growing up that "God loves everyone" and then I opened the bible and it was: except for this long list of people...  Why believe in someone who keeps contradicting himself? Or at least the interpretation of the bible is contradicting. 

 

If she doesn't want to make money off of it I guess she can say no. 

 

But no, you can't always refuse to do something because your religion is against it.

 

 

Unless you’re Jewish, muslim, or just about any other religion besides christian, I would agree with you.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

25 minutes ago, Unidentified said:

And that is the reason why I decided to be an atheist instead. I was told growing up that "God loves everyone" and then I opened the bible and it was: except for this long list of people...  Why believe in someone who keeps contradicting himself? Or at least the interpretation of the bible is contradicting. 

 

 

 

Just my take on it, having witnessed various religions the world over, but I think ALL of them are simply there to control and brainwash people.  They all have a similar theme; do what WE say, or you will burn in hell/suffer for all eternity. The basic morals behind most are good, I think, minus the ones that advocate killing anyone who does not believe as your particular religion does.  But to me, good morals can be had/exhibited without any religious influence.

[beloved_dingo 1,932]

25 minutes ago, ALFKAD said:

It's great that you can quote scripture that you believe pertinent.  However, those verses have been changed a lot in the past 30 years to fit what a particular person or persons wanted them to say.

How lucky we are to have you here as an expert to let us know which Bible verses should be ignored and which ones we should gladly cling to for justification of bigotry! 

 

Also I don't know where you get this "changed a lot in the last 30 years" from, NIV translation has existed since the 70's and is a lot less garbage than the King James version that so many churches still hold on to despite its woeful inaccuracies. 

 

I'm glad to see you acknowledge that the Bible isn't infallible though.

[Unidentified 2,930]

11 minutes ago, ALFKAD said:

Unless you’re Jewish, muslim, or just about any other religion besides christian, I would agree with you.

Can you please give me an example where a Jew, Muslim or other religion has avoided doing something a Christian had to do?

 

It shouldn't matter. Religious freedom just means you can practice whatever religion you want. It doesn't give you the freedom to force others to live the same way. 

 

Last year in Sweden we had an OB/GYN who applied for a job and said: "Hey, I am anti-abortion due to my religious beliefs so I am not going to do abortions, give the day after pill or anything related to birth control". The hospital said, "It's in the job description so we can't offer you this job". She sued and she lost. Her court costs were paid for by an anti-abortion alliance here in the US. 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

13 minutes ago, beloved_dingo said:

How lucky we are to have you here as an expert to let us know which Bible verses should be ignored and which ones we should gladly cling to for justification of bigotry! 

 

Also I don't know where you get this "changed a lot in the last 30 years" from, NIV translation has existed since the 70's and is a lot less garbage than the King James version that so many churches still hold on to despite its woeful inaccuracies. 

 

I'm glad to see you acknowledge that the Bible isn't infallible though.

In spite of your snarky comment, yes, I used to be quite proficient in the scriptures.  Used to win competitions for memorization when I attended school.  Verses, chapters, rarely did I come in second place.

 

Just because you like the NIV doesn’t make the KJV garbage, but nice of you to trash what many christians use as the word of God.

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,315]

15 minutes ago, Unidentified said:

Can you please give me an example where a Jew, Muslim or other religion has avoided doing something a Christian had to do?

 

It shouldn't matter. Religious freedom just means you can practice whatever religion you want. It doesn't give you the freedom to force others to live the same way. 

 

Last year in Sweden we had an OB/GYN who applied for a job and said: "Hey, I am anti-abortion due to my religious beliefs so I am not going to do abortions, give the day after pill or anything related to birth control". The hospital said, "It's in the job description so we can't offer you this job". She sued and she lost. Her court costs were paid for by an anti-abortion alliance here in the US. 

If it was part of her job, the Hospital was correct in not hiring her. Generally speaking your rights end where mine start.  Forcing a church to marry Gays is very clearly wrong.

 

The wedding cake for the gay couple has a whole lot more gray area and I would hate to decide 

[beloved_dingo 1,932]

39 minutes ago, ALFKAD said:

In spite of your snarky comment, yes, I used to be quite proficient in the scriptures.  Used to win competitions for memorization when I attended school.  Verses, chapters, rarely did I come in second place.

 

Just because you like the NIV doesn’t make the KJV garbage, but nice of you to trash what many christians use as the word of God.

You aren't the only one who memorized scripture and won awards for it. But that is beside the point, because memorization does not equal understanding. I was highly active in the church, have read the bible completely through multiple times (in several translations, including KJV), and studied the bible in university before I rejected these beliefs. I also went to a Christian high school where we were required to learn the KJV, and had weekly tests of memorized verses. You assumed I would not have knowledge of scripture equal to yours without knowing a single thing about me. 

 

And I use the NIV when quoting scripture simply for its readability. KJV has inaccuracies - that is just a fact. The translators in 1611 (and the later revisions) did not have adequate knowledge of Koine Greek. Now, the NIV and any other translation will have inaccuracies too because translations of ancient and unused languages cannot be perfect, but we certainly have a better understanding today of the ancient manuscripts than in the 1600s & 1700s. And, when conversing about scripture, I think it's silly in the modern day to say "Judge not, that ye be not judged" instead of "Do not judge, or you too will be judged." Using KJV as the default makes it harder for modern readers to comprehend, as 99% of people aren't particularly familiar with the unique not-quite-Elizabethan English that the KJV is written in. 

Edited February 22, 2019 by beloved_dingo

[Steeleballz 7,550]

42 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

If it was part of her job, the Hospital was correct in not hiring her. Generally speaking your rights end where mine start.  Forcing a church to marry Gays is very clearly wrong.

 

The wedding cake for the gay couple has a whole lot more gray area and I would hate to decide 

 

  I'm still waiting for someone to show me where in the bible suggests that you can't bake a cake for a same sex marriage. We seem to always end up with a lot of interpolation based on personal beliefs when it comes to scripture.