Why enter illegally?

[N-o-l-a 7,167]

Well, besides the usual, I can think of one case that stood out to me in particular.  This young lady was the girlfriend of a friend of my husband.  She and her mother had entered on a tourist visa from South Africa when she was underage.  They overstayed as the situation in South Africa became unstable for the Boers, might have been her mother's intention all along.  I completely sympathize with her and any person who is fleeing their country for fear of violence, especially when it comes to their children.

 

The other overstayers that I've known have been Europeans and Russians, and that was either for economic or just cultural reasons.  

[Russ&Caro 1,548]

As someone mentioned earlier, the economics of illegal immigration is a two way road. People might be pushed here from their own poor economic situation, but there are also employers here that are pulling people here by wanting lower wage workers, for no other reason than to make a little more in profits. There are assisted living residences for the elderly in my state that offer one wage to caregivers who are USC's and LPR's, and another wage to undocumented workers doing the exact same work.

[Dee elle 1,368]

This is one of the most well informed,  reasonable and well reasoned threads on the forum. Thx everyone for your very considered,  thoughtful, non abusive responses.. have come in late and have really enjoyed reading the posts ! 

[TBoneTX 43,508]

6 hours ago, Dee elle said:

This is one of the most well informed,  reasonable and well reasoned threads on the forum. Thx everyone for your very considered,  thoughtful, non abusive responses.

Hey -- I was going to say this!

[Dee elle 1,368]

11 minutes ago, TBoneTX said:

Hey -- I was going to say this!

I will withdraw and allow you to post.. if I get my discount back 😎

[TBoneTX 43,508]

As penance for your insouciance, you shall pay full price, DE ma'am.

Now back to thread's topic!

[Dee elle 1,368]

44 minutes ago, TBoneTX said:

As penance for your insouciance, you shall pay full price, DE ma'am.

Now back to thread's topic!

😢

[TBoneTX 43,508]

Caucused in depth with Mrs. T-B. last night.

She's been interacting with many Latin Americans who are seeking asylum, etc.

Some of the below is new.

 

She reconfirms that the Central Americans (Hondureños, Salvadoreños, Guatemaltecos) are showing up at our southern border (often with children) because they're escaping gangs et al. in their countries.  These are, in her words, "poor people" ("poor" meant both literally & figuratively) who can't understand instructions in English or Spanish about how/where/when to show up in court, can't fill out change-of-address paperwork, don't understand the need for paperwork at all, don't comprehend the utterly crucial need for a lawyer, etc.  I asked her whether these people had anything to offer the U.S. if they're admitted, and she was uncharacteristically silent.  I asked her why they're not going to Costa Rica, Belize, Panama, or elsewhere, and she had no idea.  I asked her how they'd support themselves here if they're granted entry; she paused and eventually murmured "they're poor people."

 

I presume that these people are looking merely to "escape," with no plan beyond that.

 

The Venezolanos who are showing up here are escaping Maduro's socialistic governmental oppression.  They're typically educated and were middle-class or better.  Many had or have tourist visas.  They're typically able to articulate their cases for asylum.  Most have plans to use their university degrees or to start businesses.

 

Conversely, the Venezolanos who are overrunning Colombia, Peru, & Ecuador are typically from the lower classes.  At least Peru & Ecu are now requiring passports from these refugees, and anyone without one will be refused entry.  Mrs. T-B. said that the incoming Venezolanos are taking jobs from the native Ecus, and a couple of Ecus have been murdered so far, so Ecu's president has put his foot down:  no Venezolanos without a passport.  This is going to create problems on a yet-unknown scale at a Colombia-Ecu border crossing.

[Mina90 134]

On 8/21/2018 at 12:35 PM, TBoneTX said:

Caucused in depth with Mrs. T-B. last night.

She's been interacting with many Latin Americans who are seeking asylum, etc.

Some of the below is new.

 

She reconfirms that the Central Americans (Hondureños, Salvadoreños, Guatemaltecos) are showing up at our southern border (often with children) because they're escaping gangs et al. in their countries.  These are, in her words, "poor people" ("poor" meant both literally & figuratively) who can't understand instructions in English or Spanish about how/where/when to show up in court, can't fill out change-of-address paperwork, don't understand the need for paperwork at all, don't comprehend the utterly crucial need for a lawyer, etc.  I asked her whether these people had anything to offer the U.S. if they're admitted, and she was uncharacteristically silent.  I asked her why they're not going to Costa Rica, Belize, Panama, or elsewhere, and she had no idea.  I asked her how they'd support themselves here if they're granted entry; she paused and eventually murmured "they're poor people."

 

I presume that these people are looking merely to "escape," with no plan beyond that.

 

The Venezolanos who are showing up here are escaping Maduro's socialistic governmental oppression.  They're typically educated and were middle-class or better.  Many had or have tourist visas.  They're typically able to articulate their cases for asylum.  Most have plans to use their university degrees or to start businesses.

 

Conversely, the Venezolanos who are overrunning Colombia, Peru, & Ecuador are typically from the lower classes.  At least Peru & Ecu are now requiring passports from these refugees, and anyone without one will be refused entry.  Mrs. T-B. said that the incoming Venezolanos are taking jobs from the native Ecus, and a couple of Ecus have been murdered so far, so Ecu's president has put his foot down:  no Venezolanos without a passport.  This is going to create problems on a yet-unknown scale at a Colombia-Ecu border crossing.

Mrs. T-B has provided some very interesting insight.  I never thought of it like that, but yes, now it begs the question of why not escape to a country, such as the ones you listed, where Spanish is spoken and has a better quality of life? Very good point.

 

Oh wow. Is it bad that I'm kind of glad the Ecuadorian president put his foot down and is requiring passports? 

 

[Russ&Caro 1,548]

From my knowledge of Latin America, there's a pecking order that throws up roadblocks for people of one country to migrate to, work in or even visit another country. Costa Rica and Mexico are prized destinations for Spanish speaking people of other countries, and as a result they have some serious restrictions on migration. Coyotes who ferry people out of El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala are needed to get into Mexico as much as they're needed to get into the USA. Colombians are allowed to travel in and out of Panama (used to be part of Colombia 100 yrs ago) easily without a visa but I'm not sure people from Venezuela or Ecuador have it as easy to enter Panama. Suffice it to say, very little is easy when moving from one country to the next.

[YecaCruz 375]

While it would be easier for someone from one of the CA-4 agreement countries (Nicaragua, Guatemala, Honduras, El Sally) can easily get there and "disappear" with their national ID with an automatic tourist visa of 90 days, none of those countries are any better off than the other in terms of a "better life". They still won't escape from poverty, gang violence, high unemployment, crappy pay et al.

 

Unfortunately the US for the most part has been relatively easy to come and stay illegally for a long time so there's that big red target on the US to make it so tempting to come here. Russ&Caro had a great point about people/employers here that are willing to give you a job with pay under the table if you don't have "papers" or authorization to work. Takes two to tango; or if you know Spanish it takes two to "tenemos". So we can't blame all this mess on "those darn illegals".

 

Story time: Husband has a Nica acquaintance who is in the states with his valid tourist visa and is working. I over heard their conversation last night and sort-of-indirectly butted in lol.  His acquaintance/kind-of friend went from having a business in Nicaragua that made about 4000 profit a month to barely 700 (don't know if that's USD or córdobas which is about c31/$1) because of all the protests and chaos in country. Which sucks. This guy was first talking about trying to see if Canada would grant asylum to him/his wife and daughter by going to Canada or an embassy but then got discouraged by the complicated-ness of doing that with the possibility of getting sent back to Nicaragua. So then he mentioned work visa to which I told mike to tell him that only works if there's a company that will hire/sponsor him. Then he mentioned our church to come on a religious visa and he says "I'll be there Sundays and if they ask what I'm doing Monday-Friday, you can just say I'm visiting families". Um no, church won't lie for you, amigo . How can you be a pastor and preach about doing right etc while you knowingly break the law? Plus our church isn't big enough to hire anyone (we aren't even paid as pastors, I work at a bank Monday-Saturday).

 

Then he finally says something like "I mean look, I have a good job, good pay (I think the guys that "hired" him are illegal Mexicans doing construction), if I have the cash I can get a trailer house and a car..." Husband tries to explain that it's not cheap to live here and right now with not paying taxes or insurances, of course he is feeling rich. Medical stuff, food stuff, clothes...everything here is so ruttin' expensive which is a big reason we want to move to Nicaragua one day. Mangos for .05, heck to the yes!

 

Yeah. I understand his desperation, or I try to understand, and the need to provide for his wife and daughter cuz I'm pretty sure a whole lot of gringos would do stuff like this in a situation like that. It's such a mess!

 

On an unrelated note I apologize for any run-on sentences.

[TBoneTX 43,508]

9 hours ago, Russ&Caro said:

there's a pecking order that throws up roadblocks for people of one country to migrate to, work in or even visit another country. Costa Rica and Mexico are prized destinations for Spanish speaking people of other countries

This is an excellent observation that makes perfect sense.  South-of-the-border isn't monolithic.

Costa Rica, Panama, and still to some extent Mexico are retirement destinations for gringos, in fact.

I'll query Mrs. T-B., but she might not know much to add, because Ecu is somewhat removed from these places.

10 hours ago, Russ&Caro said:

Coyotes who ferry people out of El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala are needed to get into Mexico as much as they're needed to get into the USA.

From the little that I've heard, this also rings true.

[TBoneTX 43,508]

7 hours ago, YecaCruz said:

the US for the most part has been relatively easy to come and stay illegally for a long time so there's that big red target on the US to make it so tempting to come here. Russ&Caro had a great point about people/employers here that are willing to give you a job with pay under the table if you don't have "papers" or authorization to work. Takes two to tango; or if you know Spanish it takes two to "tenemos". So we can't blame all this mess on "those darn illegals".

Another spot-on observation (double observation, actually).

And even if a (the current) U.S. administration is trying to enforce existing laws to curb either part (ease of entry and ready pay), the bleeding hearts (championed by the media) and some Federal judge or another will stop it in its tracks.

7 hours ago, YecaCruz said:

illegal Mexicans doing construction

Was there ever a more repetitively redundant phrase than this?  

7 hours ago, YecaCruz said:

Medical stuff, food stuff, clothes...everything here is so ruttin' expensivel: 

Mama-Mrs.-T-B. has been here several times; Papa-Mrs.-T-B. just visited for his first time.  When I had Mrs. T-B. ask him what stood out/surprised him the most about the U.S., he said, "In Ecu, food is cheap and everything else is expensive.  In the U.S., it's the converse."  Of course, his view is tainted by my "cheap gringo" habit of searching for and finding the best bargains on anything, such as at garage/estate sales, resale stores, and similar -- and I sure took them to plenty of each.  

7 hours ago, YecaCruz said:

I apologize for any run-on sentences.

No apology necessary I saw no run-on sentences and what's wrong with run-on sentences anyway whoop whoop whoop whoop whoop

[TBoneTX 43,508]

10 hours ago, Mina90 said:

I'm kind of glad the Ecuadorian president put his foot down and is requiring passports

Well, he can, without some Federal judge in California or Hawaii decreeing that he can't.

 

The guy's a socialist* like his predecessor, but unlike the previous clown, this one isn't grandstanding, putting on airs, and spending on himself like a drunken sailor, so the Ecus are apparently rather satisfied with him (for now).

 

*name is Lenin Moreno, so big surprise

[TBoneTX 43,508]

Mrs. T-B. tells me that there's an entire large neighborhood in New York City (Ciudad de Nueva York) that's wholly Ecu -- when there, one cannot tell which country one is in.

 

I asked her if these people are legal, and she rolled her eyes and said, "Ask them."  That probably means that 99.44% of them are illegal.

 

It boggles the mind to picture (and envision) mass deportations of entire neighborhoods.