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The US police officer 'who shot an Australian woman, 40, dead' in her pyjamas while his body camera was switched off

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Posted
1 hour ago, 8bit_Theatre said:

Man talk about off topic....

 

On topic for a moment...I find it suspicious that nothing has been released by the police department yet. 

 

 

 

 

Maybe they want to get the facts first . The police officer may well be guilty as sin. If he is I hope they charge him with murder, if not then the facts will come out. 

 

As we all know far too often when the facts come out they are nothing like the narrative pushed by a dishonest press with an agenda.

 

A certain gentle giant , that was merely walking down the street bothering no one , and had his hands up trying to surrender comes to mind.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

Maybe they want to get the facts first . The police officer may well be guilty as sin. If he is I hope they charge him with murder, if not then the facts will come out. 

 

As we all know far too often when the facts come out they are nothing like the narrative pushed by a dishonest press with an agenda.

 

A certain gentle giant , that was merely walking down the street bothering no one , and had his hands up trying to surrender comes to mind.

 

 

3, 2, 1.. amnesia.

 

Left.. wait for facts, that's a good one. :rofl:

Edited by IAMX
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Posted
3 hours ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

Maybe they want to get the facts first . The police officer may well be guilty as sin. If he is I hope they charge him with murder, if not then the facts will come out. 

 

As we all know far too often when the facts come out they are nothing like the narrative pushed by a dishonest press with an agenda.

 

A certain gentle giant , that was merely walking down the street bothering no one , and had his hands up trying to surrender comes to mind.

 

 

Imagine how much better this world would be if they would just listen to some common sense advice that you just laid out?

 

 

 

 

Posted
Quote

“AMERICAN NIGHTMARE,” blared a headline on the front page of the Daily Telegraph, a Sydney newspaper.

That hometown headline, the Associated Press noted, “summarized Australia's reaction in blunt terms.”

In Justine Damond's native country, news of the meditation teacher's baffling death has dominated the airwaves, newspapers and websites for days, feeding into Australians' long-held fears about America's notorious culture of gun violence.

“The country is infested with possibly more guns than people,” said Philip Alpers, a gun policy analyst with the University of Sydney who has studied the stark differences in gun laws between the nations. “We see America as a very risky place in terms of gun violence — and so does the rest of the world.”

The Australian government passed strict gun control legislation in 1996, after a gunman opened fire in a Tasmania cafe, then hunted down more people in his car, killing a total of 35 and wounding 19 others. The National Firearms Agreement banned the possession, manufacture and sale of all semiautomatic firearms and pump-action shotguns other than in “exceptional circumstances,” notably military and police use.

It also mandated that applicants wait 28 days from the time they obtain a permit to the time they buy a weapon. Applicants are also required to undergo firearms training, and weapons and ammunition must be stored separately, according to the law.

Following Damond's death, family, friends and others in Australia spoke about the woman who was killed. Some on social media called the incident “senseless” and said it was “definitely not adding up.”

“I THINK COPS NEED TRAINING,” one person wrote on Twitter from Australia.

Damond was the 541st person shot and killed by police in 2017, according to a Washington Post database of deadly encounters with law enforcement officers in the U.S.

“The tragic shooting death of Justine Damond will bring home for many Australians a disturbing phenomenon they had only observed from afar and may have even thought was on the decline: the extraordinary rate of people killed during encounters with police in the United States,” wrote Josephine Tovey, a Sydney Morning Herald reporter based in New York.

Tovey noted:

No one factor explains the high rate of killings in the US. The high ownership of guns and prevalence of gun crime in America means American cops operate in completely different and more violent circumstances to their Australian counterparts. Around half those shot by police in 2016 were themselves in possession of a gun. But there are other factors — one researcher also cited less training, racial bias and more lax standards as among reasons for why US police officers killed more civilians than those in Europe.

The Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension said in a statement that a 911 call came in about 11:30 p.m. Saturday and that two Minneapolis police officers responded to the scene in the city's Fulton neighborhood. “At one point an officer fired their weapon, fatally striking a woman,” according to the statement.

The bureau did not provide details on what precipitated the shooting. Neither the responding officers' body cameras nor the patrol car's dash cam captured the incident, which became another sticking point.

Paul McGeough, chief foreign correspondent for the Sydney Morning Herald, wrote that Americans and Australians “know nothing of the circumstances of Damond's death because the police cameras had not been turned on.”

He added:

Police bodycam and dashboard cam video is the new porn of the digital age. It's often great footage to sex up a TV news bulletin, but as police departments around the country go live, a slew of civil rights challenges has emerged.

On Monday, the American Civil Liberties Union weighed in on the Damond killing, demanding that Minneapolis police policies be changed to make failing to activate their cameras a punishable offence.

Repeated studies support the efficacy of police body cameras — for police and for the people with whom they come into contact.

‘AMERICAN NIGHTMARE’: Australians react to fatal police shooting in ‘very risky’ United States

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, smilesammich said:

Unfortunately for an Australian the US is actually a "very risky" place. Are there more dangerous places in the world? Of course, far more. In terms of "1st world" countries though, the USA isn't in a great spot.

 

The firearm related death rate in the USA is over 10 times higher than Australia. The intentional homicide rate is over 50 times higher in the USA. Even traffic-related deaths are double in the USA compared to Australia.

Edited by bcking
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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, bcking said:

Unfortunately for an Australian the US is actually a "very risky" place. Are there more dangerous places in the world? Of course, far more. In terms of "1st world" countries though, the USA isn't in a great spot.

 

The firearm related death rate in the USA is over 10 times higher than Australia. The intentional homicide rate is over 50 times higher in the USA. Even traffic-related deaths are double in the USA compared to Australia.

Statistics in the US are skewed though due to less than a dozen places contributing to alot of it. Even though the US is a country, it's hard for me to "compare" it to most other countries because of the differences between each state. I like to look at states vs countries rather than the US as a whole. When you have places like NYC, Chicago, LA it's hard to judge a whole country. Where we live was just recently named #23 safest city for families in the country.  Another place right next to us was #2. I doubt it's safer in Australia than it is here, or in alot of places in the US for that matter, so I don't like to lump them all together.

Edited by OriZ
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Posted
11 hours ago, OriZ said:

Statistics in the US are skewed though due to less than a dozen places contributing to alot of it. Even though the US is a country, it's hard for me to "compare" it to most other countries because of the differences between each state. I like to look at states vs countries rather than the US as a whole. When you have places like NYC, Chicago, LA it's hard to judge a whole country. Where we live was just recently named #23 safest city for families in the country.  Another place right next to us was #2. I doubt it's safer in Australia than it is here, or in alot of places in the US for that matter, so I don't like to lump them all together.

If you want to break a place down to its parts you could do that anywhere as well though, not just the USA.

 

So yes it is likely your small Vermont town is safer than Sydney, but there are plenty of rural areas in Australia where crime rates are even lower.

 

While obviously comparing countries has some limitations and so the data is perfect, I do think it is relevant. Australia has a HIGHER urban population (~83% in the USA, 90% in Australia), and yet their crime rate is significantly lower than ours. Of course there will be pockets contributing more or less, but I would say it is fair for an Australia to look at America and think that it is less safe, on the whole. My wife also looked at America (coming from the UK) and saw it as less safe and I would also agree with that from her perspective. Motor vehicle accidents are much higher, and deadly assaults are higher. Of course if she moved from London to Vermont it would be different...but then the better comparison would have been moving from the Lake Country to Vermont in that situation.

Posted

wow. 

 

Quote

A Minneapolis police officer whose partner shot an Australian woman was "startled by a loud sound" just before the incident, investigators say.

Justine Damond, originally from Sydney, was gunned down after calling police to report a possible crime.

On a police radio recording, an officer mentions fireworks being let off near where the shooting happened.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-40651470

Posted
38 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

Yeah I saw that article as well from the Dailymail and I thought WOW this guy is screwed for a number of different reasons. He is screwed because he was using bad trigger control by having his finger actually on the trigger and not straight like your supposed to do, he fired across his partner like he is in the Wild West or something like that, and now he is being uncooperative with investigators. He is royally screwed and will be charged, which he rightfully should be. I don't care what color/race you if your cop you have to be a fair and decent one no matter what. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, bcking said:

If you want to break a place down to its parts you could do that anywhere as well though, not just the USA.

 

So yes it is likely your small Vermont town is safer than Sydney, but there are plenty of rural areas in Australia where crime rates are even lower.

 

While obviously comparing countries has some limitations and so the data is perfect, I do think it is relevant. Australia has a HIGHER urban population (~83% in the USA, 90% in Australia), and yet their crime rate is significantly lower than ours. Of course there will be pockets contributing more or less, but I would say it is fair for an Australia to look at America and think that it is less safe, on the whole. My wife also looked at America (coming from the UK) and saw it as less safe and I would also agree with that from her perspective. Motor vehicle accidents are much higher, and deadly assaults are higher. Of course if she moved from London to Vermont it would be different...but then the better comparison would have been moving from the Lake Country to Vermont in that situation.

While I'm sure crime rate varies from place to place in Australia, there is a pretty unique set of circumstances and reasons(previously discussed so we won't go back into that) in the US that does not exist in most countries and leads to a bigger skew than most countries have. I am also sure there are places in Australia that are safer than where we live, heck there are even 22 places in the US that are. But that wasn't my point; My point was as long as the Australian or British that you were talking about stays away from less than 2 handful of places in America, they'll be just as safe as back home. So no I don't think it will be fair for them to look at America is a whole in that case, especially if they are going nowhere near those places.

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Posted
17 minutes ago, cyberfx1024 said:

Yeah I saw that article as well from the Dailymail and I thought WOW this guy is screwed for a number of different reasons. He is screwed because he was using bad trigger control by having his finger actually on the trigger and not straight like your supposed to do, he fired across his partner like he is in the Wild West or something like that, and now he is being uncooperative with investigators. He is royally screwed and will be charged, which he rightfully should be. I don't care what color/race you if your cop you have to be a fair and decent one no matter what. 

race/color has nothing to do with it, training has everything to do with it. imo

Posted
47 minutes ago, OriZ said:

While I'm sure crime rate varies from place to place in Australia, there is a pretty unique set of circumstances and reasons(previously discussed so we won't go back into that) in the US that does not exist in most countries and leads to a bigger skew than most countries have. I am also sure there are places in Australia that are safer than where we live, heck there are even 22 places in the US that are. But that wasn't my point; My point was as long as the Australian or British that you were talking about stays away from less than 2 handful of places in America, they'll be just as safe as back home. So no I don't think it will be fair for them to look at America is a whole in that case, especially if they are going nowhere near those places.

Still not buying it.

http://www.bocsar.nsw.gov.au/Documents/RCS-Annual/Report-Recorded-Crime-Statistics-2016-rcs2016.pdf

Page 7 lists the trend in "violent crime" for the NSW (The state that contains Sydney, I couldn't find Sydney specific data so that was as close as I could get). The number is roughly 85 per 100,000. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate

Only 1 city comes below that number. The cities on the list total a population of about 60-65 million. 

 

That is also ignoring the fact that the violent crime data for NSW includes "indecent exposure" (Violent?)

 

Yes a visitor from Australia can stay away from the 82 cities on that list...but that is far from a "handful" of places, and it includes the vast majority of population centers in our country.

 

I guess if an Australian wants to come to see the fall foliage in Vermont they can feel quite safe. If they come for any regular tourist attraction outside our National Parks, they have good reason to see us as a "less safe" place.

 

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