Donald Trump offers to help Charlie Gard after UK court rules life support machine to be turned off

[bcking 3,157]

9 minutes ago, jg121783 said:

You guys are ignoring the elephant in the room here. The failed socialist UK health care system. If socialist health care us so great why is nothing being done to try to save this kid?

There is nothing that can be done for the child. If the parents "accept help" from the US he will be moved here, gained an "experimental treatment" and then die here. He will have lived longer, but likely would have suffered far more and the outcome would be the same in the end.

 

There are cases like this all time all over the world. There are certain conditions we just can't manage. Mitochondrial disease in particular, when this severe, is horrible. It is also not pain free. These children suffer and the outcome is almost always the same no matter how long you keep them alive before you let them go. The only difference is more suffering.

 

This case has very little to do with limitations of resources. Great Ormand Street is one of the best NICUs in the world, and they could have obtained the same nucleoside treatment that the doctor in the US is offering. The doctors determined it was not in the best interest of the child because he already has extensive brain damage (which is irreversible) and the medication at best would halt but most likely only slow further damage. Even in the state he is in he cannot move, he cannot breath, he is blind/deaf. Those things wouldn't get better, the deterioration would only slow.  

 

It is about what is in the best interest of the child.

Edited July 3, 2017 by bcking

[smilesammich 10,727]

Just now, jg121783 said:

Well he did hang the veterans out to dry (A few of them being family and friends of mine) in more ways than one. Trump is not going to be able to reverse the problem of veteran homelessness that reached a quite frankly disgusting level in the Obama years over night. It's funny how all of Obama's failures such as Obamacare are now blamed on Trump because he didn't fix them all overnight.

of course trump isn't going to be able to fix veteran homelessness. he's inept. no argument there.

[jg121783 3,921]

1 minute ago, smilesammich said:

who knew "rare genetic condition and .. brain damage" was caused by the "failed socialist uk health care system"

 

why is nothing being done to save this kid? did you read anything about the condition of the kid you're so worried about?

Yes I did. I also read about how his family raised the money to bring him to the US to get the treatment he needs and the UK government wont allow it.

[Dashinka 25,891]

7 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

is 'thanks obama' still your go to? sad. 

Yes, all the homeless just appeared in January.  I was wondering what happened to all the homeless and anti war advocates for the past eight years.

 

[Dashinka 25,891]

1 minute ago, smilesammich said:

of course trump isn't going to be able to fix veteran homelessness. he's inept. no argument there.

So does that mean Obama was inept as well?  Or does it mean the president doesn't really have the power to solve this problem.

[Boiler 47,514]

11 minutes ago, jg121783 said:

You guys are ignoring the elephant in the room here. The failed socialist UK health care system. If socialist health care us so great why is nothing being done to try to save this kid?

Not socialist, but aside from that fact everything that could be done had been done, without a multi million bill at the end of it.

[bcking 3,157]

2 minutes ago, jg121783 said:

Yes I did. I also read about how his family raised the money to bring him to the US to get the treatment he needs and the UK government wont allow it.

He doesn't "need" the medication, and it is not a treatment for him.

 

It is an experimental drug that has never been studied or used in a patient like him, and even if it were to work would not reverse the damage his disease has already caused. That damage has lead to his paralysis, inability to breath on his own, blindness/deafness and other severe neurologic impairments including a seizure disorder. Those things wouldn't be reversed. Further damage may be prevented (in the most ideal circumstance imagineable) but no brain damage that has already occured would reverse.

 

The very reason this is an issue is because the parents disagree with the medical team about whether he "needs" the treatment. 

Edited July 3, 2017 by bcking

[smilesammich 10,727]

Just now, Bill & Katya said:

Yes, all the homeless just appeared in January.  I was wondering what happened to all the homeless and anti war advocates for the past eight years.

 

maybe you two should start a thread on obama and veterans. let me know when trump does anything for homeless veterans. oh that's right, jg just said there's nothing he can do. but obama, he could have done everything. you guys are just blind to your own bias. it's crazy.

[smilesammich 10,727]

Just now, Bill & Katya said:

So does that mean Obama was inept as well?  Or does it mean the president doesn't really have the power to solve this problem.

oh my. yes. off with his head, all obamas fault. theres nothing trump can do but tweet support of a child on life support in the uk. gross.

4 minutes ago, jg121783 said:

Yes I did. I also read about how his family raised the money to bring him to the US to get the treatment he needs and the UK government wont allow it.

i'd like to read that link. please post.

[Dashinka 25,891]

3 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

maybe you two should start a thread on obama and veterans. let me know when trump does anything for homeless veterans. oh that's right, jg just said there's nothing he can do. but obama, he could have done everything. you guys are just blind to your own bias. it's crazy.

Whatever.  Trump offers some help, symbolic or otherwise, but that is not enough.  If a Republican can't solve the problems in total it is a failure, but hey occasionally a Democrat occupies the WH.  I wonder who is biased?

Edited July 3, 2017 by Bill & Katya

[smilesammich 10,727]

Just now, Bill & Katya said:

Whatever.  It is a joke that Trump offers some help, symbolic or otherwise, but that is not enough.  If a Republican can't solve the problems in total it is a failure, but hey occasionally a Democrat occupies the WH.  I wonder who is biased?

obviously you think trump was being genuine. my bad, i'm not in the position to be so naive concerning trump's motives.

[Dashinka 25,891]

1 minute ago, smilesammich said:

obviously you think trump was being genuine. my bad, i'm not in the position to be so naive concerning trump's motives.

I have no idea if he was being genuine or not and neither do you.

[bcking 3,157]

I appreciate that Trump has offered his support/help. However honestly in this situation I don't think it helps anyone. The situation is already complex when you have the medical team on one side and the parents on another. You don't need the President of a country weighing in as well. The issue isn't with the means to get the boy to the US. It is whether that is in his best interest. Trump, Pope or anyone else can't really weigh in on that. That is between the parents and the medical team and unfortunately the courts have to act as a mediator. 

[smilesammich 10,727]

4 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

I have no idea if he was being genuine or not and neither do you.

i do actually. trump did not pick this one dying kid out of a hat to care about. sorry.

[yuna628 9,873]

15 minutes ago, jg121783 said:

You guys are ignoring the elephant in the room here. The failed socialist UK health care system. If socialist health care us so great why is nothing being done to try to save this kid?

Alright, I've had my eye on this case before it ever pinged on Donnie's radar, so before yelling about socialist healthcare in the UK, let's actually review what's going on with this case.

 

The child was born with a condition so rare there are only 16 documented cases. There is no cure, and even if there was a treatment available this would not help the child to survive. It is worth noting that the child is currently in the most critical stage of the condition - he is virtually a vegetable and we aren't even sure if they are aware of pain. I do not know if there was a test that would have picked up on this condition before the birth of the child, or if there were any pre-screening measures, or if the family was aware of the very grave circumstances that would happen upon his birth. Considering what happened with our own nephew in the UK fills me with some doubts about how far some NHS services go in testing and informing parents or their care once they are born in a critical stage.... but I digress.

 

The logical way I feel about this is that these parents have the money and are the parents of this child, and they should have the right to seek treatment for him wherever they deem reasonable. It should be their right to as parents. So the way the government and the courts ruled makes me gravely upset, but is not surprising again considering with what happened with us..

 

BUT there is a history here that the media is not telling concerned individuals about this case: and that is the hospital actually did start work on the ethical reviews process that a lot of hospitals go through in determining if the treatment they want to try in the US could be brought to the UK and attempted. They stopped that process once his condition became too grave. Ethically the doctors there felt that the treatment had so high a likelihood of failure and would result in further brain damage and loss of life - that them administering such treatments would be killing the child in an experimental and unnatural way. To be fair: the treatment the parents would like to try has helped some children with similar conditions. Similar is not the same. It has not been tested in animals or humans in that regard, and even in those cases of similar where it did help quality of life - it did not affect the ultimate outcome of death. These children will die and that death will be just as horrible. Despite this, these parents would like to try it - afterall they say ''what have we to lose, but our son who is to be lost anyway.. at least we tried''. And yes, I'd feel the same. At least we tried. But there is such a thing as false hope and those who prey on the vulnerable and could turn their child into an experiment. This poses serious ethical questions. No doctor has presented evidence to them that there will be any success or change in his fate and there is evidence to suggest it could cause additional mutations and accelerated death.

 

The second part about this story that infuriates me is the refusal by the hospital to allow the child a dignified death with his parents in his home.

 

And lastly: Donald Trump can do nothing for these parents. They are not refugees, and there are millions of more kids just like them who would like to be given that same thought or chance. I am uncomfortable that his approaching death is being used like this. They parents can try, and they should have a right to, but let us be clear - there is no saving the boy.