The Minimum Wage Eats Restaurants

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

3 hours ago, IAMX said:

 

Translation: can't make a coherent argument. 

Pretty much. We can't all be tv stars so let's do socialism.  They have don't feed the bears signs for a reason 

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

1 hour ago, smilesammich said:

i don't deny bootstrap theory is proven, it's just no longer applicable to the masses, no matter how tightly their boots are strapped or how much they hold themselves accountable.

Why. There is more opportunities in this country than ever. 

[IAMX 3,055]

6 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

Why. There is more opportunities in this country than ever. 

Nope. With how often lefties cite Hitler, the KKK, slavery, and march with female genitals on their heads screeching incessantly about equality for women, we must still be in the 18th to early 20th centuries. #AltReality

Edited May 17, 2017 by IAMX

[smilesammich 10,727]

28 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

Why. There is more opportunities in this country than ever. 

actually financial upward mobility is at a standstill (no matter your political affiliation).

 

 

 

 

 

[OriZ 3,165]

17 hours ago, Teddy B said:

That's cause you got that kind of ca$h!!

 

 

Hey Teddy posting a pic of Teddy hmm...I never made that connection

 

16 hours ago, IAMX said:

Yes, if we ignore that the majority of businesses are not incorporated. #AltReality

 

The concern that poster and I share is not for corporations.. they have the most viable means of handling egregious minimum wage increases. Everyone else, as in the vast majority of businesses, do not have those means.

That's exactly it, many small business owners don't even make $15 an hour themselves. Doesn't mean they're not doing well - but when you take into account the amount of hours they put in. Not everybody's in it to get rich, but sometimes you need an employee or two for extra help or temp, it's ridiculous to expect them to pay them more than they pay themselves.

 

12 hours ago, bcking said:

If a "small business under sole proprietorship" is "barely getting by" while not paying their employees a fair wage, they don't deserve to get by.

 

Just like individual employees may need to be fired from jobs if they aren't doing well, there is no reason to prop up a small business by allowing them to cut corners when it comes to supporting their employees. Sometimes small businesses have to fail.

Completely untrue. Every business struggles at first, if you're forcing them to pay more than they can afford, you're going to end up losing literally half the businesses.

 

12 hours ago, bcking said:

Nothing in the post you quoted suggested that CEO's should be paid the same as every other employee.

 

Yes a small business owner that has only a handful of employees is likely taking a lot of risk, and is likely working very hard and very long hours. Yes they should be paid more. But they also shouldn't be able to hire employees and pay them a salary that you cannot live on. If they can't afford to pay them fairly, they can't afford the employees. They either run whatever business they have themselves, or close up shop. 

 

It's easy to tell you have never ran a business and I say that with all due respect that I do have for you.

[TBoneTX 47,519]

Two insulting posts have been removed, along with a quoting post.

[Dashinka 25,878]

10 hours ago, smilesammich said:

i don't deny bootstrap theory is proven, it's just no longer applicable to the masses, no matter how tightly their boots are strapped or how much they hold themselves accountable.

I see a lot of people, the so called masses, move upward all the time.  They take risks and make decisions, and sometimes they fail, but usually they dust themselves off and start again, and before long they are on the same trajectory upward.  Again, it is a mindset, and it still exists today.

[Teddy B 17,252]

14 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

Because it is about personal responsibility, and not government intervention to make things "more equal". This country is full of opportunity for those that strive for it, just ask Mike Rowe.  There are plenty of jobs out there that pay very well if a person is willing to take the time to gain the necessary skills which often means starting from the bottom.  I worked many minimum wage jobs and busted my ### to improve.  I never expected the government to provide a handout, and I think I am a better person for it.  We can let the government implement wage controls to put a ceiling on specific positions, or put in profit caps to limit the earning power of small business people, but that will just perpetuate the myth of a free lunch.

This couldn't be further from the truth. The reasons why are the employees still have to show up for work every day and perform his job to the company standard just like yours or my job right now. The only difference is that the majority of the employees will split a larger chunk of the pie rather than a handful getting most of it. There is no free ride or gov't hand out here. In the long run this will get more people who are working these minimum wage jobs and collect gov't assistance to live, off of gov't assistance and free up that money for other things.

 

Let them eat cake!

[Teddy B 17,252]

6 hours ago, OriZ said:

 

Hey Teddy posting a pic of Teddy hmm...I never made that connection

 

That's exactly it, many small business owners don't even make $15 an hour themselves. Doesn't mean they're not doing well - but when you take into account the amount of hours they put in. Not everybody's in it to get rich, but sometimes you need an employee or two for extra help or temp, it's ridiculous to expect them to pay them more than they pay themselves.

 

Completely untrue. Every business struggles at first, if you're forcing them to pay more than they can afford, you're going to end up losing literally half the businesses.

 

It's easy to tell you have never ran a business and I say that with all due respect that I do have for you.

Oh oh, that pic gave away my true identity. 

 

Sorry to say that if a business owner is putting in a lot of hours and is only earning $15 per hour and cannot afford to pay an employee a living wage, then that company probably shouldn't be in business to begin with.

[IAMX 3,055]

6 hours ago, OriZ said:

That's exactly it, many small business owners don't even make $15 an hour themselves. Doesn't mean they're not doing well - but when you take into account the amount of hours they put in. Not everybody's in it to get rich, but sometimes you need an employee or two for extra help or temp, it's ridiculous to expect them to pay them more than they pay themselves.

If they want to pay themselves more for as a reward for assuming the risk, they must be greedy and deserve to go out of business.

[bcking 3,157]

6 hours ago, OriZ said:

That's exactly it, many small business owners don't even make $15 an hour themselves. Doesn't mean they're not doing well - but when you take into account the amount of hours they put in. Not everybody's in it to get rich, but sometimes you need an employee or two for extra help or temp, it's ridiculous to expect them to pay them more than they pay themselves.

 

Completely untrue. Every business struggles at first, if you're forcing them to pay more than they can afford, you're going to end up losing literally half the businesses.

 

It's easy to tell you have never ran a business and I say that with all due respect that I do have for you.

No I have never ran a business and I likely won't ever. First off, private practices aren't what they used to be in medicine, and second my specialty doesn't lend itself to a private practice since it is hospital-based. There are some "independent" groups that are then employed by hospitals to run NICU's but I won't ever start one or run one myself. I prefer it that way.

 

That being said, I still have not heard any argument from you or anyone else why a business owner doesn't need to pay his/her employees are living wage. I don't care if business owners aren't making the 15 dollars themselves. They chose to start that small business, they are choosing to take on that risk and have the potential benefit of the equity/value of the business itself, and the future growth. I would never trust a business owner saying to his employees "Hey once we start doing better, you'll get more but for now you need to accept below minimum wage". As we've seen over the last decades with the growth of salaries, businesses don't significantly improve the lives of their employees as they grow and become successful. If they do, it is still far far less than what they do for the upper management and the investors/owners. The real winners are always at the top.

 

I'm sure every business struggles at first. But any good business should have started with a plan before opening up. They should have worked into that plan fair wages for whatever employee(s) they wanted to hire. They should have planned for that. If they didn't plan for it, they struggle and want to cut corners by hiring employees for less than they should be making to survive, they deserve to go under.

 

If you are continuing to want to argue that small businesses should be allowed to pay employees so little that the employees live in poverty and can't afford basics (shelter, food, healthcare), I'm really not sure what argument you are going to present that will convince me. We may just be fundamentally different about this. Everyone deserves a certain standard from their job. If the job can't provide it, the job needs to change or that business doesn't deserve to exist. The "American Dream" isn't for everyone, and shouldn't be built by taking advantage of others.

[IAMX 3,055]

3 minutes ago, bcking said:

No I have never ran a business and I likely won't ever. First off, private practices aren't what they used to be in medicine, and second my specialty doesn't lend itself to a private practice since it is hospital-based. There are some "independent" groups that are then employed by hospitals to run NICU's but I won't ever start one or run one myself. I prefer it that way.

 

That being said, I still have not heard any argument from you or anyone else why a business owner doesn't need to pay his/her employees are living wage. I don't care if business owners aren't making the 15 dollars themselves. They chose to start that small business, they are choosing to take on that risk and have the potential benefit of the equity/value of the business itself, and the future growth. I would never trust a business owner saying to his employees "Hey once we start doing better, you'll get more but for now you need to accept below minimum wage". As we've seen over the last decades with the growth of salaries, businesses don't significantly improve the lives of their employees as they grow and become successful. If they do, it is still far far less than what they do for the upper management and the investors/owners. The real winners are always at the top.

 

I'm sure every business struggles at first. But any good business should have started with a plan before opening up. They should have worked into that plan fair wages for whatever employee(s) they wanted to hire. They should have planned for that. If they didn't plan for it, they struggle and want to cut corners by hiring employees for less than they should be making to survive, they deserve to go under.

 

If you are continuing to want to argue that small businesses should be allowed to pay employees so little that the employees live in poverty and can't afford basics (shelter, food, healthcare), I'm really not sure what argument you are going to present that will convince me. We may just be fundamentally different about this. Everyone deserves a certain standard from their job. If the job can't provide it, the job needs to change or that business doesn't deserve to exist. The "American Dream" isn't for everyone, and shouldn't be built by taking advantage of others.

I've yet to see the argument for why a business owner must pay someone a living wage, only that they must. 

[Teddy B 17,252]

5 minutes ago, bcking said:

No I have never ran a business and I likely won't ever. First off, private practices aren't what they used to be in medicine, and second my specialty doesn't lend itself to a private practice since it is hospital-based. There are some "independent" groups that are then employed by hospitals to run NICU's but I won't ever start one or run one myself. I prefer it that way.

 

That being said, I still have not heard any argument from you or anyone else why a business owner doesn't need to pay his/her employees are living wage. I don't care if business owners aren't making the 15 dollars themselves. They chose to start that small business, they are choosing to take on that risk and have the potential benefit of the equity/value of the business itself, and the future growth. I would never trust a business owner saying to his employees "Hey once we start doing better, you'll get more but for now you need to accept below minimum wage". As we've seen over the last decades with the growth of salaries, businesses don't significantly improve the lives of their employees as they grow and become successful. If they do, it is still far far less than what they do for the upper management and the investors/owners. The real winners are always at the top.

 

I'm sure every business struggles at first. But any good business should have started with a plan before opening up. They should have worked into that plan fair wages for whatever employee(s) they wanted to hire. They should have planned for that. If they didn't plan for it, they struggle and want to cut corners by hiring employees for less than they should be making to survive, they deserve to go under.

 

If you are continuing to want to argue that small businesses should be allowed to pay employees so little that the employees live in poverty and can't afford basics (shelter, food, healthcare), I'm really not sure what argument you are going to present that will convince me. We may just be fundamentally different about this. Everyone deserves a certain standard from their job. If the job can't provide it, the job needs to change or that business doesn't deserve to exist. The "American Dream" isn't for everyone, and shouldn't be built by taking advantage of others.

+1, I'm out again. I'm thinking the +1 conspiracy theorist who shall remain nameless *cough*(Val) are on to something about the +1's being manipulated by the VJ ghosts of Christmases past. I demand a thorough investigation!

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

8 minutes ago, Teddy B said:

+1, I'm out again. I'm thinking the +1 conspiracy theorist who shall remain nameless *cough*(Val) are on to something about the +1's being manipulated by the VJ ghosts of Christmases past. I demand a thorough investigation!

I never run out. Every time  I hit the MDR they pop out like game tokens on Mario brothers. That's what you two losers get for sitting around the kitchen tables eating sandwiches , while I am out cruising the middle lane of the super highway 

[Teddy B 17,252]

4 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

I never run out. Every time  I hit the MDR they pop out like game tokens on Mario brothers. That's what you two losers get for sitting around the kitchen tables eating sandwiches , while I am out cruising the middle lane of the super highway 

Amazing, I suddenly had a +1 to give to you. Sitting around eating sammiches and getting fat on someone else's dime is what the evil left does. I'm willing to sacrifice a few +1's to be lazy.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Teddy B