Electronics banned from cabins on some Middle Eastern and African flights to U.S.

[Dashinka 26,196]

Do we need a federal judge to review this?

 

Airlines that fly from certain countries in the Middle East and Africa to the United States must soon require passengers to check in almost all electronic devices rather than carry them into the cabin, a U.S. official said.

The official said this will impact some airlines flying into the U.S. Another U.S. administration official says this covers devices larger than a cellphone.

 

An aviation official told CNN that there is a security concern regarding passengers boarding nonstop flights to the U.S. from specific countries. This relates to the "screening in [some] countries" for nonstop flights to the U.S.

 

They added that they believe a threat to the U.S. would be negated if a passenger transferred through a secondary city with additional and more trustworthy screening procedures. The directive is to ensure enhanced security measures at select airports for a limited duration.

In a written statement, the Department of Homeland Security said, "We have no comment on potential security precautions, but will provide any update as appropriate."

 

http://money.cnn.com/2017/03/20/news/companies/middle-east-airline-electronics-ban/

[charmander 692]

This is entirely a political decision. So now they trust these airports could do well screening the checked luggage but they don't trust their carry-on screening? Laptops are always scanned separately at carry-on x-ray machines. Now they will be in a luggage, and with all the other clutter around it they could do well screening the laptops?

 

This is mainly designed to stop the transfer-operations of the Gulf (Emirates/Etihad/Qatar) and Turkish Airlines. Most people flying with these airlines to US are actually not the citizens of UAE, Qatar, or Turkey. The rest of the airlines on that list doesn't really matter cause they are mostly regional airlines. Also, if DHS was sincere enough how come some of the West Asia airlines are not on the list but Etihad which is based on a CBP Pre-Clearance Airport is? Let's see how this unfolds.

[Dashinka 26,196]

Apparently the U.K. Is following suit.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39333424

[yuna628 9,915]

It's utter nonsense really. Current TSA regulations state that the laptop must have an unrestricted view in scanning, that's why it must be placed in it's own bin. This is the same for any electronic devices, including game consoles which the TSA also require being put into it's own bin for scanning. I should think the old line of thinking was, if a checked suitcase went by a scanner containing a laptop and a cellphone, one might be pretty suspicious. Historically it's a pretty poor idea to put such devices in the cargo hold, as that's the typical method of planting devices intending on destroying aircraft. The UK's new ban for instance implies that cellphone are perfectly fine, but e-readers, tablets, and perhaps even handheld gaming consoles for kids are not... which is frankly laughable. Why exactly does the UK believe it to be okay to have electronics on flights from Abu Dhabi,  but the US does not? With the UK joining in on the idea, it would seem some intelligence has cropped up, but nothing about this makes any sense whatsoever. It stops nothing, I would argue it seemingly makes it easier. Oh and the whole battery thing? Yes, this is just waiting for an accident to happen.

 

As for the actual reasoning of this ban? Well, this person isn't buying it's for 'security reasons'. http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/03/21/airline-electronics-ban/

http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/03/20/whats-the-logic-behind-the-in-flight-electronics-ban/

Edited March 21, 2017 by yuna628

[Dashinka 26,196]

1 hour ago, yuna628 said:

It's utter nonsense really. Current TSA regulations state that the laptop must have an unrestricted view in scanning, that's why it must be placed in it's own bin. This is the same for any electronic devices, including game consoles which the TSA also require being put into it's own bin for scanning. I should think the old line of thinking was, if a checked suitcase went by a scanner containing a laptop and a cellphone, one might be pretty suspicious. Historically it's a pretty poor idea to put such devices in the cargo hold, as that's the typical method of planting devices intending on destroying aircraft. The UK's new ban for instance implies that cellphone are perfectly fine, but e-readers, tablets, and perhaps even handheld gaming consoles for kids are not... which is frankly laughable. Why exactly does the UK believe it to be okay to have electronics on flights from Abu Dhabi,  but the US does not? With the UK joining in on the idea, it would seem some intelligence has cropped up, but nothing about this makes any sense whatsoever. It stops nothing, I would argue it seemingly makes it easier. Oh and the whole battery thing? Yes, this is just waiting for an accident to happen.

 

As for the actual reasoning of this ban? Well, this person isn't buying it's for 'security reasons'. http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/03/21/airline-electronics-ban/

http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/03/20/whats-the-logic-behind-the-in-flight-electronics-ban/

Maybe it is a trade action forcing people to book different routes to get on an unaffected carrier, but that doesn't necessarily explain the U.K.  We will see if US or European carriers start direct routes from these locations in the future.

[OriZ 3,165]

3 hours ago, yuna628 said:

It's utter nonsense really. Current TSA regulations state that the laptop must have an unrestricted view in scanning, that's why it must be placed in it's own bin. This is the same for any electronic devices, including game consoles which the TSA also require being put into it's own bin for scanning. I should think the old line of thinking was, if a checked suitcase went by a scanner containing a laptop and a cellphone, one might be pretty suspicious. Historically it's a pretty poor idea to put such devices in the cargo hold, as that's the typical method of planting devices intending on destroying aircraft. The UK's new ban for instance implies that cellphone are perfectly fine, but e-readers, tablets, and perhaps even handheld gaming consoles for kids are not... which is frankly laughable. Why exactly does the UK believe it to be okay to have electronics on flights from Abu Dhabi,  but the US does not? With the UK joining in on the idea, it would seem some intelligence has cropped up, but nothing about this makes any sense whatsoever. It stops nothing, I would argue it seemingly makes it easier. Oh and the whole battery thing? Yes, this is just waiting for an accident to happen.

 

As for the actual reasoning of this ban? Well, this person isn't buying it's for 'security reasons'. http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/03/21/airline-electronics-ban/

http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/03/20/whats-the-logic-behind-the-in-flight-electronics-ban/

If it is indeed because of this mysterious threat, I couldn't be more curious as to what exactly that threat is that would allow someone to use a laptop in order to commit whatever terror attack, that would not be able to be executed with a cell phone. The battery thing is insane...

 

Regarding the scanning of laptops or other electronic devices, even in the US today, and we just had this conversation the other day because my wife and I just recently enrolled, if you do the TSA precheck you don't have to take your laptop out. You also don't have to take your bottles with fluid out, or your jacket off, or your shoes off, or your jewelry, and a few other things. I was thinking about it for a while wondering why they would allow such loopholes even for people that have gotten "pre checked" and came to the conclusion they don't. There is no way they would have taken that chance. My only logical conclusion was that the technology available for precheck is vastly different from the one we are all used to, which is also why it was in test mode for quite a while with random people getting chosen to go through these lanes. They have now dramatically reduced the amount of people randomly chosen(by about 70%), and it's mostly the 4 million members of the program that get to enjoy it now. So my guess is they have thoroughly tested the technology and were probably pleased with the results, and that is likely what the fee actually pays for($17 per year X 4 million is quite a bit). Anyways my point is, if we're to the point where they have this technology, assuming it's not a loophole, where people don't even have to take their laptops out for scanning, it makes me even more curious about this new policy.

Edited March 22, 2017 by OriZ

[CaliCat 3,957]

10 minutes ago, OriZ said:

If it is indeed because of this mysterious threat, I couldn't be more curious as to what exactly that threat is that would allow someone to use a laptop in order to commit whatever terror attack, that would not be able to be executed with a cell phone. The battery thing is insane...

 

Regarding the scanning of laptops or other electronic devices, even in the US today, and we just had this conversation the other day because my wife and I just recently enrolled, if you do the TSA precheck you don't have to take your laptop out. You also don't have to take your bottles with fluid out, or your jacket off, or your shoes off, or your jewelry, and a few other things. I was thinking about it for a while wondering why they would allow such loopholes even for people that have gotten "pre checked" and came to the conclusion they don't. There is no way they would have taken that chance. My only logical conclusion was that the technology available for precheck is vastly different from the one we are all used to, which is also why it was in test mode for quite a while with random people getting chosen to go through these lanes. They have now dramatically reduced the amount of people randomly chosen(by about 70%), and it's mostly the 4 million members of the program that get to enjoy it now. So my guess is they have thoroughly tested the technology and were probably pleased with the results, and that is likely what the fee actually pays for($17 per year X 4 million is quite a bit). Anyways my point is, if we're to the point where they have this technology, assuming it's not a loophole, where people don't even have to take their laptops out for scanning, it makes me even more curious about this new policy.

 

I suspect it has to do with the avionics systems in some aircraft models. Some modern planes rely on fly-by-wire technology - some airplanes have joysticks instead of the more traditional yoke. Everything is controlled by computers that reside in the same electronics bay where other avionics are installed, and are run by the same server that runs the entertainment. If you could hack into one such server you'd have the plane at your command. Many modern airplanes also have USB ports where you can connect your own smartphone for entertainment. In the end, airplanes today have become piconets. My gut feeling is that Boeing, Airbus, or a professional hacker has found the backdoor to the server through the seat USB port.

[OriZ 3,165]

6 minutes ago, CaliCat said:

 

I suspect it has to do with the avionics systems in some aircraft models. Some modern planes rely on fly-by-wire technology - some airplanes have joysticks instead of the more traditional yoke. Everything is controlled by computers that reside in the same electronics bay where other avionics are installed, and are run by the same server that runs the entertainment. If you could hack into one such server you'd have the plane at your command. Many modern airplanes also have USB ports where you can connect your own smartphone for entertainment. In the end, airplanes today have become piconets. My gut feeling is that Boeing, Airbus, or a professional hacker has found the backdoor to the server through the seat USB port.

But the question is: how would a 3+ generation cellphone be any different?

[CaliCat 3,957]

16 minutes ago, OriZ said:

But the question is: how would a 3+ generation cellphone be any different?

 

Servers (computers) and smartphones run on different operating systems. That is why you can't run the same application on both. You can't install a computer app on your phone or vice versa. If you want to hack into a server running Unix or Windows, you will need a computer able to emulate those OS.  And again, I don't even know if that's what's going on, but that's how I'd write the screenplay if it were my movie.

Edited March 22, 2017 by CaliCat

[OriZ 3,165]

12 minutes ago, CaliCat said:

 

Servers (computers) and smartphones run on different operating systems. That is why you can't run the same application on both. You can't install a computer app on your phone or vice versa. If you want to hack into a server running Unix or Windows, you will need a computer able to emulate those OS.  And again, I don't even know if that's what's going on, but that's how I'd write the screenplay if it were my movie.

That could be a fun movie to watch.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Windows Phones run Windows applications but not sure if they would be usable to pull off a plane back, if that is the new security concern.

[OriZ 3,165]

http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/31/politics/terrorist-laptop-bombs-may-evade-security/

[Dashinka 26,196]

6 hours ago, OriZ said:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/31/politics/terrorist-laptop-bombs-may-evade-security/

Interesting

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

This is pretty simple to say the least and all you people who think it's political are bs and can go pound sand. They obviously got some sort of intelligence about this and are reacting as such. It does not take much of a explosion at 20,000 ft to down a plane once it gets fully pressurized. The only reason the plane in Somalia survived and no one died was because the idiot set it off at to low an altitude. So only he flew out the hole in the plane. 

 

Yes, ieds can be that small. We had a couple small ieds go off during one of my patrols that injured a couple people. The ieds were literally makeshift sofa cans.

[yuna628 9,915]

Putting it in the cargo hold does not solve the problem. Nor does it address it's inconsistency and various easy loopholes. There is also the battery issue which may increase the risk of an equally explosively deadly accident. One day we'll end up getting to a ridiculous point where no one can bring a electronic device on board. We are also going to see a rise in theft, damage, and data breach claims. Hope the passengers take out extra insurance to cover electronics specifically, and even then a lot won't cover such devices placed in the cargo hold.