Is our CR-1 case complex enough to warrant an attorney?

[strait2gateway 1]

Hello everyone,

First post here, hopefully I am posting at the correct forum, if not apologies in advance.

My fiance is Indian and I'm an American -- we are planning on getting married shortly and then applying for CR1. We are going to opt for a civil ceremony in Thailand, just the two of us and honeymoon right after we get married.

Ok, here comes the possible complications, I was married before (a 20 year marriage) and recently got divorced (after a state mandated 12 month separation). I have a young kid and I am much older than my fiance, I am 45 and he is 26. We met online, on a fitness app after I requested to be his friend. I was the first one to message him and we started to chat and have had some fierce online races (we are both fitness freaks) of who would work out the most. That was 14-15 months ago and our relationship has evolved into something amazing and extremely rare. I have been to India and spent nearly 2 months on each visit. He tried to come for a visit but his tourist visa was denied twice, sigh! Anyhow, we have spoken in depth about our future -- we are in love and want to be together. We are ready to face some family resistance from both ends, his will be much much harsher I suspect (my poor man!).

So here is what we have on our side, love, some family/friend support, tons of pictures together, daily Skype call logs (which by luck I was able to request), facetime logs etc., daily text/voice messages that would amount to several novels (from good mornings to good nights and anything in between), his name on my life insurance, joint bank account and his own credit cards. We won't have wedding pictures nor an engagement party (or pics), but were planning on having a ceremony with friends in USA and my family later on. We each have very supportive friends and they have been included in our journey from beginning to end. My brother, my child, cousins and Mother know and are supportive as well. When the time comes, I will travel from the East Coast to New Delhi to accompany my then husband during his CR1 interview.

What we do not have is, family support from his side, no traditional Indian wedding, engagement party or pics, and also his US tourist visa interview logs...he was asked if i was his girlfriend, which he (slightly stumped/nervous) replied "no she is not" to since i was still legally married (but separated) at the time.

My long over due question is:

a. will the fact that his family doesn't know that we are in a relationship and will not support him through this affect us severely?

b. will the visa officer pull his tourist visa logs and be like, "ummm, you said she was not your girlfriend back in February of 2015!"?

c. yup, the age difference, will it be a huge red flag?
d. there will be a 4+/- month (19+/- month separated) gap between my divorce and our marriage. will the fact that i am recently divorced (though i had to be on a mandatory 12 month separation) raise a flag?

d. if a case is complex, will it help to have a lawyer handling it? or should we just consult, get our ducks in a row and then file things ourselves? i can't help to think that a visa officer may feel it is serious, that we are serious about this, if a lawyer is involved. tell me if i am seeing things wrong please.

So I was thinking that our case may have enough complexity that we should consult with an immigration attorney here in the States. and maybe have him/her file the paperwork for us too. I would then travel to New Delhi when he gets his interview date.

Any thoughts, tips, suggestions, we are open to all! Thank you so much for all the help!

Best wishes everyone -- may the visa fairy be good to us all!

[Georgia16 2,858]

I think it will be hard not so much the age difference, but the fact that you are the woman and you being older. AND that his family do not support it, isn't family a big think in India?

When you guys are marriage they seem to not look at the fact that he was denied the tourist visa.

Why can't you guys not get them to take a pic of you when you just are married?

You may want to ask all this in the India forum ...

Edited October 29, 2015 by Georgia16

[strait2gateway 1]

I think it will be hard not so much the age difference, but the fact that you are the woman and you being older. AND that his family do not support it, isn't family a big think in India?

When you guys are marriage they seem to not look at the fact that he was denied the tourist visa.

Why can't you guys not get them to take a pic of you when you just are married?

You may want to ask all this in the India forum ...

Yeah, us women, being older is not socially excepted in many parts of the world! I am told I look 10-15 years younger so hopefully that will help some.

We will take pictures when we get married for sure, but we will be in Thailand, so not the traditional family, in laws etc. -- to be honest, neither of us like big todos, we love our peace and quiet and neither one of us want to put our hard earned funds into a one (or three) day ceremony that will comfort or please others. We have plans for the future and are saving up, so even if we could, we would not opt for a traditional wedding.

Ok, will do, thank you so much!

[strait2gateway 1]

A few more questions.

Anyone with lawyer stories, pros and cons?

Anything extra we should do to front load our case? Anything we need to watch out for?

Thank you so much all.

[mallafri76 1,012]

You're getting married in Thailand during a holiday or does your fiance live there at the moment? India is a really tough embassy to go through and there are a lot of people on here who have been denied visas because they didn't follow the traditions of the country they had the interview in.

India is big on family and usually have big wedding ceremonies and huge traditions leading up to the wedding ceremony. You "eloping" and getting married in Thailand, no traditional wedding and his family not supporting you will be a big thing if he interviews at the embassy in New Dehli.

Since you guys haven't even gotten married yet, you still have time for fine tuning. The interview is always held in the country where the person lives, given he's lived there for six months, I think. But it can't be on a tourist visa, he has to be allowed to live and work/study in that country. You might have better luck if your fiance lived and worked/studied in another country, rather than India, if this is an option for you?!

IMO, there's no point for you to get a lawyer, a lawyer can't change the red flags the New Delhi embassy will probably see in your petition. And yes, DEFINITELY front load, front load, front load your petition.

Good luck on your visa journey and congratulations on your upcoming wedding.

[pushbrk 13,405]

Hello everyone,

First post here, hopefully I am posting at the correct forum, if not apologies in advance.

My fiance is Indian and I'm an American -- we are planning on getting married shortly and then applying for CR1. We are going to opt for a civil ceremony in Thailand, just the two of us and honeymoon right after we get married.

Ok, here comes the possible complications, I was married before (a 20 year marriage) and recently got divorced (after a state mandated 12 month separation). I have a young kid and I am much older than my fiance, I am 45 and he is 26. We met online, on a fitness app after I requested to be his friend. I was the first one to message him and we started to chat and have had some fierce online races (we are both fitness freaks) of who would work out the most. That was 14-15 months ago and our relationship has evolved into something amazing and extremely rare. I have been to India and spent nearly 2 months on each visit. He tried to come for a visit but his tourist visa was denied twice, sigh! Anyhow, we have spoken in depth about our future -- we are in love and want to be together. We are ready to face some family resistance from both ends, his will be much much harsher I suspect (my poor man!).

So here is what we have on our side, love, some family/friend support, tons of pictures together, daily Skype call logs (which by luck I was able to request), facetime logs etc., daily text/voice messages that would amount to several novels (from good mornings to good nights and anything in between), his name on my life insurance, joint bank account and his own credit cards. We won't have wedding pictures nor an engagement party (or pics), but were planning on having a ceremony with friends in USA and my family later on. We each have very supportive friends and they have been included in our journey from beginning to end. My brother, my child, cousins and Mother know and are supportive as well. When the time comes, I will travel from the East Coast to New Delhi to accompany my then husband during his CR1 interview.

What we do not have is, family support from his side, no traditional Indian wedding, engagement party or pics, and also his US tourist visa interview logs...he was asked if i was his girlfriend, which he (slightly stumped/nervous) replied "no she is not" to since i was still legally married (but separated) at the time.

My long over due question is:

a. will the fact that his family doesn't know that we are in a relationship and will not support him through this affect us severely?

b. will the visa officer pull his tourist visa logs and be like, "ummm, you said she was not your girlfriend back in February of 2015!"?

c. yup, the age difference, will it be a huge red flag?

d. there will be a 4+/- month (19+/- month separated) gap between my divorce and our marriage. will the fact that i am recently divorced (though i had to be on a mandatory 12 month separation) raise a flag?

d. if a case is complex, will it help to have a lawyer handling it? or should we just consult, get our ducks in a row and then file things ourselves? i can't help to think that a visa officer may feel it is serious, that we are serious about this, if a lawyer is involved. tell me if i am seeing things wrong please.

So I was thinking that our case may have enough complexity that we should consult with an immigration attorney here in the States. and maybe have him/her file the paperwork for us too. I would then travel to New Delhi when he gets his interview date.

Any thoughts, tips, suggestions, we are open to all! Thank you so much for all the help!

Best wishes everyone -- may the visa fairy be good to us all!

I agree your case has significant complexity and a number of red flags that tend to magnify each other. Professional assistance is certainly worth considering, if for no other reasons than the anonymous quote you'll see below in my signature.

[strait2gateway 1]

Hello Mallafri76

Thank you so much for this -- absolutely makes sense.

The thing is, I am well aware of the traditions in India and understand them deeply (my parents are both from a very traditional background and I spent my first 12 years in a family loving, elder respecting Mediterranean country), hence yet another reason why my fiance and I feel connected. We simply get each other. We also get how other people, on the surface, may see us, but we simply do not want to be conformed by it nor controlled by it.

The reason we picked Thailand honestly is that we don't have to run into red tape/hassles/pressure in India during our marriage and picked it because he does not indeed need to jump through hoops to gain visa to Thailand - no other reason really. :/

Ok, it is apparent that we need a better course of action and talking it out here (is the reason I decided to post) really helps. Bouncing off ideas and having a better game plan is exactly what we wanted.

I have friends in India and I know that we can have a small ceremony there and a civil one there after. We can get pictures, invitations etc., however his family will not be a part of it. In your opinion, would this help reduce the red flag? To me, this whole show and tell is about a story we need to present in order to convince the VO of a fact no one can prove within 10 minutes let alone 10 hours. So, this means looking like everyone else, not sticking out...blending in. Having a few elderly sweet looking, happy folks standing next to us in a picture (during a traditional wedding) will prove that we are in fact determined to have a life together, that we love and get each other?

Yes, I know -- I am being petulant a bit. I am somewhat frustrated with the system, meh!

And btw, we can't be the only two where the family/es is/are not thrilled with the union!

Thank you so much again, this was a huge help!

You're getting married in Thailand during a holiday or does your fiance live there at the moment? India is a really tough embassy to go through and there are a lot of people on here who have been denied visas because they didn't follow the traditions of the country they had the interview in.

India is big on family and usually have big wedding ceremonies and huge traditions leading up to the wedding ceremony. You "eloping" and getting married in Thailand, no traditional wedding and his family not supporting you will be a big thing if he interviews at the embassy in New Dehli.

Since you guys haven't even gotten married yet, you still have time for fine tuning. The interview is always held in the country where the person lives, given he's lived there for six months, I think. But it can't be on a tourist visa, he has to be allowed to live and work/study in that country. You might have better luck if your fiance lived and worked/studied in another country, rather than India, if this is an option for you?!

IMO, there's no point for you to get a lawyer, a lawyer can't change the red flags the New Delhi embassy will probably see in your petition. And yes, DEFINITELY front load, front load, front load your petition.

Good luck on your visa journey and congratulations on your upcoming wedding.

[strait2gateway 1]

I agree your case has significant complexity and a number of red flags that tend to magnify each other. Professional assistance is certainly worth considering, if for no other reasons than the anonymous quote you'll see below in my signature.

Exactly my thoughts Pushbrk -- it can't hurt to consult with an attorney who is experienced with folks with complex visa issues.

In your opinion, which is the biggest red flag or maybe the few that you see right off the bat.

Thank you so much again!

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Exactly my thoughts Pushbrk -- it can't hurt to consult with an attorney who is experienced with folks with complex visa issues.

In your opinion, which is the biggest red flag or maybe the few that you see right off the bat.

Thank you so much again!

Just make sure you get an attorney. You don't get those by following 'anonymous quotes' in web forum signatures.

Edited October 31, 2015 by Penguin_ie

[strait2gateway 1]

Just make sure you get an attorney. You don't get those by following 'anonymous quotes' in web forum signatures.

Thank you Rebecca Jo, I prefer an attorney I can have face to face meetings with

So, I have been reading about front loading, what documents to include and keep the excessive (and repetitive) documents for the interview stage, like not sending way too many chat print outs etc. -- will have the vitals (life insurance, plane tickets, boarding passes, receipts while traveling together) as the foundation then we will put in pictures, chat print outs, skype call logs, maybe a few notarized affidavits from his cousin, my best friend, my cousin and maybe his best friend...

Anything else I should include/exclude or focus on while front loading?

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Thank you Rebecca Jo, I prefer an attorney I can have face to face meetings with

So, I have been reading about front loading, what documents to include and keep the excessive (and repetitive) documents for the interview stage, like not sending way too many chat print outs etc. -- will have the vitals (life insurance, plane tickets, boarding passes, receipts while traveling together) as the foundation then we will put in pictures, chat print outs, skype call logs, maybe a few notarized affidavits from his cousin, my best friend, my cousin and maybe his best friend...

Anything else I should include/exclude or focus on while front loading?

Thanks for asking but I'm kind of a dinosaur now. Ten years married and haven't kept up with details, details, details of visa filing.

That being said though, some things about immigration never change. One of those is proving the bonafides of a case to the CO at interview.

Your new plan of action should probably be to slow your wagon way down. Petulancy will get you nowhere in this scenario. My husband is from the UK and getting a visa from that country is a piece of cake. We did K1 and he breezed through the consulate, as most do. AOS was harder back then and I always felt our interview for that was way more grueling. Our AO in the Field Office didn't give two figs for communication between us. And our marriage license proved a legal union. But I'll never forget him going over our wedding photos and asking who the people were in them. He was looking for family members.

Get to know your man better. Meet his family. Get their blessing on your union. Get them in wedding photos. Then your age difference will be easier overcome.

Your fee today - zero dollars.

[strait2gateway 1]

Thanks for asking but I'm kind of a dinosaur now. Ten years married and haven't kept up with details, details, details of visa filing.

That being said though, some things about immigration never change. One of those is proving the bonafides of a case to the CO at interview.

Your new plan of action should probably be to slow your wagon way down. Petulancy will get you nowhere in this scenario. My husband is from the UK and getting a visa from that country is a piece of cake. We did K1 and he breezed through the consulate, as most do. AOS was harder back then and I always felt our interview for that was way more grueling. Our AO in the Field Office didn't give two figs for communication between us. And our marriage license proved a legal union. But I'll never forget him going over our wedding photos and asking who the people were in them. He was looking for family members.

Get to know your man better. Meet his family. Get their blessing on your union. Get them in wedding photos. Then your age difference will be easier overcome.

Your fee today - zero dollars.

Dinosaur, you are not. I'd say you are more of a legend in our neck of the "visa" woods.

Anyhow, yes we are going to slow things down -- meeting his family, is not impossible, but getting their blessing will never happen! They have disowned his other sibling for marrying someone slightly lower cast, what do you think my chances are? Yeah...zero! No one can change this. They are very traditional, horoscope, cast, arranged marriages, the whole shebang.

Best we can do is include the people who love and understand us. Actually, I know him very well, I know all the family members (name, age, their stories) he is close to -- we talk about all that goes on in his family as things happen, often daily stuff. I know from all the marriages to illnesses in the family...

Awww, thank you! Sending you something better than dollars! My deep appreciation and good vibes

[mwah1 4]

I'm no expert going through this process learning as we go. Me and my husband hired a lawyer. I find there is a lot of great advice but also a lot of anxiety out there - I'm glad I have someone from a law firm I trust, recommended to me etc. I read up on the gov sites what we needed e.g. police certificates etc so I was never in need of someone to tell me what to assemble and when, i've just appreciated someone else putting the packages together telling me it's all there good to go etc...we also have an age- gap (he's the usc and he's 15 years older than me) but we chose to do the wedding in zimbabwe with all the red tape because i think you have to do it the thorough way so no one can fault you later. I too have been denied a tourist visa because i only applied for one after we got married and they said I don't have enough ties to my country of origin to be granted one. We got married almost one month after his divorce decree came out. He was separated for 2 years or more...

My advice if you can afford it get the lawyer to file. It also saves a bit of time at NVC stage but that's not that significant.

I personally feel more confident especially seeing stories here about people being stuck at different stages in the process for months more than other people - to me it's better to have someone have your back so you don't make mistakes than to wish you had someone once you're in a pickle.

Good luck!

[strait2gateway 1]

I'm no expert going through this process learning as we go. Me and my husband hired a lawyer. I find there is a lot of great advice but also a lot of anxiety out there - I'm glad I have someone from a law firm I trust, recommended to me etc. I read up on the gov sites what we needed e.g. police certificates etc so I was never in need of someone to tell me what to assemble and when, i've just appreciated someone else putting the packages together telling me it's all there good to go etc...we also have an age- gap (he's the usc and he's 15 years older than me) but we chose to do the wedding in zimbabwe with all the red tape because i think you have to do it the thorough way so no one can fault you later. I too have been denied a tourist visa because i only applied for one after we got married and they said I don't have enough ties to my country of origin to be granted one. We got married almost one month after his divorce decree came out. He was separated for 2 years or more...

My advice if you can afford it get the lawyer to file. It also saves a bit of time at NVC stage but that's not that significant.

I personally feel more confident especially seeing stories here about people being stuck at different stages in the process for months more than other people - to me it's better to have someone have your back so you don't make mistakes than to wish you had someone once you're in a pickle.

Good luck!

My feelings exactly! Though it sure was super valuable to read some of the threads here as I have gained more insight and feel like we are more in charge of our destiny now, so to speak. Bouncing off ideas never hurt while in the planning stages either, that and moral support is totally needed during this anxiety filled time.

Please keep me posted on how things go for you two, message me if you like -- keeping fingers crossed for you both!

Edited October 31, 2015 by strait2gateway