Israelis Were Asked to Name the ‘Worst’ U.S. President for Israel of the Last 40 Years. Guess Who They Chose.

[novedsac 355]

I believe a more relevant poll would determine how many Americans give a rat's about what a handful of Israelis - or any other sect of foreign nationals indeed - may or may not think about the POTUS.

It must have been a slow news day....

+1000

[Tahoma 2,291]

Every country does what is in its own best interest. Carter is a great human being and I admire him, but he was a terrible president.

We can all wear flowers in our hair and sing peace songs but in the long term all that does is allow people naive about human nature create larger long term problems. Worse yet these people never understand that they set those problems in motion and will repeat the stupidity if given a chance.

In the end I really do not care what other people think who is/was the best American president for *their* country - any more than say Russians should care what Americans think was the best Russian president for Americans.

No, not every country has been allowed to do what's in their best interest. There's a long list of countries that haven't been allowed to do so. A cursory reading of U.S, history would enlighten you to our role in meddling in other.'s affairs, including wars and overthrowing democratically elected governments. Self determination has been more the exception than the rule.

Your straw-man argument about singing peace songs won't fly either, although I got a chuckle from your attempt to portray that as the only other world view out there.

[OnMyWayID 1,489]

No, not every country has been allowed to do what's in their best interest. There's a long list of countries that haven't been allowed to do so. A cursory reading of U.S, history would enlighten you to our role in meddling in other.'s affairs, including wars and overthrowing democratically elected governments. Self determination has been more the exception than the rule.

Your straw-man argument about singing peace songs won't fly either, although I got a chuckle from your attempt to portray that as the only other world view out there.

sigh.. These are not points. Every country does what is in its best interest. Every country meddles in every way it can to the best of its ability. Our allies spy on us, we spy on them. An even less than cursory reading on the worlds history should tell you that. If a county is coerced into taking an action and then takes that action it is because the alternative is worse.. They will turn around and do the very same thing to another country should they be in the position. This should not be difficult to grasp, heck they gave out a Nobel prize and made a movie and everything.

Last week Venezuela decided it wanted to take over some of Guyanas land because Exxon discovered offshore oil in the area. The disputed land was given to Guyana in arbitration in Paris in 1899. Venezuela contends that England made a deal with Russia (who had a judge on the board in Paris) to screw Venezuelan for some future deal that screwed yet another country. The only reason England allowed this to go to arbitration at all was because the US threatened war unless the Venezuela dispute was settled because they wanted no European powers in the Americas... and on and on it goes, every country doing what is in its own self interest based on the abilities and options open to them.

About your original comment: Jimmy Carters greatest accomplishment as president was having both a recession with high unemployment and high inflation at the same time - something many economists did not even think was possible and certainly not fixable without causing a *lot* of pain to a *lot* of people. He did not have the stomach to do this so people like my parents had houses at 21% interest while he sat paralyzed doing nothing because it would cause even more short term pain. President Carter was very good at compromise but very poor at making tough decisions - too much empathy.

I have no idea what you are saying about a straw-man argument since that would have required me to state a position that was easy for me to refute that did not address the issue directly and then knock that straw-main down. I did nothing close to this. I can provide examples if you need this type of logical fallacy explained further.

[Tahoma 2,291]

sigh.. These are not points. Every country does what is in its best interest. Every country meddles in every way it can to the best of its ability. Our allies spy on us, we spy on them. An even less than cursory reading on the worlds history should tell you that. If a county is coerced into taking an action and then takes that action it is because the alternative is worse.. They will turn around and do the very same thing to another country should they be in the position. This should not be difficult to grasp, heck they gave out a Nobel prize and made a movie and everything.

Last week Venezuela decided it wanted to take over some of Guyanas land because Exxon discovered offshore oil in the area. The disputed land was given to Guyana in arbitration in Paris in 1899. Venezuela contends that England made a deal with Russia (who had a judge on the board in Paris) to screw Venezuelan for some future deal that screwed yet another country. The only reason England allowed this to go to arbitration at all was because the US threatened war unless the Venezuela dispute was settled because they wanted no European powers in the Americas... and on and on it goes, every country doing what is in its own self interest based on the abilities and options open to them.

About your original comment: Jimmy Carters greatest accomplishment as president was having both a recession with high unemployment and high inflation at the same time - something many economists did not even think was possible and certainly not fixable without causing a *lot* of pain to a *lot* of people. He did not have the stomach to do this so people like my parents had houses at 21% interest while he sat paralyzed doing nothing because it would cause even more short term pain. President Carter was very good at compromise but very poor at making tough decisions - too much empathy.

I have no idea what you are saying about a straw-man argument since that would have required me to state a position that was easy for me to refute that did not address the issue directly and then knock that straw-main down. I did nothing close to this. I can provide examples if you need this type of logical fallacy explained further.

You're missing the point entirely. The issue isn't whether countries attempt to do what's in their own best interest. Of course they do. That's a no-brainer. The issue is whether they are allowed to do what's in their own best interest.

And that question leads to another important question: if a country is not allowed to determine their own best interests because of meddling by the U.S., why is that in the best interest of the U.S.? We really need to examine what our "best interests" are because that's the reasoning which has driven our foreign policy, and it's not always what it's purported to be.

Why was it in the best interest of the U.S. to overthrow the democratically elected government in Guatemala in the 1950's? It certainly wasn't because the U.S. was spreading freedom and democracy around the world. It was simply to benefit one U.S. banana company which controlled 95% of the arable land in Guatemala.

The same thing happened to Iran. The U.S. and Britian engineered a coup in Iran to overthrow a democratically elected government in order to protect oil company profits. We installed a dictator, the Shah of Iran, and we all know where that eventually led.

Don't even get me started on the chicken hawk's tragedy in Iraq.

The list goes on and on.

Also, let's not pretend that any U.S. President has much control over the economy. I'm certainly no George Bush fan, but I don't place all the blame on him for the near-collapse of the banking system and the Great Bush Recession. On the other hand, Bush and the rest of the right have never been interested in curbing Wall Street's excesses.

By the way, you might want to rethink the value of learning about history and foreign policy from Hollywood.

[GandD 5,966]

One personal attack removed

[OnMyWayID 1,489]

One personal attack removed

I worked really hard for that, you could at least let me read it first.

[Tahoma 2,291]

I'll wait until the movie comes out...

[Expat1 971]

Where's the poll for the non-Jewish Israelis?

Still waiting for the 3/5 rule to pass for them, then they can have a voice

[Expat1 971]

I believe a more relevant poll would determine how many Americans give a rat's about what a handful of Israelis - or any other sect of foreign nationals indeed - may or may not think about the POTUS.

It must have been a slow news day....

This is foreplay to the annual BBBJ our congressmen get every year from the Israelis around budget time.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Goooo Israel!!!!!!!!!

The Jews made the desert bloom!!!!!!!

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Your tax dollars did that.

Edited June 18, 2015 by Mr. Big Dog

[Expat1 971]

Goooo Israel!!!!!!!!!

The Jews made the desert bloom!!!!!!!

If "they" made the desert bloom I wonder why Jewish settlers need to rip up Palestinian olive trees and then throw stones at US officials who investigate their actions.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/settlers-attack-us-consulate-staff-in-west-bank/

Several settlers hurled rocks at personnel from Jerusalem’s US Consulate near an illegal West Bank outpost.

It's a good thing we don't consider rock-throwing an issue of national security like they do.

Summary: These people are neither our friends nor our allies and we should not send them guns and money.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Expat1

[OriZ 3,157]

In fact, Israelis ARE America's friends and allies, and I say that as an Israeli so I think I know a little bit more about it than you do. In the 7(total) years of my life that I've spent in the US pretty much every person I know has acknowledged that, but for some reason you keep refusing to, but that is your prerogative.

Most Israelis, like the US, support the US, consider themselves friends of all Americans, moreso than you will find in any other country in the Middle East(or most everywhere around the world, actually).

And no, it has not as much to do with financial support or any other kind of support but rather shared values and interests.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

In fact, Israelis ARE America's friends and allies, and I say that as an Israeli so I think I know a little bit more about it than you do. In the 7(total) years of my life that I've spent in the US pretty much every person I know has acknowledged that, but for some reason you keep refusing to, but that is your prerogative.

Most Israelis, like the US, support the US, consider themselves friends of all Americans, moreso than you will find in any other country in the Middle East(or most everywhere around the world, actually).

And no, it has not as much to do with financial support or any other kind of support but rather shared values and interests.

But does Gary agree?

I agree, Israelis are America's friends and allies.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

But does Gary agree?

I agree, Israelis are America's friends and allies.

I miss that guy. Only other moderate on here besides us