Almost reached the 2.5 year of phisical prsence but have to go back to europe

[touyats 0]

Hi all,

I'm a green card holder (DV lottery) who first arrived in the USA in January 2012. I resided here pretty much all the time since I first came, and exited the USA so far on 4 occasions for a total of 60 days (due to job, or vacations back to my country).

So I'll reach the 2.5 years of phisical presence in the USA around September/October (I might need to exit the country again for job in the next months).

However, I also got a offer for a job in London, and I'm tempted to accept. There would not be a problem to come back every 5 months or so for 2 weeks - 1 month each time until I meet the 5 years permanent residency span (that is January 2017).

I would not like to lose all the effort I put in becoming a US citizen one day, so I'm wondering if someone here can share some info/experiences on how many times and for how much one can exit and come back without immigration revoking one's green card.

I've read about people who after getting the GC left for 6 months and came back staying on US ground for 2 weeks periods for around 2 years, and only at that point being told by the officer that that would have been the last time they would be admitted to the US as a resident. I do have almost 2.5 years of presence and 2 years of paystubs from a US company located in NYC to show. Would this be counted as a positive factor ?

Edited August 1, 2014 by touyats

[Boiler 45,659]

Suggest you read the requirements to naturalse.

How do propose to maintain the US as your permanent residency if you intend to visit infrequently?

[JimmyHou 611]

Hi all,

I'm a green card holder (DV lottery) who first arrived in the USA in January 2012. I resided here pretty much all the time since I first came, and exited the USA so far on 4 occasions for a total of 60 days (due to job, or vacations back to my country).

So I'll reach the 2.5 years of phisical presence in the USA around September/October (I might need to exit the country again for job in the next months).

However, I also got a offer for a job in London, and I'm tempted to accept. There would not be a problem to come back every 5 months or so for 2 weeks - 1 month each time until I meet the 5 years permanent residency span (that is January 2017).

I would not like to lose all the effort I put in becoming a US citizen one day, so I'm wondering if someone here can share some info/experiences on how many times and for how much one can exit and come back without immigration revoking one's green card.

I've read about people who after getting the GC left for 6 months and came back staying on US ground for 2 weeks periods for around 2 years, and only at that point being told by the officer that that would have been the last time they would be admitted to the US as a resident. I do have almost 2.5 years of presence and 2 years of paystubs from a US company located in NYC to show. Would this be counted as a positive factor ?

A friend of mine went in for his naturalization interview in South Carolina two years ago. He'd spent 10 years in the US, got his green card, then spent 3.5 more years in the US. His company then sent him to Australia and then to Singapore for 1.5 years. During that time, he returned to the US once every 5 months and spend about 2 weeks in South Carolina each time. His application was denied because it was determined that he was no longer living in the US.

He appealed the denial and was given a second interview and approved, but only when he provided evidence that he owned a house in South Carolina, was paying his bills and taxes while he was gone, and presented a letter from his employer that he was on a temporary assignment.

That is just an example, but if you plan to live outside the US, you're going to have to demonstrate that you have maintained residence in the US if you want to apply for citizenship.

[ngo3361 8]

Let's say you accept the job in London and come back every 5 months or so for 2 weeks. Here is my personal opinion:

1) Then it would not be a problem to keep your GC. When you enter the US, an officer may want to know why you have been outside the US for that long. You may want to have the job offer letter from the company in hand.

2) How long is the job? Let's say the job is done and you come back to the US in October 2015. Then I think you can apply for Citizenship in October 2020. In other words, I think the 5-year requirement starts over once you are back in the US permanently.

Again, this is only my own opinion.

[touyats 0]

So I infer that it's not enough to just totalize 2.5 years of phisical presence, never exiting more than 6 months, but there are other factors involved.

I do not own my home, I'm renting it out. What other factors could be considered to state intention of having permenent residency in the USA?

If 2.5 years of phisical presence on US ground out of 5 years is not enough, why don't they just require 4 years out of 5 or something like this?

[alix 20]

You should look into getting a reentry permit. That way you'll show them that you are not abandoning your residence here.

[touyats 0]

A friend of mine went in for his naturalization interview in South Carolina two years ago. He'd spent 10 years in the US, got his green card, then spent 3.5 more years in the US. His company then sent him to Australia and then to Singapore for 1.5 years. During that time, he returned to the US once every 5 months and spend about 2 weeks in South Carolina each time. His application was denied because it was determined that he was no longer living in the US.

He appealed the denial and was given a second interview and approved, but only when he provided evidence that he owned a house in South Carolina, was paying his bills and taxes while he was gone, and presented a letter from his employer that he was on a temporary assignment.

That is just an example, but if you plan to live outside the US, you're going to have to demonstrate that you have maintained residence in the US if you want to apply for citizenship.

Are you sure he always came back after 5 months of staying out? Becase all the websites I find says that absence for less than 6 months never break the continuous residencency. For example this is from http://www.avlawoffice.com/MaintainingLPRStatus.htm

Continuous Residence and Physical Presence Requirement for Naturalization

An LPR applying for naturalization must meet the residency and physical presence requirements. LPRs must maintain continuous residency in the U.S. for five years (three years for an LPR spouse of a U.S. citizen). In addition, all LPRs must be physically present in the U.S. for half of the required residency period. In order to meet the 5-year/3-year residency requirement, the following rules apply:

• An absence of less than six months does not break the LPR’s continuous residence in the U.S.
• An absence of greater than six months and less than one year creates a rebuttable presumption that the LPR’s continuous residency was broken. The LPR has the burden to provethat s/he did not disrupt his or her residence (by providing evidence of intent to maintain residence in the U.S.).
• An absence of over one year automatically breaks the LPR’s continuous residence, unless the LPR has taken steps to preserve residency.

[JimmyHou 611]

Are you sure he always came back after 5 months of staying out? Becase all the websites I find says that absence for less than 6 months never break the continuous residencency. For example this is from http://www.avlawoffice.com/MaintainingLPRStatus.htm

Yep, I'm sure he never stayed out of the country for more than 6 months. I remember him complaining once that he had to come back at Christmas time when tickets were really expensive because he couldn't wait until January. Here's what USCIS says:

----- ----- -----

An applicant for naturalization has the burden of establishing that he or she has complied with the continuous residence requirement, if applicable. There are two types of absences from the United States that are automatically presumed to break the continuity of residence for purposes of naturalization.[9]

Absences of more than 6 months but less than one year; and

Absences of one year or more.

In addition, absences of less than 6 months may also break the continuity of residence depending on the facts surrounding the absence.

http://www.uscis.gov/policymanual/HTML/PolicyManual-Volume12-PartD-Chapter3.html

----- ----- -----

The officer told him that returning to the US every 5 months simply shifted the burden of proof from him to USCIS, so USCIS would have to prove that he abandoned his residence. The officer felt that the fact that he had been living and working abroad for 1.5 years was sufficient proof and that his trips to the US were just vacations.

When he appealed, he presented all the other information about taxes and bills and mortgage payments (which he hadn't taken with him to his first interview) and the interviewer approved him on the spot. If I remember correctly, his second interview was about two months after the first.

So I think if someone's going to follow the "I'll come back every 6 months" plan, they really need to make sure they have something to show that they still reside in the US.

Edited August 1, 2014 by JimmyHou

[ngo3361 8]

Yep, I'm sure he never stayed out of the country for more than 6 months. I remember him complaining once that he had to come back at Christmas time when tickets were really expensive because he couldn't wait until January. Here's what USCIS says:

----- ----- -----

An applicant for naturalization has the burden of establishing that he or she has complied with the continuous residence requirement, if applicable. There are two types of absences from the United States that are automatically presumed to break the continuity of residence for purposes of naturalization.[9]

Absences of more than 6 months but less than one year; and

Absences of one year or more.

In addition, absences of less than 6 months may also break the continuity of residence depending on the facts surrounding the absence.

http://www.uscis.gov/policymanual/HTML/PolicyManual-Volume12-PartD-Chapter3.html

----- ----- -----

The officer told him that returning to the US every 5 months simply shifted the burden of proof from him to USCIS, so USCIS would have to prove that he abandoned his residence. The officer felt that the fact that he had been living and working abroad for 1.5 years was sufficient proof and that his trips to the US were just vacations.

When he appealed, he presented all the other information about taxes and bills and mortgage payments (which he hadn't taken with him to his first interview) and the interviewer approved him on the spot. If I remember correctly, his second interview was about two months after the first.

So I think if someone's going to follow the "I'll come back every 6 months" plan, they really need to make sure they have something to show that they still reside in the US.

Yes, your friend did have good evidence and it looks like he satisfied this from the same link above

"An applicant may overcome the presumption of loss of his or her continuity of residence by providing evidence to establish that the applicant did not disrupt his or her residence. The evidence may include, but is not limited to, documentation that during the absence:^[11]

• The applicant did not terminate his or her employment in the United States or obtain employment while abroad.

• The applicant’s immediate family remained in the United States.

• The applicant retained full access to his or her United States abode.

touyats, do you have anything from the list? I think we can agree that there will be questions regarding your residency when you apply for Citizenship. So, the question is do you think you can convince the interviewer.

[Darth Vader Q 4]

This response is to the Original Poster's initial query and encompasses the follow-up comments from other posters:

Your plan to maintain a primary physical presence for the purpose of employment abroad with intent to return every five months neither invalidates your Legal Permanent Resident Status, nor breaks the requirement for Continuous Residency as a requirement to naturalise. That said, it places you in a potentially sticky situation that may not necessarily have an unsticky resolution.

1) Customs and Border Patrol offices at ports of entry have some discretion (and some believe they have even more) to assess your suitability for re-entry based on your immigrant status and travel patterns. I have witnessed Legal Permanent Residents who lived for extended periods in the United States (several years) only to be hassled at immigration for an extended trip abroad of a few months to the home country. You may find yourself wrestling frequently with these agents each time you attempt to re-enter the country in the manner according to your stated plan

2) At your eventual naturalisation interview, the immigration officer has even broader discretion to determine your eligibility for naturalisation. He may find your international trips (a pattern that many Legal Permanent Residents employ to maintain their status and which the USCIS is trained to probe) as an abandonment of residence even if you have not broken your Continuous Residency. Such a determination would not disqualify you for naturalisation, it would merely shift the burdern of proof to you on whether you did or did not maintain your residence

3) USCIS makes generous exceptions for employees of US-based entities in cases where the applicant was in the first instance hired within the United States and with those who seek educational endeavours abroad regardless of the educational institution. However, Continuous Residency must still be maintaned in these instances. The exception is simply a greater understanding from USCIS of extended stays abroad (which, again, and at the risk of sounding pedantic, do not interrupt Continuous Residency).

So, what can you do?

The most important thing is to maintain ties to the United States for the entirety of your statutory period in ways that are demonstrative from a USCIS point of view as one who has not abandoned his Legal Permanent Resident status. As near exhasutive as possible documentation in the two categories below would be a helpful start:

1) Financial paper trail: the USCIS seems, above all other things, to value highly financial obligations/assets. Continuity for the entire duration of your application statutory period (in your case, the five years leading up to your application date) would be essential:

a) tax returns

b) bank statements

c) credit card statements

d) correspondence from financial institutions

e) insurance (auto/home/renter's/health) for properties/entities domiciled in the United States

2) Residential evidence:

a) Lease/Deed

b) Letter from landlord

c) Utility bills

Good luck!

[N-o-l-a 7,168]

1) Customs and Border Patrol offices at ports of entry have some discretion (and some believe they have even more) to assess your suitability for re-entry based on your immigrant status and travel patterns. I have witnessed Legal Permanent Residents who lived for extended periods in the United States (several years) only to be hassled at immigration for an extended trip abroad of a few months to the home country. You may find yourself wrestling frequently with these agents each time you attempt to re-enter the country in the manner according to your stated plan

^ This. I've personally witnessed them tell someone that she has to stay in the country for an extended period of time this time or they would make a note to cancel her greencard and deny her entry next time. Similar situation of someone really living in a foreign country but just coming weeks at a time to visit. She was clearly told that she must be residing in the United States.

[touyats 0]

Guys, thank you for the thorough answers. All right, it looks like what I intended to do would not really work.

To answer your questions:

1) I own no car nor house, I've being renting out so far. If I move back I'd probably not buy house in any case and I would not rent a house.

2) I would of course still file my return yearly with the IRS, and keep a bank account and credit card and pay back them.

So I'm starting to wonder if I should accept the job in London and then decide within 6 months/1 year wether to come back or not (coming back every 5 months). Would finding another job in the USA for the last year then be seen as I mantained continuous residency for the full 5 years or would in any case the count for citizenship be reset to 0 ?

[JimmyHou 611]

Guys, thank you for the thorough answers. All right, it looks like what I intended to do would not really work.

To answer your questions:

1) I own no car nor house, I've being renting out so far. If I move back I'd probably not buy house in any case and I would not rent a house.

2) I would of course still file my return yearly with the IRS, and keep a bank account and credit card and pay back them.

So I'm starting to wonder if I should accept the job in London and then decide within 6 months/1 year wether to come back or not (coming back every 5 months). Would finding another job in the USA for the last year then be seen as I mantained continuous residency for the full 5 years or would in any case the count for citizenship be reset to 0 ?

What you do in the last year wouldn't really affect whether or not you maintained residency in the preceding years. If you did, then you'd be fine. If not, then you'd be eligible to apply 4 years from the day you return.

Personal opinion: I think if you want US citizenship in a hurry, you should probably look for a job in the US and finish out your remaining 2.5 years. If you'd like to live in the US long term, then you can come back when you're done with the London job and restart your clock.

Either way, though, keep in mind that coming back every 6 months and staying in a hotel doesn't automatically maintain your residency if you have no other ties to the US.