A Moroccan man just gave me some advice...you may not like it tho....

[sara82 4]

I am divorcing my Moroccan husband of 7 years and although it took me the last 3 years to get the courage to end it as I was just very unhappy in the marriage (my husband was nothing like the man I thought I had married from morocco once he was here) he was always nice, polite, cordial (great at customer service) we also worked together in my business for 4.5 years he never wanted to go do anything accept hang around the house or sleep. Prefered to stay home and cook meals and we rarely ate a meal out it was basically no fun at all and I felt like I was going to die!

Anyways...a Moroccan friend of mine gave me this advice which shocked me! he urged me to listen to him and believe him and said he tells American women this all the time but they rarely listen until it's too late and than they cry to him that they should have listened! his advice...Do not marry any Moroccan man especially if he is younger.

he said it is well known in morocco that the men lie to women to get a visa, than (maybe what my husband did to me) they will try to do things to make their wife unhappy so she will divorce them so they will be free. He said they will tell you anything and they practice learning what works to make women fall in love with them.

He said no Moroccan man wants an olfpder wife unless she is rich so he can get her money and if she is older iphe will wait to get her wealth. He said they all want a virgin wife from morocco. He kept apologizing for telling me this and for what I went through with my husband but he was very adamant about it. He said it makes him feel bad because he see' sit all the time and it is a disgusting tradition his people are known for. I was sickened and of course I am heart broken but it makes sense to me now. My husband whom goes to the mosque all the time and was very jealous of me....is looking for sex on craigslist lol (does not know I get the messages) and he is a completely different guy than the one he was in front of my face! It's shocking! I just hope I save someone else even one woman from wasting 7 years of her youth. I know no one whom is still with their husbands from when I was on here years ago. if it's too good to be true...guess again....

Hi , im sorry because you are going through this situation, im moroccan living in Morocco ,unfortunately what the moroccan man he told you is TRUE most moroccan men they get married with a foreign women( with kids or without kids) (young or old) just to immigrate and help some of their family to join them , using alot of methods, like showing deep love,.....ect..while they get what they want they get divorced and they try to remarry with a virgin young moroccan women to have kids and build a new family with , with the help of their mothers , just a few of moroccan men are serious about marriage with a foreign women ,

Good luck to you

[alicia98981 128]

Deleted-- I think in telling my story it is "bad advice" for the situation at hand.

I actually saw your story and I honestly believe you had the most relatable story and best advice. I genuinely think yours is one to be told for other individuals experiencing doubt within theirselves or rather suspicous of their significant other. Thanks for your story!

[Rosesarered 11]

sara82 thank you fir your honesty. Women here really need to understand and be careful. there are some men who are genuine but they are few! My husbands family really love me which makes me feel that at least I was not wrong about them! I will always feel a deep close affection for his mother and sisters, I do not believe any of them had or have any idea of what my husbands intentions were. And god is helping me heal from this sooo much. I recently accidentally stumbled upon incomprehensible evidence that my husband who I thought was running errands and spending a lot if time at the mosque was actually hooking up with sex partners he was meeting on craigslist personals (men also!)

To say the very least I am exhausted from the shock and feel soooo stupid! But it does explain to me why even though I am attractive he never seemed phased by my beauty or acknowledged and affections or flirting with me once here.

He was very stoic and apathetic which starved me! At least now the new information is helping me understand and heal. But I still may not trust men for a bit

[Rosesarered 11]

Deleted-- I think in telling my story it is "bad advice" for the situation at hand.

Krusten_maroc please pm me your story if you won't post it! It might help me too

[sandinista! 1,816]

If you can't see why anyone would take offense to a comment with that attitude, then you have nothing further to say to me. That's called being rude and I won't put with it from you or anyone else on this forum. You set the tone with that sarcastic response when I only asked you to politely direct me to the forums you referred because marriage makes me nervous. I have said my piece with and have nothing further to discuss with you until you can have decent conversations without being ugly. Have a good night.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/415507-do-we-need-a-sticky-for-newbies/

also, you really should apologize to Nigeriaorbust. racist, bigoted comments aren't allowed here, and won't go ignored when you ask for advice or feedback anywhere else here.

[kristen_maroc 126]

I'll re-write some of what I said. As you see in the link that sandinista! posted earlier, I thought about starting a FAQ "landing page" for the MENA forum a few years back because, yes. This place can be harsh. Yes-- this place can be unsupportive. But, ultimately, the people who might come across on the tougher side of "tough love" rather than the loving side are more often than not completely on-point with their statements and criticisms. It's hard to hear, and it's frustrating that there is so much drama somewhere that most of us come for support, but usually the content of the negativity is pretty justifiable.

Why? Let's look at the facts. Morocco and the MENA region are high-fraud countries. I'm sure most people who have been here for awhile have stories. When my husband first came to the US, he went out to lunch with my mother at a Mediterranean deli and the two Moroccans behind the counter gently ribbed him in Darija about his "wife." It is so prevalent that men prey on older women for visas that they assumed he had done the same thing and was married to my mother (who is 29 years older).

The Consulate made a video that mentioned fraud as well. Check out this YouTube video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sjE4nuhSDw (whoops-- not this video-- maybe there is a part 2 somewhere; not sure what happened to it, but it was from the same meeting!!).

You can hear and read stories here, on other websites, etc. But-- after living in Morocco for 5 years, and after getting to know Morocco and Moroccans at that level (and I still have a lot to learn-- it's not a statement of arrogance!)-- this IS A CULTURAL PHENOMENON. It is not something that every Moroccan does. It's not every single relationship, but it happens, and it is more common than most people want to admit.

(As an aside, I've had many conversations with young Moroccan men who think that the women deserve it-- that in some ways, they are doing "sex tourism" or "mail order husbands" because older, unattractive, divorced women with kids cannot actually believe that someone so much younger and more attractive would actually fall in love with them. Of course, I find that attitude abhorrent... but it also exists!).

These fraudsters make everyone's situation harder.

- It makes legitimate relationships (note-- most of these fraudulent relationships feel 100% legitimate to the USC petitioners!!) harder to go through their paperwork/visas/green cards. In other words, when consular officers see so many instances of fraud, it becomes harder to prove legitimacy.

- It hurts people who really think they are in love/in a relationship

- It hurts the way that Americans/"the West" look at Morocco/MENA/Islam

The people to get angry at in this visa journey is not the consulate. It's not the US Government. It's not people on a message board-- it's fraudsters.

So-- then the question comes up... why do others feel like they have the right to "judge" my relationship harshly? Why do people assume my fiance/husband is only looking for a green card?

This is tricky. On the one hand, it's true: we don't "know." Nobody has a window into someone's intentions. But consider the following:

- Back when I was applying for a K1, I read somewhere that 60-70% of K1 applications are denied because of fraud.

- Looking back here, there are very, very, very few people in long-term marriages (say, beyond 5-6 years), particularly when you look at red-flag situations (specifically meeting online with a huge age gap where female is older than male). It happens at times, and there are threads where people have asked "who has made it work long-term," but it is a large percentage where things don't work, and often this happens either after greencard/citizenship, or when the MENA male cheats or falls in love with someone else. Unfortunately, I have no empirical statistics... but very convincing circumstantial/anecdotal threads here and elsewhere that support these statements.

We know that the consulate (in Morocco) has published what they see as the biggest red flags (http://morocco.usembassy.gov/visas/immigrant-visas/fiance-visas.html) that indicate a likely fraudulent relationship. Though I don't have statistics or research, I am confident that this list was created based on experience, research, and facts.

This all being said... look at the situation from an "oldtimer's" perspective (which I don't consider myself, by the way). Women with many, many red flags come here to the forum, proclaiming mad, perfect, mature love with limited communication and limited understanding of each others' cultural backgrounds. The case might be "textbook" fraud... and yet, the USC doesn't think critically beyond emotions, or seem to take this into consideration.

It's a funny place to be in, when you see one of these. As a fellow human being, what would YOU say that our responsibility is? To encourage blindly following one's heart? To ask hard, probing questions (which will doubtless be asked by the consular officer eventually as well, and also by others behind your back once you are IN the States, married) that might help illustrate possible stumbling blocks? Ignoring the lessons of experience and get excited while overlooking possible pitfalls?

It's tricky. Some will work-- some will defy the odds. Many will not.

...

BUT even beyond "is it fraud," which, sure, nobody here can know despite the indicators... in some ways, the bigger question is "are you ready for this, are you honest with yourself about what this relationship would take (and is your fiance/spouse), and is this truly the right decision for us?"

I think, to me, this is my bigger concern with many people who glibly post about how perfect their relationship is, and how confident they are that they can and will make the relationship work easily-- just as long as the silly Consular Officers don't keep us apart!! Usually, when someone talks a lot about how perfect the relationship is to others, it seems like they are trying to convince themselves of the fact and if they are truly comfortable, they are confident and secure enough not to have to talk about it all the time.

The visa isn't the end result, even in a non-fraudulent relationship. The visa is just the beginning of what can and is usually a very challenging journey.

50% of US marriages end in divorce anyway. When you add in cultural, religious, linguistic, and worldview differences-- love won't get you through this. No matter how much you CARE about each other, that won't solve some of these issues. What will is realism: acknowledgement and preparations for a challenge, an insane amount of flexibility for both partners, a commitment to honest and open communication with both partners, a willingness to be humble, a willingness to listen and learn. And, in some ways, above all, a willingness and readiness to acknowledge that you might not always understand all the layers in a situation and even with communication, there will be times where you have to sacrifice even if you don't think you should have to. Even if it feels wrong or you don't understand.

In many ways, this is important for all marriages, but even moreso with a cross-cultural one. And no matter what you talk about before hand to see what you might have to compromise on? You can't cover it all. You won't be able to.

So-- as someone who loves, embraces, and has jumped onto this journey... when someone comes to the forum whining about the process? Part of me want to say, "look-- this bureaucratic nonsense is NOTHING compared to the level and type of sacrifice you must be ready for when building a life with your partner."

[alicia98981 128]

So much what you say is very true and you make some accurate statements. A lot of food for thought. I guess overall the big picture is be careful and be sure of your partner before you commit to immigration. I believe a lot of what you says makes sense in that it's ok to be weary of fraud when you're marrying someone from a high fraud country, just as long as you protect yourself and be sure. Having fear isn't or some uncertainty isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it's better to have some and then have a good marriage then to have none at all blindly falling into a marriage full of fraud. I think now more than ever, having some doubt doesn't mean you don't trust your partner but you are conscious of real life situations and want to tread carefully and that's ok. I believe the real journey isn't the visa, but continuing to make a marriage work.

As far as posting on here, I don't doubt there are some tough love posters, but it's not what you say, it's how you say it. I'm ok with making a reputation for myself as someone who can go either or in responses. I personally believe if you are polite and respectful, even if you disagree with someone, there shouldn't be any problems. Me personally, if I perceived someone to be rude, sarcastic, or judgmental, I will give you that back in return. The biggest thing posting as far as that goes is how you respond to someone sets the tone of the conversation. But that's understood and a topic for discussion elsewhere.

I've heard quite a few people with some fantastic advice but I think yours is probably one of the best I've seen so far.

[Rosesarered 11]

Thank you everyone who is supplying information based on experience and fact. This will be most helpful to our sisters as they go thru their journey with the men they are thinking of marrying from these countries. Hopefully some of the other ladies who have been in marriages and have had a bad or positive experience will come on here And join this topic. I have a hunch most don't come back to these forums once they are happy or they no longer care even if not happy. I only hope that no matter what happens we ladies can all remember to address the issue and not the other people posting. Giving your story is different from giving advice or telling others what they "should or should not" do. It is better received and more constructive for everyone. Thank you again

[sandinista! 1,816]

Of course the people posting "matter", and the validity and overall background of who is saying what should be addressed. Not all advice or postings are equal in helpfulness, regardless of tone. Rosesarered, you've been nothing but mostly polite here, but I'm just not seeing exactly what's supposed to be so informative or profound about the random opining of some Moroccan guy only you know, or the constant reminders in the thread that you are REALLY ATTRACTIVE so it's so totally shocking that you ended up in a crappy marriage for 7 years with a guy you bought a car for. But opinions on that will vary.

Cheers.

[Ismael&Blair 66]

This topic has been very informative and hearing everyone's comments is makes a good late night reading. So much that I felt compelled to add my two cents.

Visa Journey is a definitely a great resource. But I have to say that ultimately, everyone's relationship is different and there seems to be a lot of stereotypes made. But that's human nature. At the same time, I try to look for the silver lining and say there is always an exception to the rules.

Before I married my Moroccan husband, I had experienced more than my share of harsh criticisms, wanted and unwanted advice about the "Moroccan Men, Internet dating, big age gap, etc.", all the stereotypical cautions, and negativity from doubtful family and so-friends. It's all normal because they care for me. But ultimately the decision was mine. Being quite cautiously guarded for the most part in the beginning of our "love affair", I got to know my husband online, then in person, and then I was sure to take the chance in love and accept my husband's marriage proposal and I made the commitment.

I just say TIME will hold the truth. I agree with many of the posters in the past who said that the VISA journey was the easy part. Now the challenging but the exciting part of the journey is being together and building our lives together.

My dear husband and I have been married for 1 1/2 years now and more importantly, my husband has been here in California with me for a little over 4 months now. Will I say it's easy and nothing to it? I would be sugar coating it. It is work on both of us and more so, a lot of communication. But I know we love each other and we are happy and we work at it each day. Am I going to worry about what will happen 7 years from now? No, because we have to live for the present.

I remembered right before my husband arrived to California. My uncle David gave me a piece of advice that I will take to heart. He said he is married to my aunt for 27 years and still he is learning and finding out things about her/ his wife & mother of 3 grown kids. He warned me that marriage is not all rosy. But they have to work at making it work. It's what marriage is about.

So I promise to check in and share our progress in our marriage every now and then. And definitely 7 years from now, see where we are at. I'm positive and I also believe in giving love a chance and my husband says he believes in destiny. And it was meant for us to be together.

Everyone here has the rights in their own opinion and that is all it is. Just opinions...so best wishes to everyone! Happy marriages Inshallah

[Rosesarered 11]

I cant post my picture here for fear of my (x) inlaws seeing it or people from my city but to address Sandinista's comment about my mentioning that I am attractive, I was/am trying to make a point that most of what I had always read about Moroccan men (or any high fraud men) was that they prayed after older, unattractive desperate females and I am not from this category so that theory is invalid and ALL womwn should be cautious

PS Sara98 (I believe she is) Is clearly knowlegable about the issues I have mentioned as she is from morocco

[sparkles_ 456]

I cant post my picture here for fear of my (x) inlaws seeing it or people from my city but to address Sandinista's comment about my mentioning that I am attractive, I was/am trying to make a point that most of what I had always read about Moroccan men (or any high fraud men) was that they prayed after older, unattractive desperate females and I am not from this category so that theory is invalid and ALL womwn should be cautious

PS Sara98 (I believe she is) Is clearly knowlegable about the issues I have mentioned as she is from morocco

Technically they prey on women with low self-esteem and who are lonely, which can be old, young, ugly, pretty and so on. A good con artist borders on a psychologist and can read a woman like a book and pick out personality traits like this that make her easier to fraud and play off them.

[SaharaSunset 165]

Relationships are relationships. And cultural differences can be as vast and varied between American couples as they are between international couples. Fear about the sincerity of your "true love's" intentions is a red flag, regardless of what country your beloved comes from. Significant age gaps will always pose unique challenges, just like marrying into vastly different socio-economic status will pose challenges, or different cultures, or different beliefs about how to raise children. And wise warnings from "people who've been there" will always fall on deaf ears - whether those ears belong to "highly attractive" older American woman marrying a younger Moroccan man, or whether they belong to a 17 year girl from California who wants to marry her high school sweetheart who lives next door, as soon as they graduates high school. A person should be no more cautious marrying someone from a "high fraud" country, than they should marrying someone from the US.

And what is "high fraud" anyway? So a man marries a woman for a visa? Is that so much more fraudulent than a man who marries a woman because she's hot? Maybe both are fraud. But if marrying for the wrong reasons constitutes "fraud" - then all Americans should be on high alert before marrying other Americans.

Lets be real. "MENA" marriages fail for the same reasons so many other do - selfishness. It comes in many forms and many languages. If your relationship is real, and you can learn to be selfless, it will work out...and if its not, it won't. Just like millions and millions of US marriages. As an adult, if you cannot tell the truth and reality and depth of your own relationships, then you are as likely to have an unsuccessful marriage to someone from Norway, as you are someone from Morocco. What I'm trying to say is this is not some mysterious phenomenon in Moroccan men. In these forums its we call it "fraud" - in America its called "irreconcilable differences" - but its the same thing.

Rosearered - you sound like a nice enough woman. And it sounds like your relationship, like so many others (both international & U.S.) ended qith you feeling deceived. You're not the first. You and 50+% of all American marriages end with someone feeling like they were used, unloved, and betrayed. And its genuinely sad that your marriage wasn't mean to be. But it wasn't because he was from Morocco. It was because it didn't work out, for many reasons which none of us know anything about. And the only people who know the truth about your relationship is your and your ex. And if blaming it on him being Moroccan makes you feel better, thats fine - but that's not why it ended.

Relationships are relationships - love is love - and marriages either last or they don't. But it has nothing to do with where anyone is from. Sure, its so much more convenient to blame marriages-gone-wrong on external factors (like being Moroccan) than to take personal responsibility. But lets all grow up. The success or failure of a marriage has everything to do with the 2 people involved, and their ability to make a good decision in whom they marry, and their mutual ability to love and care for one another. End of story.

Edited January 14, 2014 by SaharaSunset

[Mithra 1,185]

This right here is pretty spot on. There are loads of pretty women with low self esteem. No offense OP but I've found that the ones who remind others of their attractiveness over and over are usually the low self esteem type. A quick mention of your attractiveness in your original post would have sufficed.

That being said, I don't really feel like you've been scammed, OP. I feel like, as another poster mentioned, you married someone you didn't really know and found that you didn't particularly like, love, respect, or were attracted to the man your husband turned out to be. Obviously your husband turned out to be a bit of a freak and somewhat of a scumbag but that doesn't mean he set out to scam you. You probably shouldn't have bought him a car and made his life so comfortable if you didn't like or love him.

Technically they prey on women with low self-esteem and who are lonely, which can be old, young, ugly, pretty and so on. A good con artist borders on a psychologist and can read a woman like a book and pick out personality traits like this that make her easier to fraud and play off them.

[Cathi 5,610]

Relationships are relationships. And cultural differences can be as vast and varied between American couples as they are between international couples. Fear about the sincerity of your "true love's" intentions is a red flag, regardless of what country your beloved comes from. Significant age gaps will always pose unique challenges, just like marrying into vastly different socio-economic status will pose challenges, or different cultures, or different beliefs about how to raise children. And wise warnings from "people who've been there" will always fall on deaf ears - whether those ears belong to "highly attractive" older American woman marrying a younger Moroccan man, or whether they belong to a 17 year girl from California who wants to marry her high school sweetheart who lives next door, as soon as they graduates high school. A person should be no more cautious marrying someone from a "high fraud" country, than they should marrying someone from the US.

And what is "high fraud" anyway? So a man marries a woman for a visa? Is that so much more fraudulent than a man who marries a woman because she's hot? Maybe both are fraud. But if marrying for the wrong reasons constitutes "fraud" - then all Americans should be on high alert before marrying other Americans.

Lets be real. "MENA" marriages fail for the same reasons so many other do - selfishness. It comes in many forms and many languages. If your relationship is real, and you can learn to be selfless, it will work out...and if its not, it won't. Just like millions and millions of US marriages. As an adult, if you cannot tell the truth and reality and depth of your own relationships, then you are as likely to have an unsuccessful marriage to someone from Norway, as you are someone from Morocco. What I'm trying to say is this is not some mysterious phenomenon in Moroccan men. In these forums its we call it "fraud" - in America its called "irreconcilable differences" - but its the same thing.

Rosearered - you sound like a nice enough woman. And it sounds like your relationship, like so many others (both international & U.S.) ended qith you feeling deceived. You're not the first. You and 50+% of all American marriages end with someone feeling like they were used, unloved, and betrayed. And its genuinely sad that your marriage wasn't mean to be. But it wasn't because he was from Morocco. It was because it didn't work out, for many reasons which none of us know anything about. And the only people who know the truth about your relationship is your and your ex. And if blaming it on him being Moroccan makes you feel better, thats fine - but that's not why it ended.

Relationships are relationships - love is love - and marriages either last or they don't. But it has nothing to do with where anyone is from. Sure, its so much more convenient to blame marriages-gone-wrong on external factors (like being Moroccan) than to take personal responsibility. But lets all grow up. The success or failure of a marriage has everything to do with the 2 people involved, and their ability to make a good decision in whom they marry, and their mutual ability to love and care for one another. End of story.

Yeah I'm getting pretty tired of reading the warnings about MENA men and how they lie and cheat and scam their wives. My ex husband was the biggest liar, cheater, thief, low life on the planet, and he is as American as apple pie. The moment I married my ex husband he lost total interest in me, and not exactly ugly either. My MENA husband is everything I thought he was and more. Since moving here he has proven through his actions what a good, kind , responsible, loving human being he really is. We have several so called red flags, big age difference, different religion and without a doubt are from totally different cultures, but it works. The first 6 months he was here wasn't exactly all rainbows, unicorns and puppy dogs, he struggled to find work and was pretty down about it. We got through it, that's what marriage is about, being there in good times and in bad, marriage is work. We are happy, my family and friends love and respect him, the same for his family, they love and respect me. Maybe things will change, who knows? But there is no guarantee, no matter who you marry, no matter where they are from. For now things are great, he is a great step dad, a good provider, a loving husband and we make each other laugh, even in the worst of times we make each other laugh. I'll tell you a cute story(it was funny to me); last night he came home from work, he handed me a business card with his name and all his contact info on it(his boss ordered them for him), he said. " hey baby, here's my number give me a call and maybe we can go out sometime." It was corny, but it made me laugh. He worked so hard to get that job, working as a very low paid intern for 6 months, working long, crappy hours until they hired him permanently, getting a business card and being hired was a big deal to him and he made a joke out of it. But I digress, it doesn't matter where your spouse is from, marriage is a commitment, it's work, it has its ups and downs, in the end there is no guarantee. I think saying that every single man from Morocco or from a MENA country only marry women from the US for a green card is wrong, and totally untrue.