"Involuntary separation" and applying for citizenship

[#1suegra 1]

I’m gathering information for my daughter, a US citizen who is living outside the US for this year. She is married to a US permanent resident who will be eligible to apply for citizenship in the Spring, based on the 3 year rule.

My daughter’s situation is that she needs to be outside of the US for the next year, conducting research for her doctoral dissertation. She has received a grant that will pay for her expenses for a year of research. So the timing makes it pretty important that she continue her research while the opportunity is available to her. At the same time, her husband is getting himself established in his job in the states and wanting to apply for Citizenship.

For these reason, it is necessary that she and her husband be apart for a while. They would like for him to still be able to apply for citizenship now.

I found this information on the VJ website:

“ Involuntary separation, such as relocation that becomes essential for business or occupation purposes does not preclude Naturalization.”

Has anyone here tried applying for citizenship claiming involuntary separation to explain their not living together? Does anyone know of anyone who has done this? How did that work out for you (or them)?

To complicate things a little more, they were also apart for the first 6 months of 2011 while my son-in-law was in his home country, visiting his family and most specifically a seriously ill close relative. He and my daughter were reunited in his country that summer, when she also traveled there for her research and for employment with her university. They stayed there together until late in the year, when they returned to the US.

That separation also could cause additional problems, as he was outside of the US for about 11 months and it could be seen as a break in continuity of residence (a requirement that they weren’t aware of until after the fact). His relative, sadly, did die shortly after he returned to the states, so he can provide that documentation of the reason for his long stay outside of the US.

Given all these circumstances, my daughter would appreciate any shared experiences or opinions on the likelihood of my son-in-law being approved for citizenship under these circumstances

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

It's not involuntary if your daughter CHOSE to leave her husband alone. Involuntary would be if she had been kidnapped.

I suggest your son-in-law waits another 2 years, at which time he doesn't have to explain anything, voluntary or involuntary.

[aaron2020 11,652]

It's not involuntary if your daughter CHOSE to leave her husband alone. Involuntary would be if she had been kidnapped.

I suggest your son-in-law waits another 2 years, at which time he doesn't have to explain anything, voluntary or involuntary.

Dude. Chill out. Kidnapping???? Really????

Involuntary is when her employer sends her.

It's not involuntary if she chooses to go without her employer requiring it.

Without knowing what her employer requires, no one can tell you whether it's voluntary or involuntary separation.

There are citizenship calculators online. Use Google to find them. Stick in the days of separation will let you know if she's eligible for citizenship.

[Darnell 8,479]

she chose to accept the grant.

she chose to be outside the country.

doesn't matter that it's what she needs for her doctoral dissertation.

She chose it, so it wasn't involuntary.

Just my 2 cents.

[#1suegra 1]

she chose to accept the grant.

she chose to be outside the country.

doesn't matter that it's what she needs for her doctoral dissertation.

She chose it, so it wasn't involuntary.

Just my 2 cents.

[#1suegra 1]

Below is information that I found from USCIC. I didn't want to load so much information on everyone, but maybe this makes it clearer why they are considering filing now rather than waiting 5 years. Citizenship would actually make it easier for them to be together, because, once he gets his citizenship, he has a lot more flexibility on when and how long he can travel to be with her.

© Involuntary separation. In the event that the applicant and spouse live apart because of circumstances beyond their control, such as military service in the Armed Forces of the United States or essential business or occupational demands, rather than because of voluntary legal or informal separation, the resulting separation, even if prolonged, will not preclude naturalization under this part.

When an applicant and spouse live apart as a result of circumstances beyond their control (i.e.) service in the military or essential business or occupational demands, the resulting separation, even if prolonged, will not preclude naturalization under this part. See 8 CFR section 319.1(b)(2)(ii)©. It is essential to determine whether the decision resulting in the separation, was driven by a true economic need or simply driven by a comfort level that the couple prefers. If the decision made was not driven by a true economic need or required military service, the applicant applying under this section may not qualify.

• Example of involuntary separation: A husband and wife met while working towards PhDs at the University of California, Santa Barbara. The USC husband accepted a tenure track position at Hamilton College in Rome, New York. The LPR wife was offered a Post-Doctorate Fellowship at the Smithsonian. The husband and wife had been living apart for most of the three years. She had telephone bills, copies of e-mails to each other, stubs from some airline tickets from vacations and school breaks, and credible testimony that her husband sometimes drove back and forth on three or four day weekends. The adjudicator approved this case at the time of the examination for having qualified the separation as an involuntary separation.

So, we know that it's at least possible, just not how likely it would be that the adjudicator would rule in their favor. I was hoping that another reader would have had this experience and could share how it went for them.

I do appreciate the input of all of the posters, though. It's good to see how this looks to other people.

[Darnell 8,479]

IMO, her being out of the country is not the same thing, on the example you've provided.

[NickD 203]

First off, your daughter a natural born US citizen, I assume she was natural born here, is not the problem, your son-in-law is the problem.

And the problem is proving they were living together as a provision for applying for that three year marriage privilege. it could be easily interpreted that your daughter is putting her career ahead of her marriage that would hurt your son-in-law to comply with the marriage three year privilege.

If money is not an object, he could fly over and spend time with her, in dealing with the USCIS, seems like an excess of cash could solve many problems. Should change that Statue of Liberty thing to we want your rich.

Safest approach may just have your son-in-law wait another couple of years for the five year, your daughter should be back by then and this living together proof is no longer required. Provided your son-in-law doesn't divorce her and marry a gal from his home country.

But isn't it your daughter's and son-in-law's decision to make? When I married my first wife, sure didn't like my in-laws telling me what I should or should not do. So follow that with my own kids, that constant inference broke up that marriage. All are well educated and perfectly capable of making these decisions for themselves. By the way, I have four daughters, no longer a dad, but a friend.

[Gboree 70]

my question is, why can't he wait? I mean why the rush to be a citizen? Left to me alone, I will not want to complicate matters by applying for something with question marks on my evidence... just saying

[NickD 203]

my question is, why can't he wait? I mean why the rush to be a citizen? Left to me alone, I will not want to complicate matters by applying for something with question marks on my evidence... just saying

Stepdaughter also received this opportunity to study abroad, while she played around when she could finally apply, became a mad rush for her to get her citizenship and US passport. With her foreign passport, she would be required to get a visa for each country, don't need that with a US passport.

She also required a bunch of cash, we could help her with that, but with this son-in-law he may also need that US passport so he can visit his wife, but only if he has the cash to do so. Kind of puts him in a catch 22 position. In the case of my stepdaughter, with that US citizenship, no longer a worry about the residency requirements. All a question about timing and having plenty of cash.

[#1suegra 1]

Stepdaughter also received this opportunity to study abroad, while she played around when she could finally apply, became a mad rush for her to get her citizenship and US passport. With her foreign passport, she would be required to get a visa for each country, don't need that with a US passport.

She also required a bunch of cash, we could help her with that, but with this son-in-law he may also need that US passport so he can visit his wife, but only if he has the cash to do so. Kind of puts him in a catch 22 position. In the case of my stepdaughter, with that US citizenship, no longer a worry about the residency requirements. All a question about timing and having plenty of cash.

This is all good input for them. Either decision has its merits. If they decide for the 5 year mark, they don't have the hassle of having to continue gathering documentation and proving the validity of their marriage to the interviewer, making for a less stressful interview. But if they can jump the hurdles and he is actually able to get his citizenship now, he is then free of restrictions on his travel and length of stays outside the country, the I864 is no longer in effect, and the whole application is behind them forever. Ultimately they will need to decide if it's likely to be successful now and worth all the extra efforts.

[#1suegra 1]

I thought that I would bring this up to date for anyone who might have a similar issue. I have great news! Upon advice of an immigration lawyer, my son-in-law decided to go ahead and apply for citizenship. He had his interview this past Wednesday. Everything went well, and he was sworn in the same afternoon. I hope that this will serve as encouragement to others who may be in the same situation, which their lawyer says is very common.

[Penguin_ie 6,001]

Congrats! Thanks for the update.

[NickD 203]

I thought that I would bring this up to date for anyone who might have a similar issue. I have great news! Upon advice of an immigration lawyer, my son-in-law decided to go ahead and apply for citizenship. He had his interview this past Wednesday. Everything went well, and he was sworn in the same afternoon. I hope that this will serve as encouragement to others who may be in the same situation, which their lawyer says is very common.

This is great news, congratulations to your son-in-law. In thinking back to my wife's interview, never asked her if we were sleeping together. Just that we were paying taxes and bills together and could prove a common home address. And even with your daugther away to college, her home address is still her permanent address.

Hope he can save a couple of bucks to buy an airline ticket, terrible to be separated that long. Wife and I had to go through a year of separation, but not by choice, just had to wait for the USCIS to quit playing around with our lives. Dang, they are slow.

[Autumnal 25]

Good stuff!