Unsure of what to do next - Admin processing??

[Ashley_and_Zhenya 1]

I didn't think we would be here, but now we are. Wedding invitations have been sent, dresses are hanging in our closets, and I have no groom.

My fiance had his interview on Nov 26 in Kiev, Ukraine. He had everything in order and we were certain we would be approved since I make plenty of money and he has been here like 10 times on a student visa and/or tourist visa. We did everything by the book. BUT, he forgot to take his military card, or at least a supplemental form for it (because he can't get the actual card without bribing the military officials for it.)

The interviewer was very short with him and asked many questions about his university experience in the states. Then she said she couldn't approve it unless he brought the military card. He noticed a RED "APPROVED" stamp from the USA side on the documents which made him think we have been approved by the US side, but not the Ukraine side. It makes sense, considering the document he didn't have. At any rate, she handed him a PINK paper checking off that he needed to bring back the military card. So, he did, within like 4 hours, straight to the embassy. He gave back the form and walked away thinking he was approved.

HOWEVER, we now think it was a 221g (Admin Processing) form and we don't really know what this means! Are we like pushed to the end of the line because we failed to have that 1 document? We simply don't know what we are waiting on. Will they contact us? Other VisaJourney members that had their interview the same day have already received their visa (Ukraine embassy is FAST!) but we have't heard anything. We don't like being in limbo and we simply don't know what we are supposed to do. Wait? Will they contact us? What does this mean?

ANY advice is welcome, even though I know most of you will just say to wait for them to contact us. I have never been so impatient in my life, though. This is getting waaaay too personal, and I'm the idiot who went ahead and mailed invitations as soon as he "thought" he was approved. <sigh> I can't say I would ever recommend this process to ANYONE!!! But alas, here we are.

Thank you!

[Cathi 5,616]

Why would you ever book an entire wedding BEFORE your fiance was approved for his visa? Everywhere on this site it says do not make final arrangements for anything until the visa is in hand. The consulate site says do not make any travel arrangements or buy plane tickets until the visa has been granted and delivered. As much as I would love to feel bad for people who get themselves into this predicament, I can't. Common sense tells you just wait until it's a sure thing, ANYTHING can happen at the interview. The only advice I have is to sit tight and wait until the AP is over, it cannot be waived or expedited. My husband was put into AP and it took about 9 weeks to run it's course. You can contact the DOS after 60 days, before that they will not give you any information.

[BABA70 2]

Sorry to hear about your predicament. I think the best thing for you to do now is to go to your Constitient congressman/woman to handle this case for you. He/She will be able to resolve it for you. I think you visa is already approved but he has to provide that Card before getting his visa.

[baron555 934]

HOWEVER, we now think it was a 221g (Admin Processing) form and we don't really know what this means! Are we like pushed to the end of the line because we failed to have that 1 document?

My wife, at the Moscow Embassy, was also given a 221g form, her interview was on a Thursday. By that Sunday, I had emailed them more relationship information and by Tuesday, we received an email that their visas were approved.

So, not to the end of the line, but there may be a few days from the Embassy to confirm with the appropriate Ukraine authorities the card's information. Then after that you wait the "normal" visa processing time and express mailing, or whatever. For us she had the visas within a week.

I had airplane tickets all queued up but waited for email to punch that button. No wedding plans were needed since we planned to merely go to the courthouse.

Your impatience is only due to your own initiative....the Embassy has zero blame.....you should have known he needed that card but now you know.

Relax your honey will be here soon! Congrats.

[Ashley_and_Zhenya 1]

I do realize that the advice not to plan a wedding is all over this place, and I'm not looking for sympathy. I haven't put down any money that I will lose. We have a free venue. I'm not that upset IF we have to change the date. The date honestly isn't the big deal... it's the NOT KNOWING!

I did realize my honey needed the card. I thought he took it with him. He didn't.

He really did think he had received an approval. He never told me he received a paper until a few days ago. Miscommunication, yes. He isn't the one reading all over this site and knowing what to look for and what to be aware of. He didn't realize what administrative processing meant the way I knew what it meant.

What I really want to know is:

Why does AP take so long?

How do we know if we really ARE in AP?

[Ashley_and_Zhenya 1]

Why would you ever book an entire wedding BEFORE your fiance was approved for his visa? Everywhere on this site it says do not make final arrangements for anything until the visa is in hand. The consulate site says do not make any travel arrangements or buy plane tickets until the visa has been granted and delivered. As much as I would love to feel bad for people who get themselves into this predicament, I can't. Common sense tells you just wait until it's a sure thing, ANYTHING can happen at the interview. The only advice I have is to sit tight and wait until the AP is over, it cannot be waived or expedited. My husband was put into AP and it took about 9 weeks to run it's course. You can contact the DOS after 60 days, before that they will not give you any information.

I know you have no sympathy for me, and I don't want it. But, can you tell me the circumstances under which he had to be put into AP? I am curious if specific things take longer, or if ANY delay or document that you had to bring back can take up to 9 weeks.

Thank you!

My wife, at the Moscow Embassy, was also given a 221g form, her interview was on a Thursday. By that Sunday, I had emailed them more relationship information and by Tuesday, we received an email that their visas were approved.

So, not to the end of the line, but there may be a few days from the Embassy to confirm with the appropriate Ukraine authorities the card's information. Then after that you wait the "normal" visa processing time and express mailing, or whatever. For us she had the visas within a week.

I had airplane tickets all queued up but waited for email to punch that button. No wedding plans were needed since we planned to merely go to the courthouse.

Your impatience is only due to your own initiative....the Embassy has zero blame.....you should have known he needed that card but now you know.

Relax your honey will be here soon! Congrats.

I realize you think I'm an idiot, too, but thank you for the hope you have given me that it won't actually take 9 weeks. We got the card to them within 4 hours of the interview, but it has still been a week, so Kiev obviously operates a little bit differently.

Sorry to hear about your predicament. I think the best thing for you to do now is to go to your Constitient congressman/woman to handle this case for you. He/She will be able to resolve it for you. I think you visa is already approved but he has to provide that Card before getting his visa.

Have you had an experience of going to your congressman? I haven't heard anyone say anything about it for the administrative processing stage. Thank you for your hope!

[Sveta & Ron 23]

ashley this sounds like what happen to sveta but officer said was approved and stated in 15 days will have visa after embassy receive the paper now it has been 5 weeks since they got the paper and 2 times embassy said 15 days ... as of today I asked my senator to contact embassy and ask why the broken promises

[Altair17 9]

Ashley, I am not 100% sure what exactly took place, but being born in Ukriane and being familiar with their local laws I think I got a very bad feeling.

By logic they are not required to check that military card (used to be called Military Ticket, back in my time) when one travel to USA or any other country as a tourist or a student since they have an intention of comig back. In this case they're probably trying to make sure that he either went to the Ukrainian army (I had to pay several thousands to by whats called "white ticket", so that an official document is issues that would show I am sick to the point where I cannot serve in the military), or performed "alternative" services (doing cheap dirty manual labor that nobody else wants to do).

Since I get a perception that Genya never went to Ukrainian army nor served that alternative program he most likely has some fake or near fake document for that Military Ticket, which would explain why he would not bring it with him altogether, and then left it before they can ask any questions about it (I'd do the same thing myself). If this is correct I suggest the following course of action:

a) YOU get in touch with this embassy and yell at them requesting status of this case. They'll tell you what the restriction is, and it might be request for additional info (in which case you supply it, and aok), or it might be that Military ticket.

b) one of you (probably you) will need to get a lawyer practicing international immigration law an being familiar with ukraine. Lawyer is needed to avoid personal contacts with the officials by Genya, as he can be sent to jail for 6 years if they create a case of avoiding serving in the army. Hint: I had to pay to avoid this myself. Lawyer needs to research on the matters, and if he confirms that reuqest for that military ticket is not needed (this is a visiting visa, where he can later adjsut the status, and then have to handle official ukraine process of abandoning citizenship) send an official letter to the cosulate of ukraine saying that they're BSing trying to imply a requirement which is not needed. And I suspect that most people that you're aware that got visas were ukrianian girls that do not need to serve in the army.

c) whatever you do it needs to be done fast before they can serve visa denial, since after that you'd be in a considerably worst place.

message me directly in case you need further advice.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Sorry to hear about your predicament. I think the best thing for you to do now is to go to your Constitient congressman/woman to handle this case for you. He/She will be able to resolve it for you. I think you visa is already approved but he has to provide that Card before getting his visa.

A congress person can do NOTHING regarding AP at a consulate. They can make an inquiry and nothing else.

The next thing to do is wait until the AP is completed, there is NO guideline for that time frame, and then proceed. You should never make ANY plans of ANY sort until the visa is IN YOUR HAND. Any number of things can and do happen all the time.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I know you have no sympathy for me, and I don't want it. But, can you tell me the circumstances under which he had to be put into AP? I am curious if specific things take longer, or if ANY delay or document that you had to bring back can take up to 9 weeks.

Thank you!

I realize you think I'm an idiot, too, but thank you for the hope you have given me that it won't actually take 9 weeks. We got the card to them within 4 hours of the interview, but it has still been a week, so Kiev obviously operates a little bit differently.

Have you had an experience of going to your congressman? I haven't heard anyone say anything about it for the administrative processing stage. Thank you for your hope!

A congressman cannot and will not do anything regarding AP. They can make an inquiry as to the status of the case and to make sure it didn't fall between the desk and the file cabinet but NOTHING else. An Inspector General can do something IF it is shown the consulate has violated the law or has been grossly negligent. They have done neither.

BTW I do not think you are an idiot, you have misplaced optimism and this process, all four years of it, WILL break you of that or you will go broke trying to avoid it. Best thing for you now is to salvage what you can of the wedding plans with as little financial damage as possible. Then DO NOT make any other plans until the visa is in his hand and YES you MUST get married within 90 days of his arrival. Like most K-1s you will go to the local Justice of the Peace or County Courthouse, get married and then plan a big "wedding" and reception for later. That's the only way to pull this off without losing a lot of money. The first wedding will be the official one, the one you celebrate is up to you. The government does not give a rat's @ss about your wedding plans so you need to adjust around them. Never assume anything is all going to be "OK"

And in case you think this is a difficult process (it is not) try managing construction projects for the government or getting building permits. I can bring my wife and she can be a citizen before I can get an "Act 250" permit FROM the state to build a school FOR the state!

So take a breath, do damage control now and wait for your approval. I think it will come

BTW there is NOTHING, and I mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING a attorney can do for you. There is nothing TO DO regarding the case of his visa at this point

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

ashley this sounds like what happen to sveta but officer said was approved and stated in 15 days will have visa after embassy receive the paper now it has been 5 weeks since they got the paper and 2 times embassy said 15 days ... as of today I asked my senator to contact embassy and ask why the broken promises

Ron, there are no promises. You are talking to people that have no idea how long it will take and they give you a stock answer. Your Senator will be told they are working on it and basically to "####### off". In a diplomatic way of course.

[Ashley_and_Zhenya 1]

A congressman cannot and will not do anything regarding AP. They can make an inquiry as to the status of the case and to make sure it didn't fall between the desk and the file cabinet but NOTHING else. An Inspector General can do something IF it is shown the consulate has violated the law or has been grossly negligent. They have done neither.

BTW I do not think you are an idiot, you have misplaced optimism and this process, all four years of it, WILL break you of that or you will go broke trying to avoid it. Best thing for you now is to salvage what you can of the wedding plans with as little financial damage as possible. Then DO NOT make any other plans until the visa is in his hand and YES you MUST get married within 90 days of his arrival. Like most K-1s you will go to the local Justice of the Peace or County Courthouse, get married and then plan a big "wedding" and reception for later. That's the only way to pull this off without losing a lot of money. The first wedding will be the official one, the one you celebrate is up to you. The government does not give a rat's @ss about your wedding plans so you need to adjust around them. Never assume anything is all going to be "OK"

And in case you think this is a difficult process (it is not) try managing construction projects for the government or getting building permits. I can bring my wife and she can be a citizen before I can get an "Act 250" permit FROM the state to build a school FOR the state!

So take a breath, do damage control now and wait for your approval. I think it will come

BTW there is NOTHING, and I mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING a attorney can do for you. There is nothing TO DO regarding the case of his visa at this point

Well, thank you for your advice in this matter. I wasn't considering getting an attorney OR contacting my representative, I really just want to know what exactly is going on. I mean, are we or are we not in admin processing? Regarding the wedding plans, there is no financial loss at this point, and I didn't plan on putting down money. Obviously, we were being very optimistic since he has been issued visa after visa with no problems for like 6 years. The wedding will be postponed if we don't hear anything in a couple of weeks.

Regarding the justice of the peace, I do realize that is something many people do, but we really dont want to do it. Without being too personal, I will just say that our wedding really will be a sacrament before God and that saying a vow in a courthouse that doesn't hold weight before God or our families will make it very difficult for us to draw moral boundaries until the actual wedding. So, we are going with our gut and with the advice of all our friends and family to just plan a quick wedding and not have the temptations there. We will not live together before the wedding, nor have we ever, nor do we want to. Get my drift? Our wedding night will be one of those rare ones, and we want it to stay that way.

Now, regarding the comments about making him go to prison for avoiding the military... what in the world? He legitimately and LEGALLY didn't serve due to a hip injury and going to university. I am guessing they are checking into that right now to prove he really had a legitimate reason, and as soon as they find out we will all be happy.... I assume... and here goes my optimistic side again.

[Ashley_and_Zhenya 1]

Ashley, I am not 100% sure what exactly took place, but being born in Ukriane and being familiar with their local laws I think I got a very bad feeling.

By logic they are not required to check that military card (used to be called Military Ticket, back in my time) when one travel to USA or any other country as a tourist or a student since they have an intention of comig back. In this case they're probably trying to make sure that he either went to the Ukrainian army (I had to pay several thousands to by whats called "white ticket", so that an official document is issues that would show I am sick to the point where I cannot serve in the military), or performed "alternative" services (doing cheap dirty manual labor that nobody else wants to do).

Since I get a perception that Genya never went to Ukrainian army nor served that alternative program he most likely has some fake or near fake document for that Military Ticket, which would explain why he would not bring it with him altogether, and then left it before they can ask any questions about it (I'd do the same thing myself). If this is correct I suggest the following course of action:

a) YOU get in touch with this embassy and yell at them requesting status of this case. They'll tell you what the restriction is, and it might be request for additional info (in which case you supply it, and aok), or it might be that Military ticket.

b) one of you (probably you) will need to get a lawyer practicing international immigration law an being familiar with ukraine. Lawyer is needed to avoid personal contacts with the officials by Genya, as he can be sent to jail for 6 years if they create a case of avoiding serving in the army. Hint: I had to pay to avoid this myself. Lawyer needs to research on the matters, and if he confirms that reuqest for that military ticket is not needed (this is a visiting visa, where he can later adjsut the status, and then have to handle official ukraine process of abandoning citizenship) send an official letter to the cosulate of ukraine saying that they're BSing trying to imply a requirement which is not needed. And I suspect that most people that you're aware that got visas were ukrianian girls that do not need to serve in the army.

c) whatever you do it needs to be done fast before they can serve visa denial, since after that you'd be in a considerably worst place.

message me directly in case you need further advice.

Okay, so you are saying that you faked a military card? Well, I am sure he didn't do that. While he doesn't have whatever the "official" military card is that the corrupt military people in his hometown wanted a bribe to give him, he does have some document saying he didn't serve that was given to him when he applied for his passport. He didn't think he needed it (even though I told him he did) because the medical examiners said he didn't need it. So, no fake documents, but possibly one that is not "sufficient" evidence. I do not blame the Ukrainian government for requiring this, either. They have to make sure they aren't letting law breakers leave the country permanently. Governments are there for a reason, and rules and such as well. My biggest beef is that this becomes so personal and so heart-wrenching. AND that they are so unclear with us at this point.

thank you for your advice... i'll contact you again when i need to know how to fake documents or bribe people...

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Well, thank you for your advice in this matter. I wasn't considering getting an attorney OR contacting my representative, I really just want to know what exactly is going on. I mean, are we or are we not in admin processing? Regarding the wedding plans, there is no financial loss at this point, and I didn't plan on putting down money. Obviously, we were being very optimistic since he has been issued visa after visa with no problems for like 6 years. The wedding will be postponed if we don't hear anything in a couple of weeks.

Regarding the justice of the peace, I do realize that is something many people do, but we really dont want to do it. Without being too personal, I will just say that our wedding really will be a sacrament before God and that saying a vow in a courthouse that doesn't hold weight before God or our families will make it very difficult for us to draw moral boundaries until the actual wedding. So, we are going with our gut and with the advice of all our friends and family to just plan a quick wedding and not have the temptations there. We will not live together before the wedding, nor have we ever, nor do we want to. Get my drift? Our wedding night will be one of those rare ones, and we want it to stay that way.

Now, regarding the comments about making him go to prison for avoiding the military... what in the world? He legitimately and LEGALLY didn't serve due to a hip injury and going to university. I am guessing they are checking into that right now to prove he really had a legitimate reason, and as soon as they find out we will all be happy.... I assume... and here goes my optimistic side again.

VJ is open to the public, hence the remarks about prison. Ignore them.

With a K-1 you do not alwys get what you want. If you really do not want a JP wedding then postpone his arrival in the US and make your wedding plans, OR maybe you can pull it off in 3 months, who knows? Depends what you want and what you are willing to compromise. The visa is valid for 6 months after issaunce you you have up to 9 months after issuance to get married...but then he stays in Ukraine until just before the wedding...but then you do not have to live with him before...

The more demands you place on a process you have absolutely no control over the more you will be disappointed. But those are your choices.

You will never find out why he was put in AP and never find out what happened. He will get approved eventually and that's that. No need to waste energy on that.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Okay, so you are saying that you faked a military card? Well, I am sure he didn't do that. While he doesn't have whatever the "official" military card is that the corrupt military people in his hometown wanted a bribe to give him, he does have some document saying he didn't serve that was given to him when he applied for his passport. He didn't think he needed it (even though I told him he did) because the medical examiners said he didn't need it. So, no fake documents, but possibly one that is not "sufficient" evidence. I do not blame the Ukrainian government for requiring this, either. They have to make sure they aren't letting law breakers leave the country permanently. Governments are there for a reason, and rules and such as well. My biggest beef is that this becomes so personal and so heart-wrenching. AND that they are so unclear with us at this point.

thank you for your advice... i'll contact you again when i need to know how to fake documents or bribe people...

Bribery is the way to do things in Ukraine. You don't have to like it. My MIL pays the mailman a bribe to get her pension check. We paid bribes for documents for the animals Alla brought and to get documents faster that the usual "Ukrainian 3 weeks"

You are very young and have a perfectly lovely set of principals. Be prepared and do not complain about what happens when you follow them.

The only thing that surpries me is that your fiancee did not pay the bribe. Ukrainians old enough to get married know about this stuff. He seriously would not? In case you have not discovered it yet, most Ukrainians have a very well developed sense of situational morality.

But, as I said, you are young, your fiance is young. Neither of you survived the Soviet Union and neother knows how to do what is needed to live in such conditions. NO ONE followed the "rules" because the rules were ridiculous! However it developed an entire culture with no regard for rules! I find it exhilirating and was amazed at how smoothly and rapidly a construction project can progress when the proper skids are greased with the proper amount of cash. The lack of liability lawyers is evident in every aspect of life, and totally refreshing!

Everyone, from the clerk at the courthouse, cops, even the person selling tickets at the train station...the mailman, teachers, every aspect of official life...every one...is totally and completely corrupted with bribery.