If secession were to come up for a vote in your state...

[^_^ 5,021]

<EOM>

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Absolutely.

[Dakine10 5,452]

No. Civil war historians debate whether the south attempted to seceed from the union over slavery or states rights. Regardless of how you look at it, it was one of the most significant and pivotal events in American history.

Attempting to seceed from the union because you're butt-hurt just doesn't have the same ring to it.

[Niels Bohr 72]

Agreed. States seceeding in the past lead to a Civil War.

No. Civil war historians debate whether the south attempted to seceed from the union over slavery or states rights. Regardless of how you look at it, it was one of the most significant and pivotal events in American history.

Attempting to seceed from the union because you're butt-hurt just doesn't have the same ring to it.

[sly_wolf 199]

A few anti-americans. I say we deport those.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

No. Civil war historians debate whether the south attempted to seceed from the union over slavery or states rights. Regardless of how you look at it, it was one of the most significant and pivotal events in American history.

Attempting to seceed from the union because you're butt-hurt just doesn't have the same ring to it.

Actually, it's only the revisionists who deny the facts surrounding the events that led up to the Civil War. It is clear, historically, that the issue of slavery was at the center of the conflict. Initially, the southern states complained that the free states were disregarding slave owners rightful ownership of property by refusing to return slaves who had escaped. They wanted the Federal Gov't. to step in and enforce their Right of Property. The southern states only decided to secede when they felt the free states were not following along the same rules.

....

"The Civil War was not fundamentally about "states rights". Asserting a state's right to secede doesn't speak to why the state wants to secede. When the northern states were threatened by the War of 1812, they considered secession. When South Carolina was threatened by a tariff, they attempted to nullify the law. When a state's self interests come into play, they'll take advantage of whatever political mechanism they can imagine to assert that self interest, up to and including nullification, secession, and war.

The real story is not in the political mechanics but the underlying interest in preserving slavery that forced the South to become so hell bent on their "states rights". If Northern states had seceded over the War of 1812, we wouldn't assert the fundamental cause was a debate over state's rights. Rather we'd say it was their opposition to the War of 1812. The same applies for the South's secession as well. Their interest in preserving slavery drove them to use untested constitutional mechanism and eventually go to war.

And when you consider the South's conundrum it becomes clearer.

White southerners lived in constant, real fear of slavery/black insurrection. They had experienced violence from slaves during Turner's Rebellion. They looked south to the Haitian Revolution and similar rebellions in the sugar colonies and saw little comfort in how those societies were transformed. Maintaining the institutions associated with slavery was a matter of life/death for white southerners. Laws were passed to further and further restrict the activities of slaves and freed blacks and codify racial distinctions. Even if the injustice of the system might be acknowledged by some southerners, the fear that slaves or freed blacks might (perhaps justifiably) seek vengeance was deep."

http://history.stack...de-from-the-u-s

Edited November 16, 2012 by Commie Appeaser

[Penny Lane 8,159]

Absolutely.

A real American!

[JohnR! 5,495]

A few anti-americans. I say we deport those.

If I felt so strongly about secession, I would rather pack, get on a plane and fly to somewhere more amenable to my notions, in the same manner I would choose to leave a room or place where I did not feel comfortable.

It is really not all that complicated!

[Penny Lane 8,159]

If I felt so strongly about secession, I would rather pack, get on a plane and fly to somewhere more amenable to my notions, in the same manner I would choose to leave a room or place where I did not feel comfortable.

It is really not all that complicated!

The funny thing is, these "real Americans" always tell others to just move away if they don't like the way their country is going.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

California - Of course we want to leave, and all the red states want us to leave as well. Good times would come to all, except Nevada and Oregon, because all the tax cheats that say they live there but are "just visiting" in California would treated like the scum they really are.

[^_^ 5,021]

24 votes in so far.

yes - 9

no - 13

abstain - 2

so far it appears the midwesterners are the most patriotic

Edited November 16, 2012 by ^_^

[Ban Hammer 12,837]

[quote name=' timestamp='1353079838' post='5826060]

24 votes in so far.

yes - 9

no - 13

abstain - 2

so far it appears the midwesterners are the most patriotic

define "patriotic"

[JohnR! 5,495]

The funny thing is, these "real Americans" always tell others to just move away if they don't like the way their country is going.

True.... :rofl:

On a positive note, fact remains there is only a handful of these individuals who have no knowledge of American history and as a consequence cannot understand how the entire country functions.... By no means do they represent the majority.

[^_^ 5,021]

define "patriotic"

7-0

[JohnR! 5,495]

California - Of course we want to leave, and all the red states want us to leave as well. Good times would come to all, except Nevada and Oregon, because all the tax cheats that say they live there but are "just visiting" in California would treated like the scum they really are.

In the process should the folks up north in Jefferson be given the choice to stay in the union or come along and join the 8th economy in the world?