Misconception about the Indians (Native Americans).

[Peter_Pan 661]

I have seen this idea floating through cyberspace more times than I can count: that if you oppose immigration, then you should get out of the US because it was originally Indian land. Irks me that people are unable to make the difference between winning a war (and all its consequences), and opposing a policy.

^Natives Americans have no call in claiming it was their land, since they have lost it through WAR. That simply means they have no claim to it anymore – they didn’t accept the whites, the whites were simply stronger and won.

Am I wrong?

Edited June 20, 2012 by Peter_Pan

[Nagishkaw 510]

Who is 'they' ?

So if 0sama bin Laden's flunkies come to the US and impose sharia law then I guess you should keep your mouth shut because you lost. BTW, there is no such thing as " Indian land ". You'd have to go to Mumbai and all points east for that.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Nagishkaw

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

I have seen this idea floating through cyberspace more times than I can count: that if you oppose immigration, then you should get out of the US because it was originally Indian land. Irks me that people are unable to make the difference between winning a war (and all its consequences), and opposing a policy.

^Natives Americans have no call in claiming it was their land, since they have lost it through WAR. That simply means they have no claim to it anymore – they didn’t accept the whites, the whites were simply stronger and won.

Am I wrong?

You are absolutely right, war equals broken treaties, lies, half-truths, swindles and other instruments of dissembly; now why don't you sign over your house, you can live in part of the garage until I arbitrarily change my mind and renege on our treaty. I'm bigger and stronger and shiftier than you so you have no choice in the matter. I'll be sure be to keep you warm with smallpox-laden blankets and firewater. I'll even re-educate your kids in my language and customs and then relegate them to the margins of MY society. They'll be a source of humour and derision for years to come.

[Ban Hammer 12,857]

political topic, so off to p&r

[JohnR! 5,495]

1340175224[/url]' post='5464411']

I have seen this idea floating through cyberspace more times than I can count: that if you oppose immigration, then you should get out of the US because it was originally Indian land. Irks me that people are unable to make the difference between winning a war (and all its consequences), and opposing a policy.

^Natives Americans have no call in claiming it was their land, since they have lost it through WAR. That simply means they have no claim to it anymore – they didn’t accept the whites, the whites were simply stronger and won.

Am I wrong?

My take on that cartoon and others is to call attention to the hypocrisy of many in our country who would gladly shut our doors indiscriminately when they themselves or their ancestors came through those same doors. It is a call to what the British aptly name 'pull up the ladder Jack'.

To a lesser extent, in your daily routine you will most likely see variations of this notion. Try and observe how many times someone will make an attempt to hold the elevator door open for an approaching person or have you ever seen anyone taking up enough room for two cars when parking at a busy place, even if they can see someone else looking for a parking spot?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Peter Pan's understanding of the "Red Man."

[Teddy B 17,251]

The only immigration I'm against is illegal immigration.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

The only immigration I'm against is illegal immigration.

[kytwell 179]

My take on that cartoon and others is to call attention to the hypocrisy of many in our country who would gladly shut our doors indiscriminately when they themselves or their ancestors came through those same doors.

Not sure about your ancestors, but mine came over on a boat and registered at Ellis Island. Once here they did their best to assimilate in to customs here, learned the language, while passing on small traditions to their kids. As opposed to sneaking across a border and registering for free gov't services.

To a lesser extent, in your daily routine you will most likely see variations of this notion. Try and observe how many times someone will make an attempt to hold the elevator door open for an approaching person

Yes, I do this all the time, it's basic courtesy and respect. It has nothing to do with upholding the laws of our nation though.

or have you ever seen anyone taking up enough room for two cars when parking at a busy place, even if they can see someone else looking for a parking spot?

All the time I see this, mainly women in minivans with Obama/Biden bumper stickers, other times in Prius's with save the whale stickers and yet other times I see it with the hoopdies with spinning rims. Oh and the old blue haired bats, that shouldn't even have a license. Not sure what connection you were attempting though in regards to immigration?

[JohnR! 5,495]

Not sure about your ancestors, but mine came over on a boat and registered at Ellis Island.

Mine came on a boat and never registered anywhere... that does not make them illegals.

Many registered at Ellis Island and lied about their age or name. Were they here illegally?

Edited June 20, 2012 by Gegel

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Mine came on a boat and never registered anywhere... that does not make them illegals.

Many registered at Ellis Island and lied about their age or name. Were they here illegally?

I think almost all ancestors arrived by boat or land bridge, and I suppose some of them did come through Ellis Island. My wife would be the first in my lineage to arrive by airplane, if we decided to breed.

[Dakine10 5,452]

I have seen this idea floating through cyberspace more times than I can count: that if you oppose immigration, then you should get out of the US because it was originally Indian land. Irks me that people are unable to make the difference between winning a war (and all its consequences), and opposing a policy.

^Natives Americans have no call in claiming it was their land, since they have lost it through WAR. That simply means they have no claim to it anymore – they didn’t accept the whites, the whites were simply stronger and won.

Am I wrong?

Yes, you are absolutely wrong. I can tell you just from helping out my daughter with a class project this year, that the average 4th grader has a better understanding of American history than that.

[kytwell 179]

Mine came on a boat and never registered anywhere... that does not make them illegals.

Depends on what year? Was the US constitution written yet? Were their US immigrations laws in place?

Many registered at Ellis Island and lied about their age or name. Were they here illegally?

Being here illegally and falsifying statements to authorities are 2 different things.

Edited June 20, 2012 by kytwell

[JohnR! 5,495]

Being here illegally and falsifying statements to authorities are 2 different things.

How about falsifying statements to immigration authorities upon entering the country with the purpose to immigrate? Would that give them admittance into the illegal club?

[kytwell 179]

How about falsifying statements to immigration authorities upon entering the country with the purpose to immigrate? Would that give them admittance into the illegal club?

Is the key to winning debate's now to see who can dream up the most what if, asinine theoretical scenario's?

As for your question: I have 0 clue what the penalties were back in the day for falsifying statements. I have no desire to check either. If you feel like researching it go ahead or if you already know what the law stated, then you'll be able to answer your own question.

Edited June 20, 2012 by kytwell