TEXAS DAD BEATS HIS DAUGHTER’S MOLESTER TO DEATH

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Non Americans (or Americans from different cultures) should have noticed by now that Americans are both very religious and see self-control and refraining from violence and speaking quietly and using cutlery and obeying the law and not referring to aspects of the alimentary canal in every sentence, as mild forms of homosexuality and pansy-stuff and snobbery and very, very alien to the American way of life as ordained by jesus when he wrote the constitution.

Any attempt to logic any American away from this is like trying to convince Mitt Romney to stop dying his hair and grow old gracefully

It's like a broken pencil

Pointless

What I see is people who consider themselves Christian but seem to have no real clue what that means beyond swearing some kind of allegiance to the Holy Bible - regarding every uttered word as a dictate from God, except of course the passages that don't coincide with their narrow understanding.

[Captain Oates 910]

What I see is people who consider themselves Christian but seem to have no real clue what that means beyond swearing some kind of allegiance to the Holy Bible - regarding every uttered word as a dictate from God, except of course the passages that don't coincide with their narrow understanding.

Its weird that the non-believers are living the way jesus recommended and all the christians are cursing and killing and doing meth and shooting abortion doctors and saying they want to electrocute mexicans on a fence and they believe in informal justice etc etc etc etc

I bet my boots the pedo called himself a christian

It's a cultural thing, far too late to change, and I might as well try and convince my cat not to chase birds on the balcony

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Its weird that the non-believers are living the way jesus recommended and all the christians are cursing and killing and doing meth and shooting abortion doctors and saying they want to electrocute mexicans on a fence and they believe in informal justice etc etc etc etc

I bet my boots the pedo called himself a christian

It's a cultural thing, far too late to change, and I might as well try and convince my cat not to chase birds on the balcony

Not all Christians are funda-MENTAL-ists. Just all the nutty ones.

[lierre 224]

Aaydrian, I will not dignify your stab at offending my precious DNA with answers to your where-the-heck-did-that-come-from rhetorics.

Hi Leatherneck! Research evidence states that a violent parent (whether towards a family member or not) has often been found to engage in psychologically and physically aggressive parenting (e.g. spanking, slapping, shaking, etc.) practices, leading to an abusive household. If you would like to solidify your stand about violent parents (and them being the shiznit when they can kill human beings with a few blows to the head) and to continue predicting my future children's well-being, you are welcome to wow us with the facts behind this parenting philosophy you so highly believe I should convert to.

[Captain Oates 910]

My son put me in hospital twice by the time he was five

I was holding him when he was two, and he stuck both fingers in my eyes and blinded me

Second time he jerked his head up and chipped bone from my elbow

Both times I was taken into the little room and asked why I had been in a violent injury incident with my child !

I will probably be part of some parent/child violence statistic somewhere

[james&olya 1,121]

The knowledge of medically determined physical abuse is very basic. I don't need to be decades away from graduation to know what that is.

Your inexperience and lack of basic knowledge of this subject is appalling if you really are a physician! While evidence of physical trauma would be an additional nail in the coffin, so to speak, the vast majority of child sexual abuse does not result in any physical trauma sufficient to use as direct evidence of an assault. A completely normal physical exam of a child's genitalia is not only consistent with a history of abuse but the usual finding. As such your argument that the results of the medical exam were necessary to corroborate that the abuse actually took place would allow the majority of perpetrators to get away with their crimes!

[james&olya 1,121]

No such thing as British law - but there is the law of England and Wales

US Federal law adopted the law of England and Wales right up to the mid 1800's when 'stated case' law in England was sent straight to the US so that laws could be updated automatically

The common law is the law that has lasted since 'time immemorial' and that is used in the US for many offenses.

I am sure that the defense of 'provocation' will have found its way into the Federal code and the main thing to note is that the provocation need not been intentional

In the example I gave where a man dressed as a woman in order to be kissed and cuddled by another man, 'she' did not intend to provoke an attack - just the opposite - and yet 'her' killer was acquitted because of provocation

So the main point is that US and English law are invariably at one in these circumstances and the defense is proved for

My concern is that a great percentage of the population are not intellectually equipped to make these fine distinctions, and that vigilante attacks hours or days after the provocation are sometimes seen as reasonable and justified by the vigilante

Provocation has to be in the heat of the event and not cold blooded retribution which is a crime

I do get the impression that many contributors to this thread simply do not care about the law and say that in Texas, we lynch people as we think fit and yankee law has no place here - ie that killing the person a week later and in cold blood, is just fine and dandy and it's the Texan way

It's that mind-set that I have a problem with

[lierre 224]

Your inexperience and lack of basic knowledge of this subject is appalling if you really are a physician! While evidence of physical trauma would be an additional nail in the coffin, so to speak, the vast majority of child sexual abuse does not result in any physical trauma sufficient to use as direct evidence of an assault. A completely normal physical exam of a child's genitalia is not only consistent with a history of abuse but the usual finding. As such your argument that the results of the medical exam were necessary to corroborate that the abuse actually took place would allow the majority of perpetrators to get away with their crimes!

I never said a positive medical report was needed to determine the presence of abuse.

You quoted what I said and deleted the rest. Way to go in trying to be objective!

What appalls me is the lack of facts in the news article. It was poorly written. There was report of the child being brought to the hospital, but the result of the report was not mentioned. It is irresponsible journalism. But most people on here don't seem to think that's relevant.

Edited June 15, 2012 by ivyanddan

[ready4ONE 5,400]

True, but....

According to the OP, there were screams and the man saw his daughter being sexually assaulted. While we may not know what exactly the father was trying to stop, there is also no reason to assume he's a vigilante killer who should no longer be the girl's guardian.

The latter is not my stated position either. But the article is so thin I don't believe it supports the position the killing was justified either. It is also too thin to know what the father did to kill the man either, some people can't take a punch so it is impossible to say if the father went totally berserk or just landed a few solid punches.

Regardless the story is far too bereft of information to exonerate the father, or even conclude a molestation of any sort was occurring.

[Leatherneck 693]

Aaydrian, I will not dignify your stab at offending my precious DNA with answers to your where-the-heck-did-that-come-from rhetorics.

Hi Leatherneck! Research evidence states that a violent parent (whether towards a family member or not) has often been found to engage in psychologically and physically aggressive parenting (e.g. spanking, slapping, shaking, etc.) practices, leading to an abusive household. If you would like to solidify your stand about violent parents (and them being the shiznit when they can kill human beings with a few blows to the head) and to continue predicting my future children's well-being, you are welcome to wow us with the facts behind this parenting philosophy you so highly believe I should convert to.

Nice try, your attempted change of focus from protecting children, yours or those of others won't fly by muddying the debate with a deflection to my never mentioned stand on parenting, violent or otherwise. How you managed to comprehend some "parenting philosophy" from a post regarding a father protecting his child and how you might protect yours based on your numerous posts, is beyond me.

How one normally parents and how a parent reacts to seeing their child being molested is two different animals.

[Captain Oates 910]

I bet nobody has checked to see if the dead guy's wife had been having an affair with the killer and insured her husband for a million dollars the week before

Seriously, has anyone checked that ?

[lierre 224]

Just in case anyone is interested on an update:

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20120613/texas-father-may-be-justified-in-killing-daughters-alleged-attacker-120613/

http://www.christianpost.com/news/texas-father-justified-in-beating-alleged-child-molester-to-death-76561/

Some excerpts:

Facts given by the police on the case...

According to the authorities, the 23-year-old father was hosting a get-together at his ranch when he was reportedly told by another child that the man, also unidentified but said to be 47-years-old and from the nearby town of Gonzalez, had taken his daughter into the brushes. The father told police that he found the man partially clothed and molesting his daughter. He then attacked the man, hitting him numerous times in the head. The alleged child molester died at the scene. Reports indicate that it was the father who was first to call 911 about the beating and alleged molestation. The father was not arrested, according to reports.

On the daughter...

the daughter was taken to a hospital in Victoria, Tx. for examination.

The sheriff said she was "OK, besides the obvious mental trauma."

On the father...

The accused father has reportedly expressed remorse and claimed that he had no intention of killing the man, whose body was still awaiting an autopsy. The lead investigator in the case, Sheriff Micah Harmon, said there was no evidence causing him to question the father's account, and that he thought it unlikely that the man would face any charges.

On the law...

The killing may be justified under Texas' Defense of Third Person law. The law allows citizens to use deadly force against anyone committing or attempting to commit sexual assault and other crimes.

"The actor would be justified under Section 9.31 or 9.32 in using force or deadly force to protect himself against the unlawful force or unlawful deadly force he reasonably believes to be threatening the third person he seeks to protect," said a description of the law on the Texas penal code website.

He will be tried by a jury of his peers. This truly sheds better light on the circumstances.

Edited June 15, 2012 by ivyanddan

[Marilyn. 340]

While searching for his daughter, he heard the girl screaming and came upon his daughter and the 47-year-old suspect partially naked. While trying to separate the two, the father punched the man several times in the head.

http://austinist.com/2012/06/13/4_year_old_girl_allegedly_sexually.php

[lierre 224]

Nice try, your attempted change of focus from protecting children, yours or those of others won't fly by muddying the debate with a deflection to my never mentioned stand on parenting, violent or otherwise. How you managed to comprehend some "parenting philosophy" from a post regarding a father protecting his child and how you might protect yours based on your numerous posts, is beyond me.

How one normally parents and how a parent reacts to seeing their child being molested is two different animals.

I'm not allowed to make assume anything on your parenting style using your statements the way you made conclusions on my future parenting style with my statements?

Now, isn't that just unfair?

Edited June 15, 2012 by ivyanddan

[Leatherneck 693]

I'm not allowed to make conclusions on your parenting style using your statements the way you made conclusions on mine with my statements?

Now, isn't that just unfair?

You don't get how one normally parents and how a parent reacts in any given situation at any given time to protect a child are two very different things? Really, you can't see the difference?