Military board says Marine should be dismissed

[Ban Hammer 12,835]

And from your statement before you think it is right.

i did that for 20 years, remember?

[Danno 1,228]

Yeah this is pretty standard.

On one hand though, there should be leeway to comment about the President in a political manner as long as you aren't attacking the person himself.

Lets imagine we are nationally in a life and death struggle with another country, would it be reasonable to allow our military to publicly denigrate the Commander in chiefs performance?

The enemy need not employ Jane fonda, ....we have our own troops ready to discredit their leaders and the war effort.

To be fair, I have forgotten what exactly was even posted to cause all this but I am speaking broadly on the issue of our militaries need to maintain good order.

[james&olya 1,121]

Hey Obama is the Commander in Chief, you can't in such a public way dis your first Sergeant, your CO nor the President.

You want the freedom to do that...... leave the Service.

We don't time disciplinary action to coincide with peoples enlistment contract.

Wow, agreeing with Danno again! You are right, insubordination is a very serious offense in the military. There is no way that a military can function if there is not proper respect demonstrated for your commanders. Every military member is aware of this. If you want to exercise all the freedoms you are tasked with protecting you must get out of the military first! This should be a non-issue with right-wingers and would be if they had any first-hand knowledge of military theory and service!

[Leatherneck 693]

As much as I am not a fan of Obama - the UCMJ clearly states that Marine's conduct is not tolerated and is punishable. That Marine's attitude had to be checked to prevent a break down of order and discipline within his unit and among his subordinates.

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

CAMP PENDLETON, Calif. (AP) — A Marine who criticized President Barack Obama on his Facebook page has committed misconduct and should be dismissed, a military board recommended late Thursday.

The Marine Corps administrative board made the decision after a daylong hearing at Camp Pendleton for Sgt. Gary Stein.

The board also recommended that Stein be given an other-then-honorable discharge. That would mean Stein would lose his benefits and would not be allowed on any military base.

The board's recommendations go to a general who will either accept or deny them. If the general disagrees with the board, the case could go to the secretary of the Navy.

Stein's lawyers argued that the 9-year Marine, whose service was to end in four months, was expressing his personal views and exercising his First Amendment rights.

"We're truly surprised and disappointed but it was an honor to fight for a hero like Sgt. Stein and every other Marine's right to speak freely," Stein's defense attorney Marine Capt. James Baehr said.

Stein addressed board members during Thursday's hearing, tell them he loved the Marine Corps and wanted to re-enlist, Baehr said.

During the hearing, the prosecutor, Capt. John Torresala, said Stein went as far as superimposing images of Obama's face on a poster for the movie "Jackass."

Torresala argued that Stein's behavior repeatedly violated Pentagon policy that limits the free speech rights of service members, and said he should be dismissed after ignoring warnings from his superiors about his postings.

The government submitted screen grabs of Stein's postings on one Facebook page he created called Armed Forces Tea Party, which the prosecutor said included the image of Obama on the "Jackass" movie poster. Stein also superimposed Obama's image on a poster for "The Incredibles" movie that he changed to "The Horribles," the prosecutor said.

Torresala also said anti-Obama comments by Stein that were posted on a Facebook page used by Marine meteorologists were prejudicial to good order and discipline, and could have influenced junior Marines.

Stein's security clearance was taken away and he has no future in the Marine Corps because he can't do his job without that clearance, Torresala said.

"The Marine Corps community views the command's lack of action as some kind of knock on good order and discipline," Torresala said. "Our own people are questioning why this Marine is not being held accountable."

Baehr said during the hearing that prosecutors were trying to dredge up any damaging information they could against Stein.

"There is no basis in this case," Baehr said. "Sgt. Stein has broken no law."

Baehr expressed after the hearing that he hoped that the recommendation would be rejected by the general, saying the case will go forward. "The issues are too important for this to end today," he said.

The military has had a policy since the Civil War limiting the free speech of service members, including criticism of the commander in chief.

Pentagon directives say military personnel in uniform cannot sponsor a political club; participate in any TV or radio program or group discussion that advocates for or against a political party, candidate or cause; or speak at any event promoting a political movement.

Commissioned officers also may not use contemptuous words against senior officials.

Backed by a team of lawyers and congressmen, Stein has said he is fighting for his constitutional rights and should be allowed to stay in the military. His lawyers and the American Civil Liberties Union contend his views are protected by the First Amendment.

"Think about how dangerous this could be if the U.S. government can prosecute you for something you say on your private Facebook page," Baehr said.

Stein has said his opinions are his own and has put a disclaimer on his Facebook page saying so. His attorneys argued service members have a right to voice their opinions as long as they do not appear to be presenting their views as being endorsed by the military. They say the Pentagon policy is vague and military officials do not understand it.

The Marine Corps has said it decided to take administrative action after Stein declared on Facebook that he would not follow orders from Obama and later clarified that statement saying he would not follow unlawful orders.

Stein could face other-than-honorable discharge while seeing his rank reduced to lance corporal and losing his benefits. The nine-year veteran was set to finish his service in four months.

He said he was removed from his job at the Marine Corps Recruiting Depot in San Diego last month and given a desk job with no access to computers.

Rep. Duncan Hunter, R-Calif., a former Marine, wrote a letter to Stein's commanding officer stating the sergeant should not face dismissal for an opinion shared by a majority of Marines. Hunter said he was referring to Stein's statement that he would not obey unlawful orders. Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., also expressed support for Stein.

Stein said his statement about Obama was part of an online debate about NATO allowing U.S. troops to be tried for the Quran burnings in Afghanistan.

In that context, he said, he was stating that he would not follow orders from the president if it involved detaining U.S. citizens, disarming them or doing anything else that he believes would violate their constitutional rights.

'nuff said.

[Danno 1,228]

Wow, agreeing with Danno again! You are right, insubordination is a very serious offense in the military. There is no way that a military can function if there is not proper respect demonstrated for your commanders. Every military member is aware of this. If you want to exercise all the freedoms you are tasked with protecting you must get out of the military first! This should be a non-issue with right-wingers and would be if they had any first-hand knowledge of military theory and service!

I see my tireless efforts are finally yielding fruit.

DANNO- Saving this country one Leftist at a time.

[Darnell 8,478]

i agree with this.

Me Too !

As much as I am not a fan of Obama - the UCMJ clearly states that Marine's conduct is not tolerated and is punishable. That Marine's attitude had to be checked to prevent a break down of order and discipline within his unit and among his subordinates.

It's very clear.

So we was in the recruiting office, prior? I wonder if he posted this stuff during 'on duty time' from the recruiting office computers. IMO, that'd be the double kiss of death.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Hey Obama is the Commander in Chief, you can't in such a public way dis your first Sergeant, your CO nor the President.

You want the freedom to do that...... leave the Service.

We don't time disciplinary action to coincide with peoples enlistment contract.

+1

Whether he agrees with the president or not, the president is still the president and that soldiers commander in chief. I have no pity for this guy being an idiot.

[luckytxn 2,263]

i did that for 20 years, remember?

Yes I know you did. I also was in the Army and know we lost most of our rights. I also hate this is happening to this Marine.