Work Ethics - US vs. Asia "Give-Back Time"

[thongd4me 69]

After my wife's long career as a teacher came to an end,

she was in some way relieved to be working in the US

where you get paid for hours worked, instead of constantly

being at the beck and call of the school director for unpaid

extra work or meetings that were often called on vacation days.

She now has two part time jobs and one of them is in ladies' retail.

The store is doing a booming business, but the staff often stand by

as customers re-arrange everything and throw many items on the

floor instead of putting them in an appropriate place to be collected

and re-stocked. Naturally the staff have to work hard after closing to

make things neat again. Last week she worked an extra hour as I

patiently waited for her outside. This week on the same day she

worked an extra hour (I knew enough to come an hour later this

time to pick her up) but I was shocked to learn that she said

this was an unpaid extra hour!

She only gets a little more than minimum wage and she said

their excuse was that they have "no money." This sounded to me

like the biggest BS I have ever heard but she told me to drop it

because she was new in the store and they could fire her if she

complained. She seemed to think the other workers did the same

(give-back work) but there is no rule that says they have to be telling the truth.

All I see is that one week they got a freebie of an extra hour from

her and the following week they were successful at institutionalizing

this scam. I try to tell her that the US is not Thaland and here people

on a time clock should get paid for all the hours they are required to work.

Should I shut my trap or what? Is she projecting her Thailand work ethics

to her job in the US to her disadvantage? Have any of you out there had

similar experiences?

Thanks for any comments.

[Dan J 277]

Its sounds to me like the company is illegally taking advantage of the situation. If they have extra work they can't pay anyone for it, then its up to the owners to do it.

[Darnell 8,478]

does she make any sales commission, on top of the minimum wage?

[motoflatdrag 0]

Sounds like Walmart. They have a well founded reputation for doing this.

[thongd4me 69]

does she make any sales commission, on top of the minimum wage?

I said "she gets a little more than minimum."

Absolutely no sales commission but her hourly wage is $10.

I think considering she is working 2 jobs that may

total around 50 hours a week this is a dangerous

prescedent to get into, while coming from Asia

she sees this as par for the course and I beg to differ.

Another member talking about WalMart does give

credence to this being a common thing in retail.

Common maybe, but to be avoided if possible.

[john & jean 37]

federal labor laws are being violated

[thongd4me 69]

It's not exactly in the realm of "unpaid overtime" because she works

total hours that never approach a full time schedule.

However, it is unpaid work and she was excusing them claiming

that other employees give 2 or 3 unpaid extra hours in a given workday.

That to me is baffling, especially knowing the folks she works with.

She was very team-spirited in her former job (in fact a team leader)

so she says she is doing it for "the team." She does communicate the feeling

that there is a threat that she could lose her job if she does not comply.

I really can't intervene contrary to her wishes but as a husband I want to help.

[john & jean 37]

the "however, it is unpaid" is what makes it against the law. PM me the particulars, I WILL REPORT THEM!!!!

[trillium13 84]

Working for free was abolished in the US around 1865, no?

But seriously, that's against the law. I'm sure they are breaking other labor laws as well. Look up your state's department of labor. I'm sure they could be reported anonymously. Is this a large or small company?

[thongd4me 69]

Working for free was abolished in the US around 1865, no?

But seriously, that's against the law. I'm sure they are breaking other labor laws as well. Look up your state's department of labor. I'm sure they could be reported anonymously. Is this a large or small company?

It's a fairly large company, with outlets in other states like Florida as well.

They do have a history of violations in this area for which they were taken to court.

You can be sure I'll be reading up on this every chance I get.

The minute I heard about this I was very incensed, yet it's only happened

for one or two hours each in two successive weeks; I will be able to

monitor that if it continues over time but I can't report it without her permission

because she really thinks she can advance in this company and was

very much against my suggestion that she should refuse to continue to

do any more unpaid hours. I'm trying to strike a balance between cultures

here but my gut feeling was to see the obvious injustice and take action.

In the two part time jobs combined she is working more than full time,

which is why I was so pissed - what she's giving them really amounts

to unpaid overtime but as you say it's just unpaid work which is illegal.

Edited October 9, 2010 by thongd4me

[Teacher Mark 53]

http://www.indypendent.org/2009/07/08/scoop-nyc-workers/

http://www.retailactionproject.org/pagedetail.php?id=3

[thongd4me 69]

http://www.indypende...op-nyc-workers/

http://www.retailact...detail.php?id=3

Very interesting, I will read further on this.

It's an uphill battle, she doesn't want me to

interfere but I want to do the homework related

to this issue. Everything is sweetness and light

now because she is complying with everything they

ask of her and also what was suggested (an hour

here & there with no pay).

I am keeping a spreadsheet log of the hours she

gets paid for and those she doesn't. I think she has

a shot at becoming management within a few months

but that's basically my uneducated opinion. This company

is also known for having it's managers do unpaid hours.

She says there are too many managers and they often

get in each other's way in their individual and group

incompetence. She said they never have meetings

which she knows is essential for good management.

In Thailand she was often a team leader in her school

and I saw first hand that she has great skills in this area.

[thongd4me 69]

I now have the addresses & telephone numbers of the 2 closest Department of Labor offices,

specifically their Wage & Hour Division.

Any others finding themselves in similar circumstances may want to contact them at their local offices,

or call the toll-free national number provided 1(866) 487-9243.

I'm holding off on that for now, but I know how to contact them.

My wife was scheduled to work until 7 Sunday night and worked until 9 (2 hours off the clock).

My patience is running thin.

[VanessaTony 3,567]

My issue is ... my mum.

My mother has been told SO many times to stop doing this sort of thing but she enjoys feeling "needed". We express to her that she's being taken advantage of but she is okay with it, she thinks it put her in their good graces more and gives her more freedom to change shifts etc because they know she's a "team player".

Basically what I'm saying is, are you sure your wife isn't the one staying longer for the same reasons? Maybe she really enjoys it. Maybe her bosses aren't really telling her to stay back at all but she's offering and let's be honest, if she KNOWS she's not gunna get paid then them accepting the offer works well for them.

See if you can suss out whether she offers to stay longer. Perhaps you could come and visit her at work if she's running a bit late and tell her you've come to take her to dinner or something. Or perhaps you could find out how many people are staying late and if there are enough people, perhaps an anonymous letter? like "it is illegal for you to keep us back to work. We will report you if it continues" or something like that. No offence to your wife but I assume her written english isn't good enough that they'll think to blame her.

perhaps you could put your husbandly foot down and insist she's home at a decent hour?

I completely understand your anger though. Upset that someone who only means the best is being taken advantage of, they should be ashamed.

[thongd4me 69]

My issue is ... my mum.

My mother has been told SO many times to stop doing this sort of thing but she enjoys feeling "needed". We express to her that she's being taken advantage of but she is okay with it, she thinks it put her in their good graces more and gives her more freedom to change shifts etc because they know she's a "team player".

Basically what I'm saying is, are you sure your wife isn't the one staying longer for the same reasons? Maybe she really enjoys it. Maybe her bosses aren't really telling her to stay back at all but she's offering and let's be honest, if she KNOWS she's not gunna get paid then them accepting the offer works well for them.

See if you can suss out whether she offers to stay longer. Perhaps you could come and visit her at work if she's running a bit late and tell her you've come to take her to dinner or something. Or perhaps you could find out how many people are staying late and if there are enough people, perhaps an anonymous letter? like "it is illegal for you to keep us back to work. We will report you if it continues" or something like that. No offence to your wife but I assume her written english isn't good enough that they'll think to blame her.

perhaps you could put your husbandly foot down and insist she's home at a decent hour?

I completely understand your anger though. Upset that someone who only means the best is being taken advantage of, they should be ashamed.

A very perceptive reply

My wife is doing this for many of the same reasons as your mom; she has not been threatened with

being canned but is doing this due to peer pressure and the fact that the managers like her; I believe

she volunteered for it but she said herself that she was INDEED afraid that she could lose her job if she didn't.

I couldn't pry her away from work with a promise of a restaurant dinner because I would have to do that

EVERY time she overstays her punch-out time. I've tried to put my foot down and she says if it's affecting

me that much she would quit - I 'don't think she would do that however.

What also bothers me is the corroboration of what I have seen with my own eyes - that the place is very very

messy and the management is very poor and the place is in chaos and they try to make up for these

shortcomings by shorting the staff. If they had enough people working during regular hours they wouldn't

have to look for "suckers" to give up late-night hours to put the place back in order for the next day.

Their talk of "we don't have money" is ridiculous because this is one of the most "in" shops for

young girls and there are long long lines at the registers every time I've been there. Their exploitation

doesn't start or end with sales Associates but goes back to the ones who MAKE the clothes (sweatshops)

and up to various echelons of management itself.

I sent you an IM containing some of what I found about them online.

I am very close to making an anonymous report but not to the company

(they already know what they are doing and would ignore anything like that)

but to the Department of Labor.

Thanks again.

(when I re-read "MUM" I'm guessing that I may be talking to Vanessa?) - I forgot to

check which one of you actually does the posting.... LOL

I saw the Heath Ledger film on Ned Kelly this weekend - very strong performance as always. Really miss the guy.

Edited October 11, 2010 by thongd4me