Let's really do something

[Peikko 1,575]

They do understand it, but The (dumb) People do not. And since enforcing immigration law is not generally accepted, it may cost politicians who touch it votes. That's why they stay away from it.

Hey . . .can I hijack this thread and quickly ask for some personal advice? (I've never done this before.)

Our 20-1/2 year old daughter has a boyfriend for a few months now. He's a hard working, self-supporting, intelligent, considerate guy who treats her with respect. My wife suggested that we invite the two to go out with us to dinner, to get to know him a bit better. We had planed to go to B.F. Chang, my favorite Chinese restaurant tonight. Yesterday our daughter tells us that this restaurant would not work as its corporate offices are in Arizona and they are boycotting Arizona. #######?

I really would like to stand my ground as I love B.F. Chang and do not see any merit in not going to a Chinese restaurant in California, and I'm paying for all of it anyway. Might come to a huge fight with my wife though and I may have to sleep on the couch. What's YOUR opinion?

Is it worth making a political stand over what is meant to be a fun night out with your wife, daughter and daughter's boy friend? The daughter could well feel you are actually trying to prove that your views are more important than hers or worse, that if her views come from her boyfriend, yours trump his. Regardless, I wouldn't try to make a political point over enjoying family time.

[Pooky 3,348]

Is it worth making a political stand over what is meant to be a fun night out with your wife, daughter and daughter's boy friend? The daughter could well feel you are actually trying to prove that your views are more important than hers or worse, that if her views come from her boyfriend, yours trump his. Regardless, I wouldn't try to make a political point over enjoying family time.

It is possible to make their Mongolian Beef at home. Yum.

Leave the politics out of family time. Find an alternative and enjoy your dinner.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Perfectly correct, Gary. The disease (availability of jobs and income to illegal immigrants) needs to be treated not the symptoms (illegal immigrants). I've been saying that all along. No need to chase the latter down. Turn off the source of income and they'll leave all on their own.

[rika60607 215]

Go to your favorite restaurant with your wife another day.

Go to a restaurant that all four of you find acceptable for the meeting.

Otherwise you would piss off three people and would be off to a bad start with the boyfriend

I really would like to stand my ground as I love B.F. Chang and do not see any merit in not going to a Chinese restaurant in California, and I'm paying for all of it anyway. Might come to a huge fight with my wife though and I may have to sleep on the couch. What's YOUR opinion?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

So why does no-one in Washington, left or right, understand this?

Duh!!! They DO. They do not WANT to end illegal immigration. Democrats want to find a way to get them to vote for them and be on welfare and be dependent on them (amnesty, path to citizenship) and Republicans want cheap labor for business to avoid all the labor laws Democrats pass. The Democrats will gladly allow illegal immigrants to be abuse and exploited and look the other way onlabor laws, if it somehow gets them more votes. Republicans will look the other way on labor law reforms if they know they have an unregulated underclass business can use.

Illegal immigrants are a political football. Punt.

IF we could get the talking heads to pressure our legislaotrs on this, in public, it would change things. But all of them are in the political camp of one party or the other and won't do it.

When Obama blathers about Arizona's ill conceived law (it is, but that's not the point) Someone should ask "But we want ALL workers to earn minimum wage, don't YOU Mr. President?"

When nancy Pelosi blathers about Sanctuary cities, some one needs to ask "We want ALL women to be safe from sexual harrassment, don't YOU Ms. Pelosi?"

when they banter about the budget crisis, why doesnt someone ask "What about a tax on business that avoids our laws by hiring illegal aliens, shouldn't they be taxed for their greed and their ignoring our laws?"

If the heat was turned on them by ANYone, it would be great.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

Unfortunately, I think that sooner of later there will be some type of immigration reform with the vast majority of illegals getting a free pass. Regardless of the political motives or lack thereof, I doubt that the gov is going to use the resources necessary to combat the problem. The border fence/wall hasn't worked and it won't work. Look at world history for the past few thousand years and see what walls have done. There is only one place I can think of off the top of my head where a border barrier is damn near fool proof and it's nowhere near three thousand miles long. It's only about 160 miles long and is the most heavily militarized border in the world.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Unfortunately, I think that sooner of later there will be some type of immigration reform with the vast majority of illegals getting a free pass. Regardless of the political motives or lack thereof, I doubt that the gov is going to use the resources necessary to combat the problem. The border fence/wall hasn't worked and it won't work. Look at world history for the past few thousand years and see what walls have done. There is only one place I can think of off the top of my head where a border barrier is damn near fool proof and it's nowhere near three thousand miles long. It's only about 160 miles long and is the most heavily militarized border in the world.

Of course there wi;; be a political solution. Here is what it will be and why and what will happen.

Amnesty, one way or another for all the illegals here since...(fill in date)

what will happen?

All the current illegal workers will become unemployed and millions more new illegals will come to take their place, the new legal immigrants will be on the public dle and vote for Democrats when they get citizenship. The new illegals will work for Republican businesses and Democrat politicians as nannies.

The newly "legal" immigrants will now be able to demand minimum wage, insurance, SS, medicare, workman's comp and all that good stuff. They will no longer cost $3 per hour. They will now cost the same as American citizens and no one will hire them when they can hire American citizens OR new illegals that work for $3 per hour.

The sad fact is that the ONLY reason the illegals are here is to make money and the ONLY reason anyone hires them is that they are cheap. If they are no longer cheap, no one wants them for work. Let's face it, they aren;t doing rocket science and they are not hired because they are the best rocket scientists $3 per hour can buy. If you knock them off their price point, they will cease to be a viable commodity (they ARE a commodity to politicians and employers, nothing more) Like raisng the price of Hyundai cars to the same level as a BMW...yeah, that will increase Hyundai profits!

But politicians on both sides of the border make tons of political capital with this issue and they want to keep it going. everyone plays their part so we can continue to exploit the workers for our own greedy benefit. Pat yourselves on the back. For a cheap head of lettuce, we sell millions of people into what amounts to slavery/ We always have, we always will. We have tried for 4 centuries to eradicate slavery and as long as business and politicians benefit from fit, it will NOT go away. The underclass has shifted from one race to another, one set of terrible conditions to another, but it remains. A permanent undrclass immune from our labor laws, working in 19th century conditions, even working their children against the labor laws. and everyone looks the other way and blathers about racism. Hypocrites all.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

I agree that the place to start is right here, cracking down on American business owners who knowingly violate the law. Why is there no E-verify? A simple start that would go a long way to turning the tide. Same thing for drivers licenses, car insurance etc. No job, no car, no work = go home. And you're right about the amnesty. We will add millions to the welfare roster.

I think it's too much of a project to round up 15 million people and deport them, never mind the price tag. Take away the ability to work, problem solved. No walls or fences. It't the American side of the problem that's the true crime.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I agree that the place to start is right here, cracking down on American business owners who knowingly violate the law. Why is there no E-verify?

American business owns Congress. That's why nothing along these lines will happen.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

It is a fairly good idea, unfortunately already theoretically in place. So why doesn't it work?

[spookyturtle 9,465]

It is a fairly good idea, unfortunately already theoretically in place. So why doesn't it work?

E-verify should be mandatory and it's not.

[TBoneTX 43,058]

They do not WANT to end illegal immigration. Democrats want to find a way to get them to vote for them and be on welfare and be dependent on them (amnesty, path to citizenship) and Republicans want cheap labor for business to avoid all the labor laws Democrats pass. The Democrats will gladly allow illegal immigrants to be abuse and exploited and look the other way onlabor laws, if it somehow gets them more votes. Republicans will look the other way on labor law reforms if they know they have an unregulated underclass business can use.

Illegal immigrants are a political football. Punt.

Good thread, & Gary has nailed it right here, si man. For expansion on these views, lookit what (calm down, now) Rush Limbaugh has been saying about this all week -- http://www.rushlimbaugh.com -- and it'll give us even more talking points when we find ourselves debating the Arizona law and the general issue of (il)legality with those who would state opposing viewpoints. Rush nails BOTH parties, si man.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

It is a fairly good idea, unfortunately already theoretically in place. So why doesn't it work?

It IS in place. That is the beauty of it, no new laws needed. But we need to increase the penalties so that there is no longer an economic incentive to hire illegals. The laws in place (OSHA, unemployment, minimum wage, SS, medicare, tax witholding) actually FUEL the problem by increasing the cost of employing LEGAL immigrants and citizens (liberals think business can absorb endless fees and taxes to pay for goodies).

All these fees and taxes make the employment of illegals more attractive and more cost effective for business. The penalties, when they are rarely imposed, leave the business WAY money ahead in the deal. It is simply way too profitable and way to risk free to employ illegals. And with all the liberals trying tpo rpotect their future voting base, it makes it even more risk free for business to profit by avoiding all the laws we pass to protect workers. when business more equally enforces the laws, employers will no longer feel it a competitive necessity to employ illegals to lower costs and compete with outhers that are not paying the costs associated with employing legal workers. YES, prices will increase on many items, what did you think?

The only way to eliminate illegal immigration is to eliminate the economic incentive to hire them. When the penalty outweighs the benfit, no one will hire them. When no one will hire them, there will be no reason to come (also enforce verification of legal presence for welfare benefits, education, etc.)

Problem solved

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Good thread, & Gary has nailed it right here, si man. For expansion on these views, lookit what (calm down, now) Rush Limbaugh has been saying about this all week -- http://www.rushlimbaugh.com -- and it'll give us even more talking points when we find ourselves debating the Arizona law and the general issue of (il)legality with those who would state opposing viewpoints. Rush nails BOTH parties, si man.

haven't heard Rush put forth what I was saying, but yes he does go after both political parties, and has many valid points. I see Rush as one of those wanting illegals to provide a low cost alternative to expensive wage and labor laws. Rush is basically against minimum wage (so am I, actually, but if you are going to have it, let's have it for everyone and not just white people)

I think we just need to go after what is purely an economic problem with a purely economic answer and then see what happens. I think all else becomes moot after that.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

E-verify isn't mandatory, is it?