Belgium moves to become first European country to ban the burka

[Dan T 8]

I don't have any problem for many to cover themselves but it should be a crime if eye candy is covered.

trouble is that i think the reason for the covering in the first place is because husbands dont want other guys checking out thier eye candy. i paid good money for the pleasure of this woman to parade around my house why should i share her beauty with anyone.

[Nagishkaw 510]

Gotta love women's lib.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

It is clear, because the cultural norm in the United States is one of freedom. How many people that wear the Burka, wear it with pride? I submit that it is a forced issue, which has been proven over and over again.

Seriously, who would voluntarily wear a 99% body covering, if given a choice? Nobody.

And it's still not your call to make. Say you'd actually get to ban the burka. You would then have stripped those women that choose to wear them of their freedom to do so and those that are forced to wear them wouldn't suddenly pop up on the streets in regular clothing either. Chances are they'd then be forced to remain in their home. So you'd inadvertently strip them of the freedom to move about. And the burka in their heads is still there all the same. What an accomplishment.

[Dan T 8]

And it's still not your call to make. Say you'd actually get to ban the burka. You would then have stripped those women that choose to wear them of their freedom to do so and those that are forced to wear them wouldn't suddenly pop up on the streets in regular clothing either. Chances are they'd then be forced to remain in their home. So you'd inadvertently strip them of the freedom to move about. And the burka in their heads is still there all the same. What an accomplishment.

well its really the husbands doing the oppressing here. if you wanted to be effective at ending the practice youd have to go after the men. perhaps when husbands really started locking the women indoors they could start going after them as kidnappers.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

well its really the husbands doing the oppressing here. if you wanted to be effective at ending the practice youd have to go after the men. perhaps when husbands really started locking the women indoors they could start going after them as kidnappers.

But to go after the men you'd have to have the oppressed party take action against the oppressing party. What are the odds of that happening? Looking at the large number of free women that are abused regularly in this country by their husbands and never go to the police to press charges gives you a hint. These women won't press charges against their husbands.

Edited April 2, 2010 by Mr. Big Dog

[Dan T 8]

But to go after the men you'd have to have the oppressed party take action against the oppressing party. What are the odds of that happening? Looking at the large number of free women that are abused regularly in this country by their husbands and never go to the police to press charges gives you a hint. These women won't press charges against their husbands.

and id encourage a similar but stronger support for these women by the rest of the population. i think it is morally negligent of a free people to comdemn and abandon the broken-willed oppressed to their oppressors. whether it is sucessful or not i think there is an obligation to help these women despite them not helping themselves. would i start a fight? no but id sure support one.

[justashooter 430]

You can be Muslim and not dress like a freak. Banning the burkha is a good move. If you want to separate yourself from the society you've chosen to live in, the society you've chosen to live in has no obligation to be civil to you.

i rarely suggest that America emulate european political actions, but in this case i believe we should do so.

[Dan T 8]

i rarely suggest that America emulate european political actions, but in this case i believe we should do so.

big agreement here with both sentiments

[Danno 1,228]

and id encourage a similar but stronger support for these women by the rest of the population. i think it is morally negligent of a free people to comdemn and abandon the broken-willed oppressed to their oppressors. whether it is sucessful or not i think there is an obligation to help these women despite them not helping themselves. would i start a fight? no but id sure support one.

You obviously know more of these "burka wearing" people than I do.

The closest I have come is seeing them at wal-mart so I will refrain from speaking as if I actually "know" that all these people are actually slaves and hate their religious garb.

Sure I have heard the template... that these people are abused and in fact victims but it would be more interesting (and perhaps useful) if those who "know the culture" would share about them.

So please if you personally know the culture well enough to comment.....tell us how much of it is willing compliance to a religious command/custom and how much is insecure husbands hiding their wife from the world )with no concern for religion).

[Dan T 8]

You obviously know more of these "burka wearing" people than I do.

The closest I have come is seeing them at wal-mart so I will refrain from speaking as if I actually "know" that all these people are actually slaves and hate their religious garb.

Sure I have heard the template... that these people are abused and in fact victims but it would be more interesting (and perhaps useful) if those who "know the culture" would share about them.

So please if you personally know the culture well enough to comment.....tell us how much of it is willing compliance to a religious command/custom and how much is insecure husbands hiding their wife from the world )with no concern for religion).

id submit that unless you fled this culture yourself as one of the oppressed i think its impossible to really know the truth, however, I dont think the answer to this is really relevant. what is relevant is willingness to assimilate or a lack thereof. if the women, after being given a choice choose to go back than let them, to me thats not a reason not to fight on their behalf whether they openly ask for help or not

Edited April 2, 2010 by Dan T

[christeen 966]

In the same manner that I would not go to live in a MENA country and parade around wearing shorts and tank tops and should I choose to move to a MENA country, I would try to assimilate to the norm there... Most families moving to Europe and USA know that these are not cultures that wear full Burka's and headcoverings and should adhere to the cultural norm here.

If you relocate to a different country/culture you have the responsibility to adhere to those social norms. I would not expect them to parade around in mini-skirts, however, by wearing full facial coverings they further isolate themselves from the country that they wish to live in. If they do not want to live by these standards, they should not live in that location and remain where their beliefs and appearance is accepted.

Additionally, now there are many safety and security concerns that this attire affects. Such as wearing a burka for a drivers licence photo... How can you be identified and how can you drive with your full face covered?

[Peikko 1,575]

Typical. Belgium have not 'banned the burka' they have prohibited the wearing of any clothing, mask or covering that covers the face entirely, or almost entirely, in public places for what they term security reason. People who want to cover their faces entirely must do so in private. That does not stop them from being able to wear perfectly modest clothing in public, including wearing a covering over the hair if so desired. Personally, I do not see it as being a big deal. Of course some people just want to be able to have the opportunity to do absolutely everything, even if it's pointless just so they can say 'personal choice'

Edited April 2, 2010 by Madame Cleo

[almaty 19]

of course sister cleo, but the right wing chopf##ks take everything to an extreme ..and their view of freedom of religion is based on their limited view...vj sheesh...

[scandal 951]

of course sister cleo, but the right wing chopf##ks take everything to an extreme ..and their view of freedom of religion is based on their limited view...vj sheesh...

Good to see you back, brother. Hope you can stick around.

[Danno 1,228]

Typical. Belgium have not 'banned the burka' they have prohibited the wearing of any clothing, mask or covering that covers the face entirely, or almost entirely, in public places for what they term security reason. People who want to cover their faces entirely must do so in private. That does not stop them from being able to wear perfectly modest clothing in public, including wearing a covering over the hair if so desired. Personally, I do not see it as being a big deal. Of course some people just want to be able to have the opportunity to do absolutely everything, even if it's pointless just so they can say 'personal choice'

Ahh MC, you are correct in detail but clearly you avoid the obvious reality.

This law may not name "burka" but is there anyone who denies thats exactly what it was written for?

To say people are free to wear a Burka at home is silly as the intent (as I know it) is for public use not at home.

Seems we had similar laws passed years ago which amounted to the same thing but they were aimed at the Klan, no one doubted who this law spoke too... though I doubt the word "Klan" was mentioned in them.

To you and I it is meaningless but if extreme modesty were a part of a persons faith, we can be sure it would be very meaningful to them.

I think in fairness immigrating people should have been warned that THEY are welcome to come but some of their customs of dress are not.

HAd someone immigrated to BG say ten years ago and had established their life, now they must either abandon their life in that country and leave or compromise some meaningful part of their faith.