This is too much to even believe

[Littleone+Robert 0]

Hi Vicki,

I read all replies and I think there are so much great idea of VJ members.

I hope one of them could help you to get the great idea to solve the problem.

I am looking forward to hearing good news from you soon.

I & Robert feel sympathetic to both of you.

Best of Luck to you and Wish you all the Best

Littleone & Robert

[BelwinMills 0]

wow that is horriable. I hope u can call your congressman and get this all worked out. Hopefully this can get resolved. That is utterly amazing to be treated that way. Best wishes as you work through this tangled web

[ssalburo 0]

I'm sorry to hear that, hope they'll realize how hard it is to be in this process...don't lose hope.

[Jaci 0]

Vicki

Was Bala given ANYTHING at the interview? (denial, refusal, 221g?)

An attorney with proper experience can contact the embassy for you, possibly even the CO who's on your case, and try and smooth things out or at least get further info. You can try and do this yourself too. IT's a matter of simply refusing to stop calling until they are so sick of you they put you through.(That's how I was able to get through.. I called about 30 times and asked to speak with the consul general by name.. eventually they put me through to the CO who refused to issue the visa) I warn you that to resolve the matter yourself you must stay calm and not lose your temper or be hysterical. (I wasn't able to do that, and we are still separated) Other ideas are to try and contact your consul general by fax. I would personally like to Consul general to know if I had caught the CO lying about me. I'd be shocked if the comment about the Asian man answering your phone was anything more than complete fabrication.

I'd just like you to know that in my experience it's not so unusual for CO's to tell applicants over and over they are going to be denied but eventually issue the visa. If they are still interviewing/investigating you, then you may still get it.

I doubt CO's are technically allowed to do what you are describing, but as a practical matter they have free reign. Mine stopped short of actually outright lying to me about my husband, but definitely led me to believe there is something really terrible about him that I don't know. I suspect it is routine for them to lie, instigate, and use a variety of psychological torture tactics ( the least of which is telling you over and over you are going to be denied) to try and ferret out fraud in some cases, in some countries. I don't think any of it is particularly effective in reality, but it certainly is painful to go through. That said, not all CO's are like that.

My consulting atty told me that sometimes CO's, for whatever reason, are "overzealous" about fraud. It's been my experience older (than their partners) USC females and their foreign fiances/spouses are prime (but certainly not the only) targets. It's not fair but it's the way it is.

Our CO told us she wanted to deny us outright but instead was returning our petition. I assume that it is possible to outright deny a case with evidence of fraud, but there would have to be some kind of evidence beyond a red flag or conjecture, or it would have happened to us. I agree with Meauxna that if they haven't outright denied you they don't have any evidence of anything.

They don't have to outright deny you to refuse to issue a visa, though, so evidence of fraud doesn't seem to be necessary to keep a fiance(e) or spouse from entering the US.

As long as your petition is still at the consulate there is still a chance you might receive the visa "soon", or at least sooner than later. You need to know whether your petition was returned stateside or not. There is a nasty trap set by the FAM for those with returned petitions that you will definitely want to avoid.

Maybe Gary is right about the bribe, but I hate to think so. I've wondered myself about whether that might have been what was missing in our case.

here are 2 must read articles for you and/or your attorney.

http://www.ilw.com/articles/2004,0429-ellis.shtm

http://www.ilw.com/articles/2006,0323-ellis.shtm

Find out where your petition is if you can. If it's being returned, prepare now to respond. If you can't get anywhere by yourself or with an attorney, write your congressional representative and let them initiate a congressional inquiry for you. The congressman can't fix it, but they can get you some info.

God bless you.

Jaci

[diadromous mermaid 36]

I'd just like to add that it's perfectly understandable that your fiancé would be stunned with the fact that it wasn't approved, that just possibly his recollection of the line of discourse *might* be emotionally charged. I'm not suggesting that he is not telling the truth about the manner in which he was treated by the CO, but when one is shocked, sometimes the memory can get a little foggy and other feelings may become imbued in relating the events.

While others have mentioned that COs can employ various techniques to get to the bottom of a matter, I'd seriously doubt that blackmail and lying are within their legal realm, however, the alien applicant has the onus to overcome any obstacle or impression that the visa is not warranted. Having a relationship that does not follow the norm, raises the bar. Rather than respond in furor, it would be wise to analyse the factors that could contribute to that impression by the CO and see which ones you can address. Simply put, there is an age difference; a divorce; a distinction in religious background, all of which can not be changed, but the matter relating to the family's acceptance of this atypical romance can be addressed, even if it means facing some resistance and objection by the remaining family members. It *could* very well be that Bala's knowledge that the family would not approve of the relationship, were they to be aware, was telegraphed in his demeanour with the CO. I'm not saying that was the case, but it is possible and COs are trained to take all sorts of queues to a line of questioning.

Although I don't always agree with desert fox in his delivery, he is good practice for dealing with the occasional matter-of-fact consular officer. The issue here is that Bala did not overcome the presumption that the relationship is valid. The question becomes what more can you do to overcome that? I would suggest a meeting with the family, to gain their approval, first off.

[Mandi+Ryan 0]

OMG! That's #######. Unfortunately, I have no advice either, but I'm sorry this has happened to you. You have a good man there. That itself PROVES he loves you. Don't give up. Keep Praying!

[vicki/bala 0]

Vicki

Was Bala given ANYTHING at the interview? (denial, refusal, 221g?)

An attorney with proper experience can contact the embassy for you, possibly even the CO who's on your case, and try and smooth things out or at least get further info. You can try and do this yourself too. IT's a matter of simply refusing to stop calling until they are so sick of you they put you through.(That's how I was able to get through.. I called about 30 times and asked to speak with the consul general by name.. eventually they put me through to the CO who refused to issue the visa) I warn you that to resolve the matter yourself you must stay calm and not lose your temper or be hysterical. (I wasn't able to do that, and we are still separated) Other ideas are to try and contact your consul general by fax. I would personally like to Consul general to know if I had caught the CO lying about me. I'd be shocked if the comment about the Asian man answering your phone was anything more than complete fabrication.

I'd just like you to know that in my experience it's not so unusual for CO's to tell applicants over and over they are going to be denied but eventually issue the visa. If they are still interviewing/investigating you, then you may still get it.

I doubt CO's are technically allowed to do what you are describing, but as a practical matter they have free reign. Mine stopped short of actually outright lying to me about my husband, but definitely led me to believe there is something really terrible about him that I don't know. I suspect it is routine for them to lie, instigate, and use a variety of psychological torture tactics ( the least of which is telling you over and over you are going to be denied) to try and ferret out fraud in some cases, in some countries. I don't think any of it is particularly effective in reality, but it certainly is painful to go through. That said, not all CO's are like that.

My consulting atty told me that sometimes CO's, for whatever reason, are "overzealous" about fraud. It's been my experience older (than their partners) USC females and their foreign fiances/spouses are prime (but certainly not the only) targets. It's not fair but it's the way it is.

Our CO told us she wanted to deny us outright but instead was returning our petition. I assume that it is possible to outright deny a case with evidence of fraud, but there would have to be some kind of evidence beyond a red flag or conjecture, or it would have happened to us. I agree with Meauxna that if they haven't outright denied you they don't have any evidence of anything.

They don't have to outright deny you to refuse to issue a visa, though, so evidence of fraud doesn't seem to be necessary to keep a fiance(e) or spouse from entering the US.

As long as your petition is still at the consulate there is still a chance you might receive the visa "soon", or at least sooner than later. You need to know whether your petition was returned stateside or not. There is a nasty trap set by the FAM for those with returned petitions that you will definitely want to avoid.

Maybe Gary is right about the bribe, but I hate to think so. I've wondered myself about whether that might have been what was missing in our case.

here are 2 must read articles for you and/or your attorney.

http://www.ilw.com/articles/2004,0429-ellis.shtm

http://www.ilw.com/articles/2006,0323-ellis.shtm

Find out where your petition is if you can. If it's being returned, prepare now to respond. If you can't get anywhere by yourself or with an attorney, write your congressional representative and let them initiate a congressional inquiry for you. The congressman can't fix it, but they can get you some info.

God bless you.

Jaci

No he was not. They basically said at last to "decide now to drop this case or we will go to your family and friends and interview them and even then we will not guarantee you the visa". So he told them to give him time to leave his home (and everything he has ) and then they could go and question all they wanted, because he was not going to give into their threats. He told them he was ready to stand anything to prove his love. But you see everyone keeps saying over and over here that Bala wasnt able to prove his case. HOw could he?? They wouldnt even look at our proofs. As ive said over and over and over again.......we had tons ,,,,,,four years worth of converstations, emails, plane tickets (two visits) train tickets, hotel receipts, phone bills, pictures, names of people we visited t here they could call and verify , my son wrote a letter,,,,,,we had stacks and stacks of proofs...only to be told when he offered them " do you think a few converstations and pictures prove a relationship".. So dont tell me that he couldnt convince them! If they refuse to see our proof how can we do that?

Im sorry if its a crime to fall in love after you have been married before, or to someone younger than you. No one told me or Bala the rules of Love, somewhere along the way we missed them.. Ive never said I was against the investigation.. we hid nothing, we were h onest in saying we hid from his family... other than that our lives have been an open book. We waited for them to investigate all they wanted, every month I sent email and I asked.. Is there anything I can give you or send to you to help prove our case.

We waited all this time, only to be confronted in the end with blatant lies and blackmail.

Jaci thank you so much for your kind words. Who should I ask to speak with at the consulate? Im still waiting to hear back from my senator, they have been so helpful to us in the last month, Im hoping they can direct us in the right way to handle this.

Vicki/Bala

[Jaci 0]

While others have mentioned that COs can employ various techniques to get to the bottom of a matter, I'd seriously doubt that blackmail and lying are within their legal realm, however, the alien applicant has the onus to overcome any obstacle or impression that the visa is not warranted. Having a relationship that does not follow the norm, raises the bar. Rather than respond in furor, it would be wise to analyse the factors that could contribute to that impression by the CO and see which ones you can address.

I agree Diaddy. The key is to remain calm. This is why it's good to have an attorney do this for you. Not being personally involved, and attorney isn't going to be insulted, furious, cry, etc.. (well, never say never )

I've never heard of a CO actually lying flat out, but I do know sometimes if a fiance had a prior marriage they will tell the applicant "your fiance is already married to someone else" , so there is the truth, and "the truth". (correct answer of course is for applicant to calmly state that the fiance had a prior marriage, but that he is now divorced/widowed) Getting upset or saying the accusation is a lie won't help.

Vicki, search on your consulate and see if you can find the name of the consul general there. Maybe someone in the regional forum for India can help you. It helps if you ask for someone by name. Please be careful though, you may well be interviewed yourself via phone, and will likely need the patience of Jobe not to blow a fuse.

[babybunny 2]

When they walked in the CO, and american, told him flat out they were not going to give her a visa. He got very angry right there and finally asked the magic question, "what can I do to change your mind?" She looked him straight in the eye and said "2 thousand dollars in US $100 bills will change my mind". He said he wanted to talk to her boss. She said "Who do you think is getting this money?" He forked over the money and a week later she had the visa.

I am sorry vicky. I dont know what to say. I feel for you

you were given some excellent advise. I pray this is all turned around soon. (((((( good vibes ))))))))) please stay strong - you will make it through this..

[Anyta Holland 0]

This sucks... I hope that you can sort it soon!

[morocco4ever 63]

vicki---this is pretty shocking (duh).

But a glimmer of hope--- maybe they are trying to rattle his cage one last time. Maybe Bala shouldn't do anything too drastic at home just yet.

Doesn't it seem that IF they really thought they had a fraud case, that the petition would be denied? That the visa application would be outright denied? Why would they continue to have this discussion with him?

Can you get on the horn and the the CO to give you some further information? As in, an official response?

I think user Jaci might have some insight for you.

I have to agree with meauxna. If they had actual evidence do you think they would waste their time playing this game? Remain calm, I do believe it is a bluff.

I have some possible contacts:

Dale Rumbarger

for

Julia Furuta-Toy

Director of Public and Diplomatic Liaison Visa Services

Washington, D.C. 20520

You can also write to:

Maura Harty

Assistant Secretary, Bureau of Consular Affairs

Washington, D.C. 20520

Or try calling:

OFFICE OF DIPLOMATIC AND PUBLIC LIAISON (VO/P)

Director Julie Furuta-Toy 202-663-3579

Public Inquiries Division Chief Karla Gentile 202-663-3623

Diplomatic Liaison Division Chief Dale Rumbarger 202-663-3211

I hope this helps, good luck.

[vicki/bala 0]

vicki---this is pretty shocking (duh).

But a glimmer of hope--- maybe they are trying to rattle his cage one last time. Maybe Bala shouldn't do anything too drastic at home just yet.

Doesn't it seem that IF they really thought they had a fraud case, that the petition would be denied? That the visa application would be outright denied? Why would they continue to have this discussion with him?

Can you get on the horn and the the CO to give you some further information? As in, an official response?

I think user Jaci might have some insight for you.

I have to agree with meauxna. If they had actual evidence do you think they would waste their time playing this game? Remain calm, I do believe it is a bluff.

I have some possible contacts:

Dale Rumbarger

for

Julia Furuta-Toy

Director of Public and Diplomatic Liaison Visa Services

Washington, D.C. 20520

You can also write to:

Maura Harty

Assistant Secretary, Bureau of Consular Affairs

Washington, D.C. 20520

Or try calling:

OFFICE OF DIPLOMATIC AND PUBLIC LIAISON (VO/P)

Director Julie Furuta-Toy 202-663-3579

Public Inquiries Division Chief Karla Gentile 202-663-3623

Diplomatic Liaison Division Chief Dale Rumbarger 202-663-3211

I hope this helps, good luck.

Thank you ,,,,,I will give these a try on Monday. Yea I agree they dont have any proof, but they are sure making our life miserable. Our biggest fear is that they will drag this out for many months and already we have been 8 months on AP... Over a year since we filed.

Vicki/Bala

[gimygirl 0]

Thank you ,,,,,I will give these a try on Monday. Yea I agree they dont have any proof, but they are sure making our life miserable. Our biggest fear is that they will drag this out for many months and already we have been 8 months on AP... Over a year since we filed.

Vicki/Bala

vicki ...

i would honestly prepare yourself for a long separation and a big fight. this is your reality ... the CO has already proved that they will stop at nothing, so i wouldn't trust that they are going to make this any easier for you and bala at this point.

hopefully you can make some headway with your phone calls on monday ... i wouldn't stop until i got some definitive answers! (make sure you get everyone's name you speak to!)

best of luck to you!!

[Karen_L 1]

WOW! This is nightmarish! BUT I think your fiance' did the right thing by not conceding even the slightest bit to the blackmail -- esp. considering that if the consulate HAD shown photos to his family he may have been kicked out of his home/business. That was brave of him, I think!

Also, question: did the CO have a converstion with this mythical "Asian Man" that lives in your house (I guess he must live in your closet or under your bed, right? )? Or did they just call, hear a man pick up, and assume 1) that he is Asian, 2) that he lives with you, 3) that they didn't misdial the telephone number and 4) that even if it IS your house, that this guy CANNOT just be a friend?

Yikes! I would like to know what kind of conversation went on between the CO and this Asian Housemate of yours and who exactly they spoke with when the CO called. Could they be saying that you live with another man just to fake your fiance' out and see what his reaction is? Head-games like that are upsetting, but I think that considering the fact that they tried to blackmail him, there's a good chance they know that you live alone and are just testing Bala.

It's funny because you told the truth! I feel like if someone were trying to defraud the government, the response to "do your families know about your relationship?" would have been something like "Oh yes! They know and they simply CANNOT WAIT til we get married! "

Anyway, good luck! Going to India is probably VERY impractical for you, as much as you'd probably love to go, but right now, try and contact a congressman's office and explain your situation. Also, get hold of a lawyer. Catholic charities offers free (or very inexpensive?) legal services and I hear they're good at what they do.

Again: GOOD LUCK!

[vicki/bala 0]

WOW! This is nightmarish! BUT I think your fiance' did the right thing by not conceding even the slightest bit to the blackmail -- esp. considering that if the consulate HAD shown photos to his family he may have been kicked out of his home/business. That was brave of him, I think!

Also, question: did the CO have a converstion with this mythical "Asian Man" that lives in your house (I guess he must live in your closet or under your bed, right? )? Or did they just call, hear a man pick up, and assume 1) that he is Asian, 2) that he lives with you, 3) that they didn't misdial the telephone number and 4) that even if it IS your house, that this guy CANNOT just be a friend?

Yikes! I would like to know what kind of conversation went on between the CO and this Asian Housemate of yours and who exactly they spoke with when the CO called. Could they be saying that you live with another man just to fake your fiance' out and see what his reaction is? Head-games like that are upsetting, but I think that considering the fact that they tried to blackmail him, there's a good chance they know that you live alone and are just testing Bala.

It's funny because you told the truth! I feel like if someone were trying to defraud the government, the response to "do your families know about your relationship?" would have been something like "Oh yes! They know and they simply CANNOT WAIT til we get married! "

Anyway, good luck! Going to India is probably VERY impractical for you, as much as you'd probably love to go, but right now, try and contact a congressman's office and explain your situation. Also, get hold of a lawyer. Catholic charities offers free (or very inexpensive?) legal services and I hear they're good at what they do.

Again: GOOD LUCK!

We figured out the man im living with !!! My 18 year old son came for a visit on May 29th he stayed thru June 9th. Yesterday I remembered suddenly that one morning he was yelling at me.. he said, "Mom Bala called last night in middle of the night and asked me to wake you , and I told him no and hung up", I told him yeah at times if he misses me he will call just to chat for a minute or two. I never really thought any more about it.. But today I called my son and asked him to think back on that night, I asked him if the caller said he was Bala and he said no,, I just heard indian voice and assumed it was Bala. there ya go guys....proof postitive that Im living with a man !!!! my how wonderful the human mind is at assuming !

Vicki /bala