I just HAD to say something ...

[Fuzzness 2]

no, Lisa, not at all, but then, I thought this was about telling people how to raise their kids?

Well everyone's saying 'Abuse' and 'Choking' and whatnot, and I'm of the notion that if a child is getting choked the police should be involved.

What is the point otherwise? Think about it.

For the record, I was never in fear of physical pain with my parents...I was in fear of the reprocussions of my actions...and if a child fears no reprocussions, then I would say that's a bad thing.

thank you Lisa... I agree with you

[Sister Fracas 5]

Children should definately fear their parents wrath.

I wonder how some of us manage to get through life without once having been spanked, whooped, hit, or otherwise had physical "corrective" measures enforced upon us.... it's truly amazing we aren't all horrible criminals...how DID that happen??

My mother just had to give me "the look", and when I did something wrong she spoke slower, softer and made sure she said my whole name. That's how I knew I'd done something wrong. But I never ever ever feared she would go off on me, or hit me. That wasn't her style and I'm glad of it. What I instead learned to fear was having her become disappointed in my actions. That made a much bigger impact on me. And I learned from a very young age that acting out in public was not acceptible at all. My mother and I talk about it now when we see how parents let their kids run around restaurants, holler and scream, and cause mayhem. I would have never got away with it...but imagine that, it wasn't because she beat it out of me or screamed.

I don't think anyone here can judge Gimy's actions as they weren't in the restaurant to see what went down, but I DO think it's a shame that some people feel the parent's "rights" come before the safety of a child...

Edited June 1, 2006 by Frances

[scumpi 0]

Monique,hi there,long time no ``see``!But you scare me with this B) .Seriously now,I don`t think you did that poor child a favor,that`s my opinion though.You might have done yourself a favor by speaking out loud and release your own tension about the whole thing and I am sure your intentions were the best but I am afraid I`m with the ones who said the way to solve that was uneffective,probably it got worse at home for the kid.Those kinds of parents usually blame the child the same because somebody has the nerve to tell them they are doing something wrong to their own kids.

What scares me most are people like that mother tho,who a little before you interferred thretatened her child ``to not choke again or she would smash her`` and the next moment she said ``I don`t think I said that``.Those people must have some serious issues.

[tmma 467]

well ... we went out to a local restaurant tonight for dinner. geoff, nico, gabriella and i were all chitter-chattering along about our day and what not while sipping on our drinks. next thing i know ... actually hear is some woman saying to her little girl 'in that tone' "KNOCK it off" ... she tried to say it low & mean. of course i glanced over only to see the mom getting up and going to sit down next to her little girl.

she grabbed the little girl by the arm and leaned in to again verbally reprimand her. the mother was really upset that she wasn't eating/didn't want to eat. she was telling her that she 'WAS going to eat'. by now the little children is in tears and the mother's getting more upset because she's crying and telling her to stop crying.

my children are now in shock because they know that this isn't acceptable behavior. we spoke to the children about how some people choose to parent their children. i would say though ... it was extremely difficult for me to sit and listen to this mother berate her little girl, she couldn't have been older than 6.

our food arrived and the waitress could see that i was visibly upset. the manager and waitress, as well as other patrons were staring at this lady. i absolutely can not ever tolerate child abuse ... even verbal. geoff asked if i wanted to just change our order to go and get some boxes, but i tried to keep it together and we stayed.

then this mother tries to force feed her little girl and she starts to gag ... she's yelling at her to stop it and to drink some water. the little girl can't drink the water and her mom uses that awful low & mean threatening voice to drink the water and if she chokes again she will smash her.

welp ... i lost it then. i grabbed my wallet & car keys, told geoff and the children to get our food to go and i walked over to the table. *heart beat .... heart beat ... heart beat ...*

me: excuse ma'am i can see that you are having a very frustrating time with your daughter, but i am appalled at the level of abuse you are willing to subject your little defenseless child to. if you would like i can shove some food down your mouth and then force you to drink as well while you're crying.

she actually looks at me and says: what are you talking about!?!? (and you guys KNOW how i feel about ignorance!! UGH!!)

me: i'm talking about the fear that you are using to try and control your daughter with. she's a little child and deserves love, compassion and understanding.

she continues to feign ignorance and then asks: what did i do?

me: force feeding her, threatening her not to choke again or you will smash her.

her: oh i don't think i said that

me: it's not surprising that you don't remember saying something in your fit of anger. but regardless, enjoy your dinner because you have completely upset ours.

the manager and waitress came over to me apologizing profusely but i know it's not their fault. so we paid and left.

i felt that i had maintained my composure when talking to this scumbag although i was quite teary and emotional. geoff being english would have rather that i didn't say anything but supported me all the way. the children were over the moon that i said something ... nico wanted to say a few things of his own but he was waiting in the car.

all in all i feel really good for standing up and speaking my mind ... it's who i am. but this was the first time that it was somewhere very public and with my children around. we had a family discussion about it afterwards. we explained that even though i said something ... the woman would not change and she would most likely continue to treat her daughter in that fashion.

anyway .... it was on my mind after putting my 2 lovely cherubs to bed.

*rant off*

Ok-I know I am late in on this, but as a mother-I feel I am entitled to jump on in ( and if anyone doesn't think that... I don't give a damn, I am jumping in anyway....)...

Anyway, I highlighted some portions of the original post, I have not read all the replies, so apologies if this has already been addressed.

My thoughts are this-One question, if this mother was choking her daughter with food in a public place, why didn't you DO something?

Gimy, if you TRULY and 100% believed this child was being abused ( which your narrative does paint a shocking picture), but if you TRULY believed this child was in danger of CHOKING-why did you not call the CPS......DO something-words are well and good-but actions produce change!

I could not imagine watching something I BELIEVED ( like you just said you did....) was abuse to a child and not intervening by calling the authorities or police.

Verbally reprimanding the mother, while it made YOU feel better-- probably did nothing to improve the situation for the little girl-although I am sure it saved the other diners in the restaurant from seeing the abuse, and feeling uncomfortable and having their dinners out ruined by it.

While I respect your opinion and your right to say what you think....I really think that if it had been me watching what I believed to be abuse ( as you said it was abuse-and I believe you), I would have done alot more than verbally berate the mother and then spend the night telling my kids about differing parenting styles.

...But glad you at least felt better about the abuse you witnessed. Must have been really horrid to watch. I do not agree with the way the mother was behaving, if it really was how you described; I would have been on my cell phone talking to CPS, not talking to the mother!

Oh, and on the " I have a right to tell you how to raise kids..." --Can't remember who said that---Not touching that one:)

Have a great day, all:)

Shele

Sorry for typos etc-I am in a hurry-

-GTG

Edited June 1, 2006 by tmma

[anya-D 8]

I think Gimmy is very brave to step up for what she thinks it's right.

But for me I think it's not an abuse. There might be a better way to treat that little girl but raising a voice and treaten to spank her - for me is normal.

well.. may be because i came from a house that spanging is ok.. i got spaked if i did something bad (like lying) or make my mom cry. that hurts me the most.. my mom will spanked me and cry the same time and i know when i did was really bad and i wouldnt do that again. I never feel like it's abusive to me and I love my mom for teaching me like that.

When i was an Aupair in the US i know that spanking is not acceptable here so i use the "time out" instead.. eventhough my host family gives me permission to do what ever i feel is right.

would i spank my child? yep, if i used all the other methods and didnt work, would i yell at them? not if i can avoid it.. so when i do spank or yell at my child - i know that it's not something that i alwasy would do and i wouldnt think it's abuse. but if it's in public i might be seen as abusive parent???

ps.. but may be gaging the child is just too much too..

there's fine line between parenting and abuse..

[mercuryroad 0]

Fuzzness talking here....

First of all, I *DO* have a right to tell you how to raise your kids!!!!! Doesn't mean I should most of the time, but in extreme cases I will.

Secondly, you do *NOT* have the right to abuse a person, child or adult, man or woman, whatever. Shoving food down someones throat is abuse, and keeping on doing it once they are gagging is even more abuse.

If I do see someone abusing a child, I will do something. If you don't like it, call the ###### police. we'll see who the police sides with.

And another thing, a child should *NEVER* be afraid of their parents, OR anyone in a position of power. Parents should be there to guide children in the right direction AND to protect them.

And whoever said choking someone was not a life threatening situation, think again. People have DIED from choking.

If you see abuse happening and you do nothing, you are guilty like the abuser. I know that's a cliche, but it's a good one.

sigh... and yes, i have restrained myself...

You're totally off your rocker dude. This case was not abuse. If abuse was happening, then by all means say something....if not, then shut the hell up unless you want your life and parenting style examined too.

Children should definately fear their parents wrath. That has positive implications on how you act. There's been many times where I've said to someone "I'd never do that because my mom would kick my @ss". That's true even to this day and I love her for that. That fear is what helped me make some good decisions and avoid some bad ones.

And no, you don't have the right to tell me how to raise my kids thank you. And if you did share an opinion it d@mn better well have been requested or under an extreme circustance. The fact is that you cannot know the entire story or what all is going on so you are in no position to comment.......Dixie's example - definately do and say something......this example is totally different though.

I agree with you......call the police if you really feel the child is in danger.

no I am not off my rocker

and the first amendment gives me the RIGHT to tell you how to raise your kids. If you don't like it, move to another country where that freedom is not available.

parents should nurture their child, not scare the ###### out of them.

AND.... what possible reason would monique have to lie about witnessing a child being abused? if you don't think she was lying, are you saying that shoving food down a child's throat is not abuse?

Aye chico.....the first amendment gives you the right to say something, and it also give me the right to tell you to shut the hell up and mind your own business and if you really have a problem then call the police or keep walking. That's exactly what I would have said in this situation.

[sarah and hicham 3]

Fuzzness talking here....

First of all, I *DO* have a right to tell you how to raise your kids!!!!! Doesn't mean I should most of the time, but in extreme cases I will.

Secondly, you do *NOT* have the right to abuse a person, child or adult, man or woman, whatever. Shoving food down someones throat is abuse, and keeping on doing it once they are gagging is even more abuse.

If I do see someone abusing a child, I will do something. If you don't like it, call the ###### police. we'll see who the police sides with.

And another thing, a child should *NEVER* be afraid of their parents, OR anyone in a position of power. Parents should be there to guide children in the right direction AND to protect them.

And whoever said choking someone was not a life threatening situation, think again. People have DIED from choking.

If you see abuse happening and you do nothing, you are guilty like the abuser. I know that's a cliche, but it's a good one.

sigh... and yes, i have restrained myself...

You're totally off your rocker dude. This case was not abuse. If abuse was happening, then by all means say something....if not, then shut the hell up unless you want your life and parenting style examined too.

Children should definately fear their parents wrath. That has positive implications on how you act. There's been many times where I've said to someone "I'd never do that because my mom would kick my @ss". That's true even to this day and I love her for that. That fear is what helped me make some good decisions and avoid some bad ones.

And no, you don't have the right to tell me how to raise my kids thank you. And if you did share an opinion it d@mn better well have been requested or under an extreme circustance. The fact is that you cannot know the entire story or what all is going on so you are in no position to comment.......Dixie's example - definately do and say something......this example is totally different though.

I agree with you......call the police if you really feel the child is in danger.

no I am not off my rocker

and the first amendment gives me the RIGHT to tell you how to raise your kids. If you don't like it, move to another country where that freedom is not available.

parents should nurture their child, not scare the ###### out of them.

AND.... what possible reason would monique have to lie about witnessing a child being abused? if you don't think she was lying, are you saying that shoving food down a child's throat is not abuse?

Aye chico.....the first amendment gives you the right to say something, and it also give me the right to tell you to shut the hell up and mind your own business and if you really have a problem then call the police or keep walking. That's exactly what I would have said in this situation.

I would have to agree- you didn't HAVE to say anything. It's not up to you to decide who is treating their kids right and who is treating them wrong- in any case if there was a serious problem then you could have called the po po. If everyone went around telling eachother what to do and what not to do then everyone would hate everyone and things would get pretty ugly. I don't like it when I see people being mean to their kids, but hey I don't know their family, I don't know things that have happened so I just cringe and bite my tongue, but not too hard.

[scumpi 0]

```...so I just cringe and bite my tongue, but not too hard``quote

I think you right on this,and put in a perfect and cute way ( I just try visualise cringing and biting one`s tongue,but not to hard

[meddykomp 0]

This is an interesting topic. Where I live there are public service announcements about how we should help eachother in parenting. They actually encourage you to get involved in these situations. I honestly do not know what I would have done on Monique's situation. I cannot see myself simply ignoring something if I consider it abusive. On the other hand, I do recognize that people have a bad day, kids can be difficult at times.

As a side note, I want my children to respect me, but I do not want them to fear me. If they fear me, they may feel that they cannot come to me with difficult situations, and it is very important to me that they know that I am here for them.

[*Robert* 2]

Children should definately fear their parents wrath.

I wonder how some of us manage to get through life without once having been spanked, whooped, hit, or otherwise had physical "corrective" measures enforced upon us.... it's truly amazing we aren't all horrible criminals...how DID that happen??

My mother just had to give me "the look", and when I did something wrong she spoke slower, softer and made sure she said my whole name. That's how I knew I'd done something wrong. But I never ever ever feared she would go off on me, or hit me. That wasn't her style and I'm glad of it. What I instead learned to fear was having her become disappointed in my actions. That made a much bigger impact on me. And I learned from a very young age that acting out in public was not acceptible at all. My mother and I talk about it now when we see how parents let their kids run around restaurants, holler and scream, and cause mayhem. I would have never got away with it...but imagine that, it wasn't because she beat it out of me or screamed.

I don't think anyone here can judge Gimy's actions as they weren't in the restaurant to see what went down, but I DO think it's a shame that some people feel the parent's "rights" come before the safety of a child...

Frances, sounds like you had an extrodinary mother, and I wish there were more like her. The idea of actually being able to raise a child without using any kind of physical punishment or verbal abuse seems like a dream world. It's good to hear that there are some people who actually have been raised that way, and there are parents successful in implementing it.

Too many times I see parents who don't use any punsishment, or yell at their kids, and the kids run around like little maniacs! Totally spoiled rotten and obnoxious brats. When I see that type of behaviour, the first thing I think is that those kids need a good a$$ whooping! Hearing your story makes me see it doesn't always have to be that way either.

Now days it's hard to decide what the best ways are to raise children. Following psycho babble techniques, or good 'ole fashioned discipline.

[sarah and hicham 3]

I'm not a big fan of other people's kids, I usually just get annoyed when I go to a restaurant and see a family with kids and the kids are running around screaming between all the tables, and the parents are just smiling and laughing about it. That really pisses me off. I just had to get that off my chest. I don't feel much better, but it's a start.

[meddykomp 0]

Recently, my own child was disruptive and misbehaving in a restaurant. We left .. without eating. I understand that it can be frustrating for other customers when kids misbehave. I just don't see that humiliating a child or force feeding them would resolve any type of disciplinary problem. Kids with poor self-esteems often act up even more.

[sarah and hicham 3]

Recently, my own child was disruptive and misbehaving in a restaurant. We left .. without eating. I understand that it can be frustrating for other customers when kids misbehave. I just don't see that humiliating a child or force feeding them would resolve any type of disciplinary problem. Kids with poor self-esteems often act up even more.

I think what you did is great personally. I mean I can understand how frustrating it would be to go out and leave early because of your child, but I think what you did was very respectable. Believe it or not kids running around screaming really can ruin a nice sit down dinner for many people. Some people think it's cute, and some want to put a muzzle on those kids... anyways thanks for what you did!

[Sister Fracas 5]

Frances, sounds like you had an extrodinary mother, and I wish there were more like her. The idea of actually being able to raise a child without using any kind of physical punishment or verbal abuse seems like a dream world. It's good to hear that there are some people who actually have been raised that way, and there are parents successful in implementing it.

Too many times I see parents who don't use any punsishment, or yell at their kids, and the kids run around like little maniacs! Totally spoiled rotten and obnoxious brats. When I see that type of behaviour, the first thing I think is that those kids need a good a$$ whooping! Hearing your story makes me see it doesn't always have to be that way either.

Now days it's hard to decide what the best ways are to raise children. Following psycho babble techniques, or good 'ole fashioned discipline.

Thanks Robert, I DO find my mum to be an extraordinary woman, someone I'd be proud to be like, and I don't think she had the easiest time of it as a divorced mum with no help from my father. Maybe she was determined not to use physical means because she knew what it was like to be hit by her father. I remember one time as a teen doing babysitting I told her I'd smacked one of the boys on the arm and she told me never to strike a child, not anyone's, ever. It stuck with me.

I also think the silent treatment I received after doing something wrong said enough to me to know....eeeesh, this is no good.

Yeah...I know what you mean about people following psycho-babble ways to discipline their kids and it's not like I didn't have punishment. Arrrrgh, I remember having to sit at a table for HOURS after refusing to eat some nasty barley soup. The soup became like a paste. But she didn't yell or hit me or force it down me, she just said...that's what's for dinner and you'll sit there either till you eat it or bed time. I sat till bed time.. LOL We still laugh about it to this day...she learned how to make barley soup though...

It really just hurts some part of my being to think of children being hit...

[pax 1]

Arrrrgh, I remember having to sit at a table for HOURS after refusing to eat some nasty barley soup. The soup became like a paste. But she didn't yell or hit me or force it down me, she just said...that's what's for dinner and you'll sit there either till you eat it or bed time. I sat till bed time.. LOL We still laugh about it to this day...she learned how to make barley soup though...

I used exactly the same tactic on babysitting charges and on my younger siblings when I used to care for them. My mom's famous line "This is not the Holiday Inn!" really resonated with me...I ate what was for dinner until I learned how to cook for myself.

The trick is to give kids some autonomy within certain limits...for example, the parents of a kid I used to babysit wanted to make sure he had a vegetable with every meal. So I would usually let him choose the vegetable, since there was always a variety, but he HAD to pick a vegetable and he HAD to eat all of it. Then he could have a cookie or two after the meal.