Muta marriage in Egypt

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Yes, I both make and understand distinctions between Sharia and fiqh, but I also don't believe in advocating for the makruh or committing makruh acts just because no punishment is attached.

But, it being makruh is not God's judgment is is man's fallible opinion. That makes it non-binding in light that Allah did not direct it to be makruh.

Of course man cannot make impermissible what God did not, just as man cannot make required of us what God did not.

And man cannot make makruh what God did not make makruh.

I have no issue with Muslim women marrying non-Muslim men. I don't think there is evidence to declare this an impermissible act. I also thinking seeking out a Christian husband (if one accepts such marriage as makruh and as you stated it was) is quite different than a woman converting and then dealing with a marriage and likely children that already exist, and this is why it is so important that Islam and fiqh rulings are not static, and things can vary even within a time/region. A respectful Christian man can be a better husband more supportive of a woman's faith than plenty of Muslims.

I stated that scholars have declared it makruh, not that I agree with that. I have also stated that Allah did not decree it to be makruh.

That said, when something is determined as makruh for our time/place, and after thoughtful examination we agree with such determination, I see no point in purposely engaging in it. It has nothing to do with misplaced respect. I personally don't think that our lives should be simply an avoidance of the haram and fulfilling of only the obligatory. As you know, an act being halal doesn't make it desired. Rulings on illicit drug use are made through qiyas and therefore are not divine, but it doesn't take a 3-digit IQ to realize that shooting up wouldn't be pleasing to God.

What is thoughtful about turning Muslima converts out of their homes, and making Muslim women who marry out pariahs when this is not what Allah has declared to be proper and it brings no benefit to the faith? Muslim men marrying non-Muslim women in the west is just as makruh and from the same source, but it doesn't receive the same passivity nor hostiltiy among Muslims as maintaing control over women invokes.

Blind following is not a productive endevour, and when critical thinking is applied, this makes no sense at all. Let A;;ah speak for Himself, and if He has no problem with it, why do we allow mortals to overrule that in a double standard that we will undoubtedly have to answer for.

You are basing makruh on human judgement and holding that to be equal to God's law. Scholars who have determined that interfaith marriage for Muslimas is not makruh are growing in number, and, as have so many thingd, this will change.

Your mastery of adab is such a shining example for all.

I have the proper adab to fit the ocassion. Do you think the Prophet was always PC? He stoned people, sis, so I doubt it.

Are you not a novice?

Edited April 19, 2008 by Virtual wife

[peezey 0]

haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, ladies, I am not digging at atheists, as many know, I am one. I am only making light of things GEG has disdain for...

atheists, fornicators

Edited April 19, 2008 by peezey

[pugsly 0]

there are no atheists in a sinking ship!

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Typos suck.

[peezey 0]

there are no atheists in a sinking ship!

hilarious, because any time I've thought, I might just die right now, my final thoughts all related to hoping my parents would love my dogs forever and ever.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, ladies, I am not digging at atheists, as many know, I am one. I am only making light of things GEG has disdain for...

atheists, fornicators

GEG didnt write the Quran or its law re atheists and fornicators. I just discuss it.

Edited April 19, 2008 by Virtual wife

[pugsly 0]

there are no atheists in a sinking ship!

unless the coast guard is nearby off course.

[aisha kandisha 0]

Yes, I both make and understand distinctions between Sharia and fiqh, but I also don't believe in advocating for the makruh or committing makruh acts just because no punishment is attached.

But, it being makruh is not God's judgment is is man's fallible opinion. That makes it non-binding in light that Allah did not direct it to be makruh.

Of course man cannot make impermissible what God did not, just as man cannot make required of us what God did not.

And man cannot make makruh what God did not make makruh.

I have no issue with Muslim women marrying non-Muslim men. I don't think there is evidence to declare this an impermissible act. I also thinking seeking out a Christian husband (if one accepts such marriage as makruh and as you stated it was) is quite different than a woman converting and then dealing with a marriage and likely children that already exist, and this is why it is so important that Islam and fiqh rulings are not static, and things can vary even within a time/region. A respectful Christian man can be a better husband more supportive of a woman's faith than plenty of Muslims.

I stated that scholars have declared it makruh, not that I agree with that. I have also stated that Allah did not decree it to be makruh.

That said, when something is determined as makruh for our time/place, and after thoughtful examination we agree with such determination, I see no point in purposely engaging in it. It has nothing to do with misplaced respect. I personally don't think that our lives should be simply an avoidance of the haram and fulfilling of only the obligatory. As you know, an act being halal doesn't make it desired. Rulings on illicit drug use are made through qiyas and therefore are not divine, but it doesn't take a 3-digit IQ to realize that shooting up wouldn't be pleasing to God.

What is thoughtful about turning Muslima converts out of their homes, and making Muslim women who marry out pariahs when this is not what Allah has declared to be proper and it brings no benefit to the faith? Muslim men marrying non-Muslim women in the west is just as makruh and from the same source, but it doesn't receive the same passivity nor hostiltiy among Muslims as maintaing control over women invokes.

Blind following is not a productive endevour, and when critical thinking is applied, this makes no sense at all. Let A;;ah speak for Himself, and if He has no problem with it, why do we allow mortals to overrule that in a double standard that we will undoubtedly have to answer for.

You are basing makruh on human judgement and holding that to be equal to God's law. Scholars who have determined that interfaith marriage for Muslimas is not makruh are growing in number, and, as have so many thingd, this will change.

Your mastery of adab is such a shining example for all.

I have the proper adab to fit the ocassion. Do you think the Prophet was always PC? He stoned people, sis, so I doubt it.

I never held human judgment to be equal to God's law. I will make it real simple for you - if after careful examination I believe an act would be displeasing to God - I strive to avoid it.

And as far as the Prophet, I think he was a man of impeccable adab, and if you feel your manners are in any way reflective of how he carried himself, I believe you are mistaken. Obviously you feel otherwise.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I never held human judgment to be equal to God's law. I will make it real simple for you - if after careful examination I believe an act would be displeasing to God - I strive to avoid it.

I have addressed your post with specifics, which is proper adab. In turn, I have asked some specific questions. Show your superior adab and address them please. I will post them again for your convenience:

What is thoughtful about turning Muslima converts out of their homes, and making Muslim women who marry out pariahs when this is not what Allah has declared to be proper and it brings no benefit to the faith?

Muslim men marrying non-Muslim women in the west is just as makruh and from the same source, but it doesn't receive the same passivity nor hostiltiy among Muslims as maintaining control over women invokes.

Please address these salient points with reference to your respect for the reasoning of fallible beings.

And as far as the Prophet, I think he was a man of impeccable adab, and if you feel your manners are in any way reflective of how he carried himself, I believe you are mistaken. Obviously you feel otherwise.

I am not a romantic about the Prophet. He was a flawed human being who was rightly guided by God, but capable of negative human emotions. The Quran speaks of how he is capable of mistakes and the punishment that would become him if he betrayed God. So, although i do not compare myself to him, I know enough about him not to project perfection upon him.

Edited April 19, 2008 by Virtual wife

[Ban Hammer 12,841]

hahahaha typical virtual wife ignorant and just spread wrong information

you know it is waste my time to read your posting and answer it

old mam like you just keep home praying and ask forgivness for what she did allover her life. and after all she still think about her sexual desires and looking for younger strong man to staisfy her

and oh please dont pretend to be angel good muslim while you arenot and show your ugly old face thats all i can say about you . and by sorry i see some new muslim believe her lie about islam it is very sad . but Allah know best

dont you know by marrying non muslim man u admmit shirk and u should say shahada again

i wish you do before you die cause i really wish you die muslim not mushrika .

you need to cease with the personal attacks.

You don't think stating that they are not really married and stating that they only have "fukking papers" is not a personal attack????

no. and even if anyone felt that was the case, that's a maximum of two at best as compared to the more than half a dozen contained above.....

[Ban Hammer 12,841]

there are no atheists in a sinking ship!

unless the coast guard is nearby off course.

generally the same for atheists in foxholes. not as many when they have round the clock air support and dedicated offshore bombardment

[SaadBell 0]

peezey -

You had me girl, and here I was going to say I was sorry for being an evil sinner. That was good, one question, PLEASE COME TO MY HOUSE AND GET SOMETHING BIG AND KNOCK ME OUT PLEASE. I seriously need to sleep one day and I am beginning to think it is going to take someone to just give me a nice little coma. I AMMMMMMMMMM SO TIRED and why am I the only one in my family that deals with insomnia? Husband sleeps, my mother, goes to bed, and in 5 min she is snoring!!!!!!!!!!!! WHY WHY WHY, alright back to topic, as you can see I would love to start a thread on the evils of insomnia.

[aisha kandisha 0]

I never held human judgment to be equal to God's law. I will make it real simple for you - if after careful examination I believe an act would be displeasing to God - I strive to avoid it.

I have addressed your post with specifics, which is proper adab. In turn, I have asked some specific questions. Show your superior adab and address them please. I will post them again for your convenience:

What is thoughtful about turning Muslima converts out of their homes, and making Muslim women who marry out pariahs when this is not what Allah has declared to be proper and it brings no benefit to the faith?

Muslim men marrying non-Muslim women in the west is just as makruh and from the same source, but it doesn't receive the same passivity nor hostiltiy among Muslims as maintaining control over women invokes.

Please address these salient points with reference to your respect for the reasoning of fallible beings.

And as far as the Prophet, I think he was a man of impeccable adab, and if you feel your manners are in any way reflective of how he carried himself, I believe you are mistaken. Obviously you feel otherwise.

I am not a romantic about the Prophet. He was a flawed human being who was rightly guided by God, but capable of negative human emotions. The Quran speaks of how he is capable of mistakes and the punishment that would become him if he betrayed God. So, although i do not compare myself to him, I know enough about him not to project perfection upon him.

I don't think your points are salient as you hold them. Obviously there is nothing thoughtful about turning women out of their homes or making women out to be pariahs who marry out of Islam. There is absolutely no good in such acts. I never stated as such and found the questions not even tangential to the topic, which is why I had not answered them. To be clear, my feelings on avoiding acts displeasing to God are not tied in to marriage. I brought them up because in all the debating on marriage that was going on, it started to come across to me like just because something is makruh, it is somehow advisable - but perhaps that is just my read of the discussion. If I believe in good faith that an act would be displeasing (not haram) to God and I feel it should be avoided, it does not mean that I advocate ill-treatment towards someone who chooses otherwise.

Back to marriage, I do think there are reasons why marriage to a non-Muslim in a non-Muslim country by either a Muslim man or a woman can at times be ill-advised for a number of reasons, many of which have already been discussed, but also feel this comes down to the particular individuals, the community in which they live, the support from their families, etc. I think if someone makes such a choice and it seems like the road ahead for them is going to be difficult/disastrous, what they need is support and not condemnation. Throwing a woman out or blasting a man for his choice may only drive them farther away from their faith (although no one can really drive another away, an individual makes this choice). If the reasoning behind discouraging such marital choices is because they may stray, ostracizing such people is really counterintuitive.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Thank you. So, following this line of logic, we understand that makruh in this context is a human construct, not from the sharia. As such, it is not to be presumed that Allah is displeased by a form of marriage He did not forbid.

So, in that light, should it be against the law for Muslimas to marry ahl al kitab in Muslim countries where some understanding of Islam controls and community support is more obtainable?

Edited April 19, 2008 by Virtual wife

[nana_356 0]

hahahaha typical virtual wife ignorant and just spread wrong information

you know it is waste my time to read your posting and answer it

old mam like you just keep home praying and ask forgivness for what she did allover her life. and after all she still think about her sexual desires and looking for younger strong man to staisfy her

and oh please dont pretend to be angel good muslim while you arenot and show your ugly old face thats all i can say about you . and by sorry i see some new muslim believe her lie about islam it is very sad . but Allah know best

dont you know by marrying non muslim man u admmit shirk and u should say shahada again

i wish you do before you die cause i really wish you die muslim not mushrika .

My goodness, stop being so nasty and mean!