Muta marriage in Egypt

[Sofiyya 1,687]

THATS NOT EVIDENCE WV

as u know drinking wasnot forbiden in islam at first but Allah forbid muslim to pray while they are drinking then Allah forbid it completly later

your story doesnot mean it is allowed to non muslim man to marry muslim woman AT all

got lost lol

Yes, but it has been demonstrated that fiqh is the source of the "prohibition", not sharia. That is why you cannot find an ayat that disallows Muslim women from marriage with kitabi men, nor one that limits them to marriage with Muslim men. It is not in sharia, so there is no contradiction in the revelations of Islam; it exists only in the minds of tribal Muslims.

Islam is not a faith based on personal opinions, estadia. One is not able to dismiss views by merely saying one has the right to their own opinion. People devote their lives to understanding the word. Do not take it as fact that anyone can make up what pleases Allah out of his own mind. Diversity of thought in Islam doesn;t mean that every Tom, ####### or Harry is right because they can string words together on a message board.

Edited April 19, 2008 by Virtual wife

[sara..... 371]

THATS NOT EVIDENCE WV

as u know drinking wasnot forbiden in islam at first but Allah forbid muslim to pray while they are drinking then Allah forbid it completly later

your story doesnot mean it is allowed to non muslim man to marry muslim woman AT all

got lost lol

Yes, but it has been demonstrated that fiqh is the source of the "prohibition", not sharia. That is why you cannot find an ayat that disallows Muslim women from marriage with kitabi men, nor one that limits them to marriage with Muslim men. It is not in sharia, so there is no contradiction in the revelations of Islam; it exists only in the minds of tribal Muslims.

Islam is not a faith based on personal opinions, estadia. One is not able to dismiss views by merely saying one has the right to their own opinion. People devote their lives to understanding the word. Do not take it as fact that anyone can make up what pleases Allah out of his own mind. Diversity of thought in Islam doesn;t mean that every Tom, ####### or Harry is right because they can string words together on a message board.

my understanding of Islam is from my teacher....and..my family........its not something that i pulled out of a hat........there are many ways to disagree with what someone else is taught but attacking them is not the correct way.........

[Sofiyya 1,687]

my understanding of Islam is from my teacher....and..my family........its not something that i pulled out of a hat........there are many ways to disagree with what someone else is taught but attacking them is not the correct way.........

If addressing the wrong so it can be corrected is seen as an attack, then that exposes a flaw in what you have been taught.

[sara..... 371]

my understanding of Islam is from my teacher....and..my family........its not something that i pulled out of a hat........there are many ways to disagree with what someone else is taught but attacking them is not the correct way.........

If addressing the wrong so it can be corrected is seen as an attack, then that exposes a flaw in what you have been taught.

Islam should be taught or corrected with kindness..........what is Islam it is the religion of peace......if those that know nothing about Islam.......see muslims being rude to each other........or personally attacking another muslim what does that tell them about us? in truth Islam is not suppose to be effected by culture but realistically it is no one can change that unless u wish to take on all of Pakistan Egypt and even Saudi.......why did i say Saudi.......Islam allows no kings what is the head of Saudi?........so u see in the end u can read and teach until ur out of breath but u can not change what each person learns in their own country be it right or wrong in who evers eyes..........

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Islam is a religion of peace, but it also allows one to defend against attack. I posted my views on interfaith marriage, and mohamed attacked me for being an ignorant western convert who was spreading lies about Islam. As I presented my position in a rational, reasoned way and his font got larger. When I pointed out the hypocrisy in his claims of being married while filing a K1, he turned to personal insult because he has no game.

What I have posted is grounded in fact, is meant to warn against improper use of Islam, and doesn't constitute a personal attack at all.

[aisha kandisha 0]

THATS NOT EVIDENCE WV

as u know drinking wasnot forbiden in islam at first but Allah forbid muslim to pray while they are drinking then Allah forbid it completly later

your story doesnot mean it is allowed to non muslim man to marry muslim woman AT all

got lost lol

Yes, but it has been demonstrated that fiqh is the source of the "prohibition", not sharia. That is why you cannot find an ayat that disallows Muslim women from marriage with kitabi men, nor one that limits them to marriage with Muslim men. It is not in sharia, so there is no contradiction in the revelations of Islam; it exists only in the minds of tribal Muslims.

Islam is not a faith based on personal opinions, estadia. One is not able to dismiss views by merely saying one has the right to their own opinion. People devote their lives to understanding the word. Do not take it as fact that anyone can make up what pleases Allah out of his own mind. Diversity of thought in Islam doesn;t mean that every Tom, ####### or Harry is right because they can string words together on a message board.

Yes, there is no clear prohibition banning Muslim women from marrying al kitabi men in the Qu'ran, but since God made a clear point of pointing out its permissibility for men, a thousand plus years of scholarship have interpreted this to mean since this didn't include women, it is impermissible. Right or wrong, it is the near consensus of the ulema, and of all four jurisprudences, which some Muslims have respect for.

Either way, what is the point in arguing for the makruh? Isn't it something we should strive to avoid just as much as the haram? The haram is easy to avoid, because we know there will be punishment. If we love, respect, and want to please God, should we not strive to avoid the makruh just as much, strive to make the makruh on the same level as the haram in the way we live our lives? Saying I know you won't punish me for this act, but since it displeases you, it is something I won't engage in.

[sara..... 371]

Islam is a religion of peace, but it also allows one to defend against attack. I posted my views on interfaith marriage, and mohamed attacked me for being an ignorant western convert who was spreading lies about Islam. As I presented my position in a rational, reasoned way and his font got larger. When I pointed out the hypocrisy in his claims of being married while filing a K1, he turned to personal insult because he has no game.

What I have posted is grounded in fact, is meant to warn against improper use of Islam, and doesn't constitute a personal attack at all.

i will take this to pims because i dont think anyone needs another match on the board ok?

[~PalmTreeGurl~ 154]

I've been told by muslims that allah allows everyone to have different religions ... so I would believe that *if that was so... then God already knows about that and its not everyone elses business who muslim women marry.

Remember... God did that for a reason... so leave the muslim women married to Christian men be...

Another thing is ... sin is sin.... If GOD has a standard for men to uphold Hes going to have the same standard for women to uphold... whether its about who you love... (love other believers) or love thy neighbor as thyself. When it comes to GOD, there is no special circumstance of what is sin... so dont judge a muslim woman married to a christian man on that basis...

[Aymerlu 3]

OMG! It's another headache!

[Sofiyya 1,687]

i will take this to pims because i dont think anyone needs another match on the board ok?

You think it improves your position to attack me in PM? Not on your life.

[sara..... 371]

i will take this to pims because i dont think anyone needs another match on the board ok?

You think it improves your position to attack me in PM? Not on your life.

I did not attack u ....u r free to post what i sent u......i have been nothing but kind and respectful to u....why would u say such a thing? Im not trying to improve my position with u.......i am only trying to reason with u with kindness thats it.....if u feel that i have said anything to personally attack u im sorry it was not my intent at all..........in fact i did not even state that ur wrong or correct.......

[S and S 12]

The more I read these arguments, the more I think these topics are getting beaten to death. All the arguments have been posted and mostly everything is getting repeated at this time. We have established that some people believe this temporary marriage was the best solution to their problems. Some people agree with this, others don't. The point is that the couples who did the temporary marriage have every intention of marrying legally as soon as they are able. Obviously this means they recognize the fact they need a more solid marriage contract. Nothing can fix their current situation so it is pointless to continue berrating them for their past choices. I think they are fully aware of them now if they weren't already. The K-1 visa will not work to get a MENA man into the US unless he really does intend to marry legally once he arrives so it is not using the woman in the same way as it is when there are temporary marriages within Egypt just for pleasure. Soon, inshallah, they will be legally married and no one can question them again for their choices.

As for whether or not a muslim woman can marry a non-muslim man, all the points have been made for this too. We can look at all the ahadith and Quranic ayats and find nothing is exactly clear and must be implied. Perhaps only God knows what is the right answer or the wrong. Is it generally better to marry from within your own religion for the sake of harmony in the marriage and less confusion for children? Yes, it is generally better. Yet there are cases where men and women made it work out and felt little of the religious differences. If the man and woman of different religions follow the guidance of God/Allah and do their best to live their life in a pure way, then maybe there is no harm in it. Can anyone truly be for sure what it is God/Allah wants?

So you say what you think is right and you feel you pointed out a wrong and then you move on. Lets stop beating these topics to death and hurting each other. Lets set the example for peace among Islam and not prove everyone else right about their views on muslims. It would be far better to unite and show a good face for Islam so that people will see it in a good light and stop judging it to be such a hate filled religion.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Yes, there is no clear prohibition banning Muslim women from marrying al kitabi men in the Qu'ran, but since God made a clear point of pointing out its permissibility for men, a thousand plus years of scholarship have interpreted this to mean since this didn't include women, it is impermissible. Right or wrong, it is the near consensus of the ulema, and of all four jurisprudences, which some Muslims have respect for.

Either way, what is the point in arguing for the makruh? Isn't it something we should strive to avoid just as much as the haram? The haram is easy to avoid, because we know there will be punishment. If we love, respect, and want to please God, should we not strive to avoid the makruh just as much, strive to make the makruh on the same level as the haram in the way we live our lives? Saying I know you won't punish me for this act, but since it displeases you, it is something I won't engage in.

Actually, part of that scholarship is a tenet of law known as the asl al deen. It prescribes that what Allah has made halal is halal, what Allah has made haram is haram. That He has been silent about is a blessing to us.

Do you not make distinctions between the divine law of Allah and the interpretations of the text by fallible men thatconprises fiqh? Fiqh has trends and has changed over time. This, too, will pass. and there will be those who say it is a good thing to be no longer a burden on women.

No man can truly make impermissible that which Allah did not. It is an opinion, and the early imams expected their rulings to be changed and reevaluated because, they were not God, nor a proper substitute for Him. They made their rulings in consideration of the needs of the society they were addressing, so the rulings would vary, and they did not expect their opinions to be binding on all Muslims for all time.

For example, there is one school that rules that a man may marry off his daughters without their permission. Another school says he cannot. Which school is binding on all Muslims, when, in fact, unless you are under the jurisdiction of that school, the ruling is only binding on you IF you voluntarily accept is as binding.

You see, moral law, fiqh, is not equal to divine law. Your resepect is misplaced when Allah is the final arbitor. Makruh is a mortal determination for a situation that is specific, not general. It could change and that would be that because motals change their minds. Allah didn't allot a punishment for interfaith marriage for Muslimas, as He didn't prohibit it. Muslims, having a need to control their women and limit them to their men, did so in His stead. How does that please God? How does it comfort you to believe that following ijima in a matter that Allah did not legislate is better than following God?

In the west, women who convert to Islam have been commanded to tear away form the life thy had, a loving husband, divide their little children to "please God" because of the opinion of scholars. In contrast, a husband who converts is allowed to keep secure his non-Muslim wife, doing her no harm, and elevating her status by her assiciation with a Muslim man with no effort of her own.

Are you to accept that the women, by being drawn to Islam, is to be first punished by having to leave her home nd her non-Muslim husband, even if he is fine with her conversion? Are you ok with how her first act is to create acrimony in her life and between the people who love her as her introduction to the faith? How is the stark contrast between what happens to a married non-Muslim woman who accepts Islam and a married non-Muslim man who accepts Islam grab you? Does the diversity in their treatment repulse you, or do you merely shrug your shoulders and say, well, it is ijima, a product of centuries of scholarship. It is ok with me?

The reason why there is an allowance for the needs of society in fiqh rulings is because of the diversity between societies. Is it makruh to use Islam to bring non-Muslim men to understanding rather than bitterness when his wife converts? Is it mahruh to make Muslim women who fall in love with a non-Muslim Muslim man in the west pariahs, even as we congratulate Muslim men who do the same with a non-Muslim woman?

Islam is a rational faith. It is not mena to be bound by jahilyya traditions and the notion that Muslims are superior to non-Muslims, Arabs are superior to Arabs, and men are superior to women. A permission for men does not create a prohibition for women. That is not so in any other ayah addressed to men, but also held to be binding on women. In fact, it is a commonality in Islamic law that what the Quran says is binding on all Muslims, and the Quran is mostly addressed to men, but that is only reflective of the gender norms of the Arab pennisula at the time, not a obligation of the Message for all time.

It is good that you are thinking, but you are still thinking as a novice.

[doodlebugg 10]

hahahaha typical virtual wife ignorant and just spread wrong information

you know it is waste my time to read your posting and answer it

old mam like you just keep home praying and ask forgivness for what she did allover her life. and after all she still think about her sexual desires and looking for younger strong man to staisfy her

and oh please dont pretend to be angel good muslim while you arenot and show your ugly old face thats all i can say about you . and by sorry i see some new muslim believe her lie about islam it is very sad . but Allah know best

dont you know by marrying non muslim man u admmit shirk and u should say shahada again

i wish you do before you die cause i really wish you die muslim not mushrika .

you need to cease with the personal attacks.

You don't think stating that they are not really married and stating that they only have "fukking papers" is not a personal attack????

[Sofiyya 1,687]

People are free to post. People are free to stop reading.

The more I read these arguments, the more I think these topics are getting beaten to death. All the arguments have been posted and mostly everything is getting repeated at this time. We have established that some people believe this temporary marriage was the best solution to their problems. Some people agree with this, others don't. The point is that the couples who did the temporary marriage have every intention of marrying legally as soon as they are able. Obviously this means they recognize the fact they need a more solid marriage contract. Nothing can fix their current situation so it is pointless to continue berrating them for their past choices. I think they are fully aware of them now if they weren't already. The K-1 visa will not work to get a MENA man into the US unless he really does intend to marry legally once he arrives so it is not using the woman in the same way as it is when there are temporary marriages within Egypt just for pleasure. Soon, inshallah, they will be legally married and no one can question them again for their choices.

As for whether or not a muslim woman can marry a non-muslim man, all the points have been made for this too. We can look at all the ahadith and Quranic ayats and find nothing is exactly clear and must be implied. Perhaps only God knows what is the right answer or the wrong. Is it generally better to marry from within your own religion for the sake of harmony in the marriage and less confusion for children? Yes, it is generally better. Yet there are cases where men and women made it work out and felt little of the religious differences. If the man and woman of different religions follow the guidance of God/Allah and do their best to live their life in a pure way, then maybe there is no harm in it. Can anyone truly be for sure what it is God/Allah wants?

So you say what you think is right and you feel you pointed out a wrong and then you move on. Lets stop beating these topics to death and hurting each other. Lets set the example for peace among Islam and not prove everyone else right about their views on muslims. It would be far better to unite and show a good face for Islam so that people will see it in a good light and stop judging it to be such a hate filled religion.