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Like the fox guarding the hen house? What do you suppose can be done to keep foxes from guarding hen houses without knowing they are foxes to begin with? I'd say it begins with therapy...every child victim of sexual abuse should receive thorough counseling until they are adults. That would a go a long way in preventing the cycle of abuse. As for the Catholic Church and The Boy Scouts - they can have a more thorough screening process that includes psychological evaluation of their candidates.

Here's something worth noting:

"Most pedophiles have scores of sexual contacts with children before coming to the attention of the cops," says Dr. Joyce Garber, a Monticello psychotherapist.

The question is, why? What makes a pedophile tick?

It's a complex question, say the experts. "We're only now coming out of the Stone Age and into the Iron Age in our understanding of this," says Peter Geller, a clinical social worker in Newburgh who has worked with sex offenders for 17 years.

What is known, though, is that most pedophiles were once victims of sexual abuse themselves.

"A pedophile often chooses a child who's the same age he was when his own abuse occurred," says Garber. "As the child grows older, the pedophile loses interest and seeks out another of the desired age."

By becoming the perpetrator, the former victim is able to re-enact his own abuse, this time with a feeling of control. (Like I stated earlier about power)

The vast majority of pedophiles are heterosexual males, according to several studies. Many have seemingly normal relationships with women and raise families.

Some choose jobs that allow them to work with children – not just for access, but to convince themselves and others that they're really good people, says Ken Lanning, a retired FBI special agent who spent 30 years investigating the sexual victimization of children.

"Take out the sex and they might be considered saints," says Lanning.

http://archive.recordonline.com/archive/20...12/bqpedoph.htm

Now we're making some progress in the discussion. "What makes a pedophile tick?" as noted above is a complicated question. The research above at least implies a correlation between the pedophile's childhood experience with abuse and their later abuse of children. If correct, it points to environmental factors as primary in the development of the deviance. However, it speaks little of what might trigger the onset of abusive behavior.

The idea of providing extensive therapy to abuse victims seems like a good preventative measure. Psychological screening of potential Priests is also a potentially effective countermeasure prior to and during a Priest's carreer.

If trauma from childhood abuse is a frequent environmental common denomenator, at least to a major extent, what then are the environmental common denominators that trigger the abusive behavior as an adult?

I don't' know the answer. I'm simply suggesting the Church put as much effort into the issue of "after Priesthood onset of abusive behavior" as they do preventing pedophiles from entering the Priesthood. Perhaps the preventions methods would be quite similar.

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Also want to point out that pedophilia is more than just a behavior, but a psychosis. Whereas a heterosexual or even homosexual person has sexual desires, they do not act them out forceably onto another person - we call that rape. That's an important distinction between the sexual behavior of pedophiles from what is considered normal sexual behavior. In that sense, they have more in common with rapists than just someone with a sexual desire.

Exactly. And this goes to the point I was making earlier. I don't think that environmental factors turn a normal person into a rapist. Maybe a rapist doesn't start raping until he is an adult, but I don't think anyone would suggest if we just change the circumstances an adult finds himself in, he won't become a rapist. I make the distinction between adult and child because I do think that experiences in childhood could trigger this sort of thing. But priests don't become priests until adulthood, so to "address in a preventative way, the part of the process that occurs between ordination and getting caught" is moot, IMO. You can't "make" a pedophile out of a normal person. If he is a pedophile before he becomes a priest, then he will be a pedophile after he is ordained. If he is not, he won't "become" one because of the priesthood.

I guess for the lack of a better term, I'm trying to be significantly more "nuanced" than the responses I'm getting. I'm not using terms that suggest certain environments directly cause one to "turn into" a pedophile or "trigger" pedophile behavior. I'm saying there is an environmental element to the development of both the behavior and the underlying mental illness. Pedophilia develops over time. Not only do Pedophiles seek target rich environments but the target rich environments serve as a nurturing place for development to at least SOME extent.

I find it difficult to imagine the possibility of a male child raised away from other children, in a completely adult environment would ever develop sexual desires for other children. There's just no stimulus.

Pedophilia, like any deviant behavior and whether also a psycosis has an onset cycle. That onset cycle can begin at age 10, 13, 18, 25, 35 or 50 and so on. So it stands to reason that some pedophile Priests' onset occurs after they become Priests, while already in the target rich environment and already in a position of power over children.

I guess if nobody sees this as a separate issue from preventing men who are already pedophiles from entering the Catholic Priesthood and also separate from dealing with Priests who are caught, then there's no purpose for further discussion.

I'm not bashing Priests, or the Church or saying the Priesthood causes pedophilia or turns men into pedophiles, no matter how many people can't seem to comprehend the difference.

I'm religious. I don't believe and am not going to believe people are predestined to certain behavior without freedom to chose and without influence from their environment but that's not the subject of this thread. It's not the subject of the thread because nobody is going to learn anything from such a discussion except that opinions vary and are strongly held.

Okay. I just want to make sure that I'm understanding you. Are you saying that the traditions of the church are responsible for "triggering" or "onsetting" the psychosis? In other words, practices that have nothing to do with pedophilia coincidentally trigger it. If you think this, you are saying that the Church needs to change its traditions. I wonder what you think the traditions are. If you are talking about the fact that priests can't marry, then I don't think that has anything to do with the actual preisthood.

No, I'm not saying anything of the kind. I thought I went to pedantic extremes to say just the opposite. My meaning will be better understood if you take me literally rather than trying to read something more into it.

But you are suggesting that there have to be preventive measures put in place by the Church, as though this were something they could prevent. You asked if something about the priesthood creates these pedophiles, and my question is what about the priesthood could create pedophilia. And the question is Chicken or the Egg. I don't think I'm reading into what you are saying. I'm beginning to think that you mean that there seem to be a disproportionate number of pedophiles in the priesthood and how can the Church address this. I think that was what your original article was saying the Church was doing. If you have another suggestion, I'd like to hear it. This is not a challenge. I'm not defending the Church. I don't think that the Church creates pedophiles, but I'm not defending it.

See bold above. No, I didn't ask if something about hte priesthood creates these pedophiles, nor did I suggest it does. "Creates" is a word with meaning. I used no such word. The references to environmental influences were far less pointed or accusatory because I intended them to be so. I don't think there's something about the priesthood that creates pedophiles. I think some priests become pedophiles after they become priests, not because they become priests. And since some of the "becoming" occurs "after", focusing exclusively on preventing men who already ARE pedophiles from entering the Priesthood is insufficient.

Again, "after, therefore because of" is a logical fallacy in which I do not engage. Google "post hoc, ergo propter hoc" many explanations of this fallacy or see the link I gave earlier in the discussion.

Edited by pushbrk

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ABOARD THE PAPAL PLANE - Pope Benedict XVI said Tuesday he was "deeply ashamed" of the clergy sexual abuse scandal in the Roman Catholic Church and will work to make sure pedophiles don't become priests.

Please don't take this as a condemnation of Priests or the Roman Catholic Church, or make it one.

I just read this little sound bite and thought to myself, "Which comes first?" I always had it in my head that at least as many pedophiles become so, based on their environment over time. Sure, there may be some male pedophiles that seek to become priests but isn't it just as likely that their environment and associations after becoming Priests contribute greatly to developing the deviance?

Again, I'm not saying there's something inherent about vows of celebacy or homosexual tendancies that "causes" one to become a pedophile (Heterosexuals are pedophiles too.) or that the Catholic church's religious beliefs about the celebacy of Priests is wrong or evil. I'm just wondering about the chicken or egg issue. Surely in this context one comes first roughly as often as the other. As such, I'd prefer the Church address both the chicken and the egg. I have no suggestion as to how.

All kidding aside.At least he's finally admitting there is a problem and atrtempting to address it.For decades all they did was cover up the molestation.This problem runs rampid in my part of the country. I feel that pedophiles are drawn to the priesthood.If they would cut out the celibacy and allow them to get married,the problem would not exist as much.Believe it or not,the parents were in some instances to blame because they did not believe the children when they reported the molestation.They would be like,"Father so and so would NEVER do a thing like that."

Agreed. What he says he'll do is good. The thread is to discuss the need for even more, and why.

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Like the fox guarding the hen house? What do you suppose can be done to keep foxes from guarding hen houses without knowing they are foxes to begin with? I'd say it begins with therapy...every child victim of sexual abuse should receive thorough counseling until they are adults. That would a go a long way in preventing the cycle of abuse. As for the Catholic Church and The Boy Scouts - they can have a more thorough screening process that includes psychological evaluation of their candidates.

Here's something worth noting:

"Most pedophiles have scores of sexual contacts with children before coming to the attention of the cops," says Dr. Joyce Garber, a Monticello psychotherapist.

The question is, why? What makes a pedophile tick?

It's a complex question, say the experts. "We're only now coming out of the Stone Age and into the Iron Age in our understanding of this," says Peter Geller, a clinical social worker in Newburgh who has worked with sex offenders for 17 years.

What is known, though, is that most pedophiles were once victims of sexual abuse themselves.

"A pedophile often chooses a child who's the same age he was when his own abuse occurred," says Garber. "As the child grows older, the pedophile loses interest and seeks out another of the desired age."

By becoming the perpetrator, the former victim is able to re-enact his own abuse, this time with a feeling of control. (Like I stated earlier about power)

The vast majority of pedophiles are heterosexual males, according to several studies. Many have seemingly normal relationships with women and raise families.

Some choose jobs that allow them to work with children – not just for access, but to convince themselves and others that they're really good people, says Ken Lanning, a retired FBI special agent who spent 30 years investigating the sexual victimization of children.

"Take out the sex and they might be considered saints," says Lanning.

http://archive.recordonline.com/archive/20...12/bqpedoph.htm

Now we're making some progress in the discussion. "What makes a pedophile tick?" as noted above is a complicated question. The research above at least implies a correlation between the pedophile's childhood experience with abuse and their later abuse of children. If correct, it points to environmental factors as primary in the development of the deviance. However, it speaks little of what might trigger the onset of abusive behavior.

The idea of providing extensive therapy to abuse victims seems like a good preventative measure. Psychological screening of potential Priests is also a potentially effective countermeasure prior to and during a Priest's carreer.

If trauma from childhood abuse is a frequent environmental common denomenator, at least to a major extent, what then are the environmental common denominators that trigger the abusive behavior as an adult?

I don't' know the answer. I'm simply suggesting the Church put as much effort into the issue of "after Priesthood onset of abusive behavior" as they do preventing pedophiles from entering the Priesthood. Perhaps the preventions methods would be quite similar.

The trigger is that the victim who was traumatized by loss of control over the abuse finds some kind of resolve for that loss of control by victimizing someone else. That's an underlying aspect of all forms of abuse - loss of control and the incessant need for control. What complicates sexual abuse is the conflicting physical sensations that a victim may experience which can shape their sexuality to associate pleasure with abuse.

It's a messed up sickness, but in IMO to really tackle it, the focus should be on the control/power part of all abuse.

Edited by Jabberwocky
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Like the fox guarding the hen house? What do you suppose can be done to keep foxes from guarding hen houses without knowing they are foxes to begin with? I'd say it begins with therapy...every child victim of sexual abuse should receive thorough counseling until they are adults. That would a go a long way in preventing the cycle of abuse. As for the Catholic Church and The Boy Scouts - they can have a more thorough screening process that includes psychological evaluation of their candidates.

Here's something worth noting:

"Most pedophiles have scores of sexual contacts with children before coming to the attention of the cops," says Dr. Joyce Garber, a Monticello psychotherapist.

The question is, why? What makes a pedophile tick?

It's a complex question, say the experts. "We're only now coming out of the Stone Age and into the Iron Age in our understanding of this," says Peter Geller, a clinical social worker in Newburgh who has worked with sex offenders for 17 years.

What is known, though, is that most pedophiles were once victims of sexual abuse themselves.

"A pedophile often chooses a child who's the same age he was when his own abuse occurred," says Garber. "As the child grows older, the pedophile loses interest and seeks out another of the desired age."

By becoming the perpetrator, the former victim is able to re-enact his own abuse, this time with a feeling of control. (Like I stated earlier about power)

The vast majority of pedophiles are heterosexual males, according to several studies. Many have seemingly normal relationships with women and raise families.

Some choose jobs that allow them to work with children – not just for access, but to convince themselves and others that they're really good people, says Ken Lanning, a retired FBI special agent who spent 30 years investigating the sexual victimization of children.

"Take out the sex and they might be considered saints," says Lanning.

http://archive.recordonline.com/archive/20...12/bqpedoph.htm

Now we're making some progress in the discussion. "What makes a pedophile tick?" as noted above is a complicated question. The research above at least implies a correlation between the pedophile's childhood experience with abuse and their later abuse of children. If correct, it points to environmental factors as primary in the development of the deviance. However, it speaks little of what might trigger the onset of abusive behavior.

The idea of providing extensive therapy to abuse victims seems like a good preventative measure. Psychological screening of potential Priests is also a potentially effective countermeasure prior to and during a Priest's carreer.

If trauma from childhood abuse is a frequent environmental common denomenator, at least to a major extent, what then are the environmental common denominators that trigger the abusive behavior as an adult?

I don't' know the answer. I'm simply suggesting the Church put as much effort into the issue of "after Priesthood onset of abusive behavior" as they do preventing pedophiles from entering the Priesthood. Perhaps the preventions methods would be quite similar.

The trigger is that the victim who was traumatized by loss of control over the abuse finds some kind of resolve for that loss of control by victimizing someone else. That's an underlying aspect of all forms of abuse - loss of control and the incessant need for control. What complicates sexual abuse is the conflicting physical sensations that a victim may experience which can shape their sexuality to associate pleasure with abuse.

It's a messed up sickness, but in IMO to really tackle it, the focus should be on the control/power part of all abuse.

While the bolded above is most likely the most common denomenator among pedophiles, I don't see it being at least in and of itself, the "trigger" for onset of a behavior. Plenty with similar abuse in their past, never abuse. "Underlying aspect" yes. Trigger, maybe but I suspect there are multiple experiences that bring on the onset of the abusive behavior.

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Like the fox guarding the hen house? What do you suppose can be done to keep foxes from guarding hen houses without knowing they are foxes to begin with? I'd say it begins with therapy...every child victim of sexual abuse should receive thorough counseling until they are adults. That would a go a long way in preventing the cycle of abuse. As for the Catholic Church and The Boy Scouts - they can have a more thorough screening process that includes psychological evaluation of their candidates.

Here's something worth noting:

"Most pedophiles have scores of sexual contacts with children before coming to the attention of the cops," says Dr. Joyce Garber, a Monticello psychotherapist.

The question is, why? What makes a pedophile tick?

It's a complex question, say the experts. "We're only now coming out of the Stone Age and into the Iron Age in our understanding of this," says Peter Geller, a clinical social worker in Newburgh who has worked with sex offenders for 17 years.

What is known, though, is that most pedophiles were once victims of sexual abuse themselves.

"A pedophile often chooses a child who's the same age he was when his own abuse occurred," says Garber. "As the child grows older, the pedophile loses interest and seeks out another of the desired age."

By becoming the perpetrator, the former victim is able to re-enact his own abuse, this time with a feeling of control. (Like I stated earlier about power)

The vast majority of pedophiles are heterosexual males, according to several studies. Many have seemingly normal relationships with women and raise families.

Some choose jobs that allow them to work with children – not just for access, but to convince themselves and others that they're really good people, says Ken Lanning, a retired FBI special agent who spent 30 years investigating the sexual victimization of children.

"Take out the sex and they might be considered saints," says Lanning.

http://archive.recordonline.com/archive/20...12/bqpedoph.htm

Now we're making some progress in the discussion. "What makes a pedophile tick?" as noted above is a complicated question. The research above at least implies a correlation between the pedophile's childhood experience with abuse and their later abuse of children. If correct, it points to environmental factors as primary in the development of the deviance. However, it speaks little of what might trigger the onset of abusive behavior.

The idea of providing extensive therapy to abuse victims seems like a good preventative measure. Psychological screening of potential Priests is also a potentially effective countermeasure prior to and during a Priest's carreer.

If trauma from childhood abuse is a frequent environmental common denomenator, at least to a major extent, what then are the environmental common denominators that trigger the abusive behavior as an adult?

I don't' know the answer. I'm simply suggesting the Church put as much effort into the issue of "after Priesthood onset of abusive behavior" as they do preventing pedophiles from entering the Priesthood. Perhaps the preventions methods would be quite similar.

The trigger is that the victim who was traumatized by loss of control over the abuse finds some kind of resolve for that loss of control by victimizing someone else. That's an underlying aspect of all forms of abuse - loss of control and the incessant need for control. What complicates sexual abuse is the conflicting physical sensations that a victim may experience which can shape their sexuality to associate pleasure with abuse.

It's a messed up sickness, but in IMO to really tackle it, the focus should be on the control/power part of all abuse.

While the bolded above is most likely the most common denomenator among pedophiles, I don't see it being at least in and of itself, the "trigger" for onset of a behavior. Plenty with similar abuse in their past, never abuse. "Underlying aspect" yes. Trigger, maybe but I suspect there are multiple experiences that bring on the onset of the abusive behavior.

FBI Profilers talk about all the factors that go into what makes a serial murderer and a person can be exposed to all the external components that other serial killers shared in common, except they never go on to become a serial killer. The person's personality type, genetic factors, etc. If this brings this discussion full circle and you are wondering if there is something negative or dangerous about a person entering into the priesthood that we should pay attention to with regard to pedaphiles, I would emphatically say that nothing within the priesthood or being a Boy Scout Leader, coach, teacher, can be extracted or eliminated from the occupation that would somehow prevent future pedaphiles from acting out other than their accessability to children and their position of authority. Other than psychological evaulation and monitoring of such occupations under a careful eye, I don't think there is anything else that can be done to prevent another pedophile from seeking out those kinds of occupations.

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Also want to point out that pedophilia is more than just a behavior, but a psychosis. Whereas a heterosexual or even homosexual person has sexual desires, they do not act them out forceably onto another person - we call that rape. That's an important distinction between the sexual behavior of pedophiles from what is considered normal sexual behavior. In that sense, they have more in common with rapists than just someone with a sexual desire.

Exactly. And this goes to the point I was making earlier. I don't think that environmental factors turn a normal person into a rapist. Maybe a rapist doesn't start raping until he is an adult, but I don't think anyone would suggest if we just change the circumstances an adult finds himself in, he won't become a rapist. I make the distinction between adult and child because I do think that experiences in childhood could trigger this sort of thing. But priests don't become priests until adulthood, so to "address in a preventative way, the part of the process that occurs between ordination and getting caught" is moot, IMO. You can't "make" a pedophile out of a normal person. If he is a pedophile before he becomes a priest, then he will be a pedophile after he is ordained. If he is not, he won't "become" one because of the priesthood.

I guess for the lack of a better term, I'm trying to be significantly more "nuanced" than the responses I'm getting. I'm not using terms that suggest certain environments directly cause one to "turn into" a pedophile or "trigger" pedophile behavior. I'm saying there is an environmental element to the development of both the behavior and the underlying mental illness. Pedophilia develops over time. Not only do Pedophiles seek target rich environments but the target rich environments serve as a nurturing place for development to at least SOME extent.

I find it difficult to imagine the possibility of a male child raised away from other children, in a completely adult environment would ever develop sexual desires for other children. There's just no stimulus.

Pedophilia, like any deviant behavior and whether also a psycosis has an onset cycle. That onset cycle can begin at age 10, 13, 18, 25, 35 or 50 and so on. So it stands to reason that some pedophile Priests' onset occurs after they become Priests, while already in the target rich environment and already in a position of power over children.

I guess if nobody sees this as a separate issue from preventing men who are already pedophiles from entering the Catholic Priesthood and also separate from dealing with Priests who are caught, then there's no purpose for further discussion.

I'm not bashing Priests, or the Church or saying the Priesthood causes pedophilia or turns men into pedophiles, no matter how many people can't seem to comprehend the difference.

I'm religious. I don't believe and am not going to believe people are predestined to certain behavior without freedom to chose and without influence from their environment but that's not the subject of this thread. It's not the subject of the thread because nobody is going to learn anything from such a discussion except that opinions vary and are strongly held.

Okay. I just want to make sure that I'm understanding you. Are you saying that the traditions of the church are responsible for "triggering" or "onsetting" the psychosis? In other words, practices that have nothing to do with pedophilia coincidentally trigger it. If you think this, you are saying that the Church needs to change its traditions. I wonder what you think the traditions are. If you are talking about the fact that priests can't marry, then I don't think that has anything to do with the actual preisthood.

No, I'm not saying anything of the kind. I thought I went to pedantic extremes to say just the opposite. My meaning will be better understood if you take me literally rather than trying to read something more into it.

But you are suggesting that there have to be preventive measures put in place by the Church, as though this were something they could prevent. You asked if something about the priesthood creates these pedophiles, and my question is what about the priesthood could create pedophilia. And the question is Chicken or the Egg. I don't think I'm reading into what you are saying. I'm beginning to think that you mean that there seem to be a disproportionate number of pedophiles in the priesthood and how can the Church address this. I think that was what your original article was saying the Church was doing. If you have another suggestion, I'd like to hear it. This is not a challenge. I'm not defending the Church. I don't think that the Church creates pedophiles, but I'm not defending it.

See bold above. No, I didn't ask if something about hte priesthood creates these pedophiles, nor did I suggest it does. "Creates" is a word with meaning. I used no such word. The references to environmental influences were far less pointed or accusatory because I intended them to be so. I don't think there's something about the priesthood that creates pedophiles. I think some priests become pedophiles after they become priests, not because they become priests. And since some of the "becoming" occurs "after", focusing exclusively on preventing men who already ARE pedophiles from entering the Priesthood is insufficient.

Again, "after, therefore because of" is a logical fallacy in which I do not engage. Google "post hoc, ergo propter hoc" many explanations of this fallacy or see the link I gave earlier in the discussion.

I think you are arguing semantics. What came first, the chicken or the egg? What came first, the priest or the pedophile. What can the church do to prevent priests from becoming pedophiles. Again, what makes anyone become a pedophile, and why, if this is even possible, which I believe is not the case, would the priesthood be any different. I'm not saying it wouldn't. I think you are saying it would. So maybe you didn't use the word create, but you still haven't answered the question. What do you think it is about the priesthood that . . . . an already ordained non-pedophile to become a pedophile, and if you don't think it has anything to do with priesthood, why are you limiting the question to the priesthood? Again, this is not a challenge. You might have something there. But I can think of nothing to do with the priesthood that would . . . an already ordained non-pedophile priest to become a pedophile. Even the fact that he cannot get married would not . . . blah blah blah. IMO.

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Also want to point out that pedophilia is more than just a behavior, but a psychosis. Whereas a heterosexual or even homosexual person has sexual desires, they do not act them out forceably onto another person - we call that rape. That's an important distinction between the sexual behavior of pedophiles from what is considered normal sexual behavior. In that sense, they have more in common with rapists than just someone with a sexual desire.

Exactly. And this goes to the point I was making earlier. I don't think that environmental factors turn a normal person into a rapist. Maybe a rapist doesn't start raping until he is an adult, but I don't think anyone would suggest if we just change the circumstances an adult finds himself in, he won't become a rapist. I make the distinction between adult and child because I do think that experiences in childhood could trigger this sort of thing. But priests don't become priests until adulthood, so to "address in a preventative way, the part of the process that occurs between ordination and getting caught" is moot, IMO. You can't "make" a pedophile out of a normal person. If he is a pedophile before he becomes a priest, then he will be a pedophile after he is ordained. If he is not, he won't "become" one because of the priesthood.

I guess for the lack of a better term, I'm trying to be significantly more "nuanced" than the responses I'm getting. I'm not using terms that suggest certain environments directly cause one to "turn into" a pedophile or "trigger" pedophile behavior. I'm saying there is an environmental element to the development of both the behavior and the underlying mental illness. Pedophilia develops over time. Not only do Pedophiles seek target rich environments but the target rich environments serve as a nurturing place for development to at least SOME extent.

I find it difficult to imagine the possibility of a male child raised away from other children, in a completely adult environment would ever develop sexual desires for other children. There's just no stimulus.

Pedophilia, like any deviant behavior and whether also a psycosis has an onset cycle. That onset cycle can begin at age 10, 13, 18, 25, 35 or 50 and so on. So it stands to reason that some pedophile Priests' onset occurs after they become Priests, while already in the target rich environment and already in a position of power over children.

I guess if nobody sees this as a separate issue from preventing men who are already pedophiles from entering the Catholic Priesthood and also separate from dealing with Priests who are caught, then there's no purpose for further discussion.

I'm not bashing Priests, or the Church or saying the Priesthood causes pedophilia or turns men into pedophiles, no matter how many people can't seem to comprehend the difference.

I'm religious. I don't believe and am not going to believe people are predestined to certain behavior without freedom to chose and without influence from their environment but that's not the subject of this thread. It's not the subject of the thread because nobody is going to learn anything from such a discussion except that opinions vary and are strongly held.

Okay. I just want to make sure that I'm understanding you. Are you saying that the traditions of the church are responsible for "triggering" or "onsetting" the psychosis? In other words, practices that have nothing to do with pedophilia coincidentally trigger it. If you think this, you are saying that the Church needs to change its traditions. I wonder what you think the traditions are. If you are talking about the fact that priests can't marry, then I don't think that has anything to do with the actual preisthood.

No, I'm not saying anything of the kind. I thought I went to pedantic extremes to say just the opposite. My meaning will be better understood if you take me literally rather than trying to read something more into it.

But you are suggesting that there have to be preventive measures put in place by the Church, as though this were something they could prevent. You asked if something about the priesthood creates these pedophiles, and my question is what about the priesthood could create pedophilia. And the question is Chicken or the Egg. I don't think I'm reading into what you are saying. I'm beginning to think that you mean that there seem to be a disproportionate number of pedophiles in the priesthood and how can the Church address this. I think that was what your original article was saying the Church was doing. If you have another suggestion, I'd like to hear it. This is not a challenge. I'm not defending the Church. I don't think that the Church creates pedophiles, but I'm not defending it.

See bold above. No, I didn't ask if something about hte priesthood creates these pedophiles, nor did I suggest it does. "Creates" is a word with meaning. I used no such word. The references to environmental influences were far less pointed or accusatory because I intended them to be so. I don't think there's something about the priesthood that creates pedophiles. I think some priests become pedophiles after they become priests, not because they become priests. And since some of the "becoming" occurs "after", focusing exclusively on preventing men who already ARE pedophiles from entering the Priesthood is insufficient.

Again, "after, therefore because of" is a logical fallacy in which I do not engage. Google "post hoc, ergo propter hoc" many explanations of this fallacy or see the link I gave earlier in the discussion.

I think you are arguing semantics. What came first, the chicken or the egg? What came first, the priest or the pedophile. What can the church do to prevent priests from becoming pedophiles. Again, what makes anyone become a pedophile, and why, if this is even possible, which I believe is not the case, would the priesthood be any different. I'm not saying it wouldn't. I think you are saying it would. So maybe you didn't use the word create, but you still haven't answered the question. What do you think it is about the priesthood that . . . . an already ordained non-pedophile to become a pedophile, and if you don't think it has anything to do with priesthood, why are you limiting the question to the priesthood? Again, this is not a challenge. You might have something there. But I can think of nothing to do with the priesthood that would . . . an already ordained non-pedophile priest to become a pedophile. Even the fact that he cannot get married would not . . . blah blah blah. IMO.

The reason for the discussion is contained in the opening statement of the thread. I read the Pope's quoted headline yesterday.

I tend to agree with the other poster that there's nothing about the priesthood that could be changed, to help prevent Priest who are not pedophiles when they enter the Priesthood, from later becoming such, except careful monitoring by somebody in the hen house that isn't a fox. (There are plenty. It's just a metaphor.)

My point, repeated umpteen times is that the Church needs to address not just the issue of pedophiles entering the priesthood but the issue of Priests becoming pedophiles after entering the priesthood as well. I see them as two separate issues, perhaps with very similar solutions.

In a way, it's a little analogous to the illegal alien issue. Tightening the borders does nothing about the millions of illegal aliens already here, in that the problem exists on both sides of an "entry point".

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Not all Pedophiles have been abused in the past.

Some have had difficulties in the social environment, making children more "comfortable" to be around.

Some are more on a child's level intellectually.

Most of these people don't think they're doing anything morally wrong. Not terribly long ago (and it still happens today) young children were/are forced to marry older men.

When it comes to Priests (I think they get more publicity than all the other religions when it comes to this), well they usually enter into priesthood at a very young age, not being able to experience sexual or emotional relationships.

They may choose to become a Priest because they feel it's a power position (which we all know, pedophiles thrive on power)

Then I think it just escalates from there. An opportunity arrises, maybe over a period of time as the Priest gets to know the child, and has a "relationship" with him/her.

Could be genetic or emotional, could be a learned behavior, or something they are born with.

There are all sorts of possiblities.

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most pedofiles do it for several reasosn.////

being abused is only one and the stats are not valid on it...

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Pedophiles becomes priests, not the other way around.

A perfectly valid opinion. Do you care to share your basis for holding it?

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Pedophiles become priests, not the other way around.

I concur sister Jenn, but apparently our reasoning is faulty in the eyes of god :rofl:

They also become lawyers, parents, teachers, airplane pilots, marines, etc., etc., etc.

What is the carreer label of a pedophile before and/or when he becomes a pedophile?

Do all pedophiles make their defining carreer choice after they become pedophiles?

Please explain your opinions.

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Pedophiles become priests, not the other way around.

I concur sister Jenn, but apparently our reasoning is faulty in the eyes of god :rofl:

They also become lawyers, parents, teachers, airplane pilots, marines, etc., etc., etc.

What is the carreer label of a pedophile before and/or when he becomes a pedophile?

Do all pedophiles make their defining carreer choice after they become pedophiles?

Please explain your opinions.

I don't understand the bolded question.

Anyway, I'm not really sure what to say except that in my mind it is obvious that one does not become a pedophile, one is born that way. So with that assumption, it would be impossible for the priesthood to turn someone into a pedophile.

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