The Chicken or the Egg

[Chica Yeyé 41]

Pedophiles become priests, not the other way around.

I concur sister Jenn, but apparently our reasoning is faulty in the eyes of god

They also become lawyers, parents, teachers, airplane pilots, marines, etc., etc., etc.

What is the carreer label of a pedophile before and/or when he becomes a pedophile?

Do all pedophiles make their defining carreer choice after they become pedophiles?

Please explain your opinions.

I don't understand the bolded question.

Anyway, I'm not really sure what to say except that in my mind it is obvious that one does not become a pedophile, one is born that way. So with that assumption, it would be impossible for the priesthood to turn someone into a pedophile.

That is exactly my belief: people do not "become" pedophiles, just like you did not "become" heterosexual. I explained this previously to you pushbrk, and you did not agree. So let's agree to disagree.

[pushbrk 12,096]

Pedophiles become priests, not the other way around.

I concur sister Jenn, but apparently our reasoning is faulty in the eyes of god

They also become lawyers, parents, teachers, airplane pilots, marines, etc., etc., etc.

What is the carreer label of a pedophile before and/or when he becomes a pedophile?

Do all pedophiles make their defining carreer choice after they become pedophiles?

Please explain your opinions.

I don't understand the bolded question.

Anyway, I'm not really sure what to say except that in my mind it is obvious that one does not become a pedophile, one is born that way. So with that assumption, it would be impossible for the priesthood to turn someone into a pedophile.

That is exactly my belief: people do not "become" pedophiles, just like you did not "become" heterosexual. I explained this previously to you pushbrk, and you did not agree. So let's agree to disagree.

Up to you. This thread is intended as a discussion, not a survey. Perhaps you read the data about most pedophiles being sexually abused as children. How do you reconcile your "born that way" theory with that data?

Of course if you really think pedophiles are born that way, my earlier questions are moot to you.

[pushbrk 12,096]

Pedophiles become priests, not the other way around.

I concur sister Jenn, but apparently our reasoning is faulty in the eyes of god

They also become lawyers, parents, teachers, airplane pilots, marines, etc., etc., etc.

What is the carreer label of a pedophile before and/or when he becomes a pedophile?

Do all pedophiles make their defining carreer choice after they become pedophiles?

Please explain your opinions.

I don't understand the bolded question.

Anyway, I'm not really sure what to say except that in my mind it is obvious that one does not become a pedophile, one is born that way. So with that assumption, it would be impossible for the priesthood to turn someone into a pedophile.

Of course holding the opinion that pedophiles are "born that way" would render the question moot to you. Did you read the earlier posted data about most pedophiles being sexually abused as children? Does the data influence your thoughts in any way?

Again, I don't think the Priesthood turns men into pedophiles and never so much as implied that it does.

[Jenn! 918]

Pedophiles become priests, not the other way around.

I concur sister Jenn, but apparently our reasoning is faulty in the eyes of god

They also become lawyers, parents, teachers, airplane pilots, marines, etc., etc., etc.

What is the carreer label of a pedophile before and/or when he becomes a pedophile?

Do all pedophiles make their defining carreer choice after they become pedophiles?

Please explain your opinions.

I don't understand the bolded question.

Anyway, I'm not really sure what to say except that in my mind it is obvious that one does not become a pedophile, one is born that way. So with that assumption, it would be impossible for the priesthood to turn someone into a pedophile.

That is exactly my belief: people do not "become" pedophiles, just like you did not "become" heterosexual. I explained this previously to you pushbrk, and you did not agree. So let's agree to disagree.

Up to you. This thread is intended as a discussion, not a survey. Perhaps you read the data about most pedophiles being sexually abused as children. How do you reconcile your "born that way" theory with that data?

Of course if you really think pedophiles are born that way, my earlier questions are moot to you.

The same way that you would reconcile the fact that not every person who was sexually abused becomes a pedophile.

IOW, I would suggest that sexual abuse as a child is a trigger but not a cause. There are probably many many born pedophiles that suppress it for their entire lives.

[Chica Yeyé 41]

Pedophiles become priests, not the other way around.

I concur sister Jenn, but apparently our reasoning is faulty in the eyes of god

They also become lawyers, parents, teachers, airplane pilots, marines, etc., etc., etc.

What is the carreer label of a pedophile before and/or when he becomes a pedophile?

Do all pedophiles make their defining carreer choice after they become pedophiles?

Please explain your opinions.

I don't understand the bolded question.

Anyway, I'm not really sure what to say except that in my mind it is obvious that one does not become a pedophile, one is born that way. So with that assumption, it would be impossible for the priesthood to turn someone into a pedophile.

That is exactly my belief: people do not "become" pedophiles, just like you did not "become" heterosexual. I explained this previously to you pushbrk, and you did not agree. So let's agree to disagree.

Up to you. This thread is intended as a discussion, not a survey. Perhaps you read the data about most pedophiles being sexually abused as children. How do you reconcile your "born that way" theory with that data?

Of course if you really think pedophiles are born that way, my earlier questions are moot to you.

A discussion, you say, not a survey. OK.

There are many abused children who do not grow up to be pedophiles or abusers. Discuss.

There are many non-abused children who grow up to be pedophiles and/or sexual sadists. Discuss.

There can be as many pedophiles in the priesthood as in any other profession. Discuss.

Generalizations of any kind in such a complex topic as that of human sexuality, of which neither of us is an expert are, at best, wild guesses. And that includes my own opinions, as well as yours.

And indeed, my opinion is that one is born [insert orientation here], not converted... and what is moot to me are not your questions, which I find interesting and the reason why I responded to the thread in the first place. Now, your need for being right and condescending, that's beyond moot. Peace out.

[pushbrk 12,096]

Pedophiles become priests, not the other way around.

I concur sister Jenn, but apparently our reasoning is faulty in the eyes of god

They also become lawyers, parents, teachers, airplane pilots, marines, etc., etc., etc.

What is the carreer label of a pedophile before and/or when he becomes a pedophile?

Do all pedophiles make their defining carreer choice after they become pedophiles?

Please explain your opinions.

I don't understand the bolded question.

Anyway, I'm not really sure what to say except that in my mind it is obvious that one does not become a pedophile, one is born that way. So with that assumption, it would be impossible for the priesthood to turn someone into a pedophile.

That is exactly my belief: people do not "become" pedophiles, just like you did not "become" heterosexual. I explained this previously to you pushbrk, and you did not agree. So let's agree to disagree.

Up to you. This thread is intended as a discussion, not a survey. Perhaps you read the data about most pedophiles being sexually abused as children. How do you reconcile your "born that way" theory with that data?

Of course if you really think pedophiles are born that way, my earlier questions are moot to you.

The same way that you would reconcile the fact that not every person who was sexually abused becomes a pedophile.

IOW, I would suggest that sexual abuse as a child is a trigger but not a cause. There are probably many many born pedophiles that suppress it for their entire lives.

Is there any deviant behavior you would not think is a result of being "born that way"?

If a pedophile is born that way and some suppress it their entire lives, do you think there is something environmental that assists them to successfully do so? If so, so you think a change in environment would change their probability of successful suppression?

[Chica Yeyé 41]

Is there any deviant behavior you would not think is a result of being "born that way"?

If a pedophile is born that way and some suppress it their entire lives, do you think there is something environmental that assists them to successfully do so? If so, so you think a change in environment would change their probability of successful suppression?

Absolutely! Example: Racism, Homophobia, Misogynies, etc : not natural, but taught and learned. And quite the aberrant behaviors.

[sj5 4]

Not all Pedophiles have been abused in the past.

Some have had difficulties in the social environment, making children more "comfortable" to be around.

Some are more on a child's level intellectually.

Most of these people don't think they're doing anything morally wrong. Not terribly long ago (and it still happens today) young children were/are forced to marry older men.

When it comes to Priests (I think they get more publicity than all the other religions when it comes to this), well they usually enter into priesthood at a very young age, not being able to experience sexual or emotional relationships.

They may choose to become a Priest because they feel it's a power position (which we all know, pedophiles thrive on power)

Then I think it just escalates from there. An opportunity arrises, maybe over a period of time as the Priest gets to know the child, and has a "relationship" with him/her.

Could be genetic or emotional, could be a learned behavior, or something they are born with.

There are all sorts of possiblities.

Its their choices before they become a priest they knew already that they're not allowed to have sex and relationship.

[pushbrk 12,096]

If a pedophile is born that way and some suppress it their entire lives, do you think there is something environmental that assists them to successfully do so? If so, so you think a change in environment would change their probability of successful suppression?[/b]

Absolutely! Example: Racism, Homophobia, Misogynies, etc : not natural, but taught and learned. And quite the aberrant behaviors.

I agree. Would you be kind enough to take stab at the remaining question above as well?

Edited April 16, 2008 by pushbrk

[sj5 4]

Marc Dutroux wasn't a priest but he was gigalo in the past.

[Jenn! 918]

Is there any deviant behavior you would not think is a result of being "born that way"?

If a pedophile is born that way and some suppress it their entire lives, do you think there is something environmental that assists them to successfully do so? If so, so you think a change in environment would change their probability of successful suppression?

Agree with Len regarding deviant behaviors.

As for the second question, I really wish I knew! I'm sure there are psychologists who devote their entire lives to figuring out how to effectively suppress pedophiliac tendencies. I can tell you that I believe the priesthood is *not* an environment that would encourage suppression of pedophilia, IMO.

Edited April 16, 2008 by Jenn!

[sj5 4]

Is there any deviant behavior you would not think is a result of being "born that way"?

If a pedophile is born that way and some suppress it their entire lives, do you think there is something environmental that assists them to successfully do so? If so, so you think a change in environment would change their probability of successful suppression?

Absolutely! Example: Racism, Homophobia, Misogynies, etc : not natural, but taught and learned. And quite the aberrant behaviors.

Full story http://www.alternet.org/movies/43472/

"And all during the night, he's molesting my daughter -- not molesting, raping her! -- at 5 years old,'' wails Jyono in "Deliver Us From Evil.'' It's a devastating documentary about Oliver O'Grady, the notorious pedophile priest who sexually abused children, including a 9-month-old baby, in a string of Central California towns for 20 years -- and the Catholic bishops who moved him from parish to unsuspecting parish, allegedly covering up his crimes.

[Heracles 417]

Yes because only priests suffer from this illness. I wonder what percentage of child molesters are actually priests.

[pushbrk 12,096]

Is there any deviant behavior you would not think is a result of being "born that way"?

If a pedophile is born that way and some suppress it their entire lives, do you think there is something environmental that assists them to successfully do so? If so, so you think a change in environment would change their probability of successful suppression?

Agree with Len regarding deviant behaviors.

As for the second question, I really wish I knew! I'm sure there are psychologists who devote their entire lives to figuring out how to effectively suppress pedophiliac tendencies. I can tell you that I believe the priesthood is *not* an environment that would encourage suppression of pedophilia, IMO.

Your bold statement above is our common ground. I would suggest any person you might see as born a pedophile but capable of successfully suppressing the behavior would be less likely to find success (suppressing pedophile behavior) as a Priest. Since neither of us believe the Priesthood is the cause, is it possible that we agree that for certain people, the Priesthood would not be a good idea and that any actions the church takes to prevent those who have already displayed pedophile behavior would be insufficient to deal with those who were born that way but have suppressed the behavior all their days before entering the Priesthood.

In other words, if we through out the word "become" and focus on timing and circumstances of the onset of the behavior, we can both see the additional issue.

We don't need to agree on the cause to see there's a problem to solve.

Edited April 16, 2008 by pushbrk

[pushbrk 12,096]

Is there any deviant behavior you would not think is a result of being "born that way"?

If a pedophile is born that way and some suppress it their entire lives, do you think there is something environmental that assists them to successfully do so? If so, so you think a change in environment would change their probability of successful suppression?

Absolutely! Example: Racism, Homophobia, Misogynies, etc : not natural, but taught and learned. And quite the aberrant behaviors.

Full story http://www.alternet.org/movies/43472/

"And all during the night, he's molesting my daughter -- not molesting, raping her! -- at 5 years old,'' wails Jyono in "Deliver Us From Evil.'' It's a devastating documentary about Oliver O'Grady, the notorious pedophile priest who sexually abused children, including a 9-month-old baby, in a string of Central California towns for 20 years -- and the Catholic bishops who moved him from parish to unsuspecting parish, allegedly covering up his crimes.

Please don't attempt to turn this thread into one bashing the Catholic Church or any individual or group. That's not its subject or purpose.