Go from green card to G4 and back to green card?

[Rob 0]

Hello,

I have a complicated question and I wasn't sure where to post it so I decided to stick it in the K1 forum since that's how I sponsored my wife for her GC. First I wanted to thank everyone in advance for all the help with visa questions over the years. Thanks to this website, I was able to sponsor my wife (fiance at the time) for a K1 that was successfully AOS'ed into a GC. We've been happily married for a while now, and it's been a long time since we worried about visa issues. She recently got an offer to work for an international organization in NYC. She really wants to work there, but we're not sure what to do about her visa status. She has the option to give up her GC and convert to a G4 non-immigrant (diplomatic?) visa. As far as I can tell, the G4 visa has many benefits, such as not having to pay US income taxes, and she could bring her parents to the US very easily on a G4 visa. So here's my question: is it possible to go from a GC to a G4 visa and then later in life, get her GC back? Do we have to go through the whole GC sponsoring process again (I guess it would be K3 this time around?) in order to get her GC back? After the G4 expires (perhaps due to job loss, etc), would she have to leave the USA while I sponsored her again for a GC? I'm not sure how USCIS views this sort of thing and whether they would grant her another GC. Are there other potential problems with going from GC -> G4 -> GC that I'm not thinking of? We will be consulting a lawyer but I like to find out as much as possible beforehand (and to make sure what they tell me is correct!). Thanks very much!

[Casprd 167]

If she already has her green card, why give that up? Is it some requirement for this job? Some visa types will let you do an AOS from that visa. From what I have seen the G4 doesn't require family or company sponsorship to convert to a GC. I am not sure what the implications of giving up a GC to get the G4 first would be, especially if the person presumably doesn't ever leave the US in order to accomplish this. On a different note, be careful that there isn't an issue of income tax evasion. If it isn't an employment requirement then a case could be made that the change from a GC to a G4 and then back later was simply to avoid the US taxes. Not suggesting that this is the intention at all, but best to check on this now and not have a problem down the road.

[TracyTN 237]

I, too, don't understand this question. Why would a permanent resident abandon a green card to get a visa? I shouldn't think that a new job or trying to avoid paying income tax is a valid reason to give up your residency status.

Regardless, I'm not sure folks on an internet message board would be able to give you verbose answers for something so complicated (let alone an obscure visa type). I'd go with what the attorney says.

Also moving the thread from the K1 process forum to the general immigration discussion forum.

[sareliza22 1]

Rob -

No, do not forfeit your wife's LPR status for the G-4! Firstly, you cannot convert her status from LPR to G-4 via change of status or other. You would have to either affirmatively relinquish your LPR status or you would need to have it revoked via an IJ (immigration judge). Your wife would then have to leave the country in order to re-enter with a G4. I am quite puzzled as to why you would be exploring this option in the first place, especially since she has work authorization under her current LPR card. Furthermore, she would be eligible for her citizenship after 3 yrs of marriage to a USC, which would seem right around the corner (notwithstanding any criminal issues or inability to prove good moral character). I have actually been practicing immigration for a while now and have never heard of an LPR exploring this option. On a final note, when a G4 (or any beneficiary on G status) wants to adjust status, there is an additional form that must be filed with USCIS which would be an additional headache. You would have to file the whole I-130/485 packet all over again, incurring more costs for you. I hope that this helps.

[KayDeeCee 4,891]

I agree with the others. I am not sure why someone would give up their permanent residency to get a visa instead. I know nothing about a G4 visa, but it just seems odd to me. Another option here could be her applying for US citizenship. I guess only an immigration lawyer could help you out with this.

[TracyTN 237]

Good point from the earlier posters about getting her citizenship. Then the wait for bringing her parents over would simply be the time it takes to administratively process the paperwork (8-9 months).

[Rob 0]

Thanks everyone for your replies so far. We are approaching this very carefully and I completely agree it's a very bizarre situation so let me clarify a few things. First, she would be representing her country (Japan) essentially in a pseudo-diplomatic fashion, so her pursuing US citizenship at this time is probably not a good idea. It would hurt and/or eliminate her future career prospects as far as the Japanese Ministry of Foreign Affairs is concerned. She has Japanese friends who are already working on G4 visas and they seem to think that the G4 visa is somehow a great thing to have with lots of perks, although none of them ever had a green card. That is why we are exploring this G4 option and trying to find out as much as possible. I readily admit I don't know all the pros/cons of a G4 vs. green card. The two potential G4 advantages we know of are:

1) Not paying US income taxes since she would be in a pseudo-diplomatic role.

2) Being able to bring her parents to live in the US very easily (I heard she just needs to fill out one form and it can be approved in a matter of days by the US State Dept). Sponsoring her parents without her being a USC is impossible right? And she doesn't want to become a USC (yet) for the aforementioned reasons. So this is an important consideration especially since her parents are getting older and may need long term care at some point. Not only that, but they may want to help care for our young child.

From the replies so far, it sounds like for her to convert to a G4 is a complicated affair since she has to renounce her LPR and leave the country to re-enter on G4. But my biggest concern would be whether she could ever get her GC back if need be. It sounds like it may be possible, but I would want to be 100% sure about this if we were to go the G4 route. We are just weighing all the options. Thanks everyone!

[leahandlucas 15]

Reading your posts over and over again, its more like you's are both interested in avoiding the "tax" system, trying to find some type of easy loophole rather than be as interested in the visa.

Second of all...you CAN NOT "convert" a PERMANENT RESIDENT card and go back to a "visa"...in order for her to do this, she would have to LEAVE the U.S, relinquish her permanent residency....go wait it out in Japan for a visa interview which would in turn, raise some serious questions as to why being a permanent resident, leave the U.S. just to lose her permanent residence in order to return using a "G4" visa.

Doesn't make sense at all. And if its a "tax issue" that your wanting to avoid, read clearly the N-400 later on where a question clearly states if you have called yourself a "non resident" for tax purposes even when your a resident....especially if you's plan on staying in the U.S. in the long run...

Because RIGHT NOW and for a LONG TIME TO COME...Japan DEFINATELY IS NOT the place to be.

[Little_My 463]

As a person who has also looked into this issue a bit, this is what I know.

First, there are actually situations where one might not have an option of sticking with the GC. For example, United Nations staff positions require a US green card holder to give up the green card and take the G4 visa. Don't ask me why, or what the reasoning behind it is, but this is a fact. Same goes with some World Bank positions, ECLAC positions, etc. I believe it is because of a possible "conflict of interest" situation, where a citizen of another country would be working in an international organization such as these under a US legal permanent resident status. For diplomatic positions, relinquishing the green card is always a requirement. A diplomat, or a permanent representative of a foreign country, is always in the US on behalf of their home government. They cannot work under US issued work authorization, hence the G4 visa which is specifically for these types of positions and jobs.

Now, about converting from GC to G4 and back to GC - from what I have found out about this so far is that 1) yes, technically you can do it - she would officially give up her status as LPR, leave the country and re-enter as G4 2) you would have to re-file for the GC once her G4 status expires, and you would have to go through the entire process again, including paying the fees again 3) her citizenship clock will stop running and not only that, but start from scratch if / when you re-file for a new GC.

I doubt converting to G4 would hinder your chances for a new green card, assuming that her converting to the G4 is an actual requirement of the position. In that case it has nothing to do with tax evasion, since getting a G4 visa would be necessary for her position. The G4 is the fastest possible visa to get, processing it takes usually less than 10 business days in the foreign consulate. But yes, she would have to have it done in Japan, most likely. Her parents would be able to come - but, my understanding is that their legal status here would be dependent on her G4, so if she were to lose her job and lose the G4, her parents could not continue to stay here after that.

I am in no way an expert in this, but as a wife of a USC currently working at the UN, I have done some extensive research into this matter. My advice is that you should definitely consult an experienced lawyer in this matter, someone who knows the ins and outs of green cards AND G4 visa to really get an idea of what option makes most sense.

If the G4 is not a requirement of the position, then personally I would stick with the GC. And that is actually what I did. I postponed taking a paid position (what I could have gotten the G4 for) to file my AOS and wait for my GC, because in the long run it just makes more sense to me.

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

Reading your posts over and over again, its more like you's are both interested in avoiding the "tax" system, trying to find some type of easy loophole rather than be as interested in the visa.

Second of all...you CAN NOT "convert" a PERMANENT RESIDENT card and go back to a "visa"...in order for her to do this, she would have to LEAVE the U.S, relinquish her permanent residency....go wait it out in Japan for a visa interview which would in turn, raise some serious questions as to why being a permanent resident, leave the U.S. just to lose her permanent residence in order to return using a "G4" visa.

Doesn't make sense at all. And if its a "tax issue" that your wanting to avoid, read clearly the N-400 later on where a question clearly states if you have called yourself a "non resident" for tax purposes even when your a resident....especially if you's plan on staying in the U.S. in the long run...

Because RIGHT NOW and for a LONG TIME TO COME...Japan DEFINATELY IS NOT the place to be.

There is no need to rub in the fact that Japan had a natural disaster. As Mrs. Finland's post shows, there are reasons this would need to happen. I looked into this myself for my husband too. The OP is not trying to do something tricky - just that some jobs (and sweet jobs with perks at that, 5 weeks vacation starting immediately, etc) cannot hire GC holders, only G4 visa holders. All over their websites (look at the UN) are the warnings that GC holders may have to relinquish their status to get these jobs.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,235]

Given that Japan does not allow its citizens to hold another county's citizenship, I doubt that the O.P.'s wife is even interested in naturalization as a US citizen. Thus, the position in question may require her surrendering her GC, which should not have any negative impact on a future petition to regain permanent residence.

[Penguin_ie 5,985]

Getting a greencard again after a G4 should be no more difficult than the first time around. In fact, as the G4 allowsw for Adjustment of Status, she won't even need to leave the country when she changes back: http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/types/types_1280.html#9

Edited April 20, 2011 by Penguin_ie

[Rob 0]

Wow, this is great information. I really appreciate everyone sharing their experience. It sounds like some people have gone through the same process that we are about to embark on. We don't yet know if she will be forced to relinquish her GC, but it certainly is a possibility (the 'hiring/appointment' process takes a long time so we are still very early on and don't have much info yet). I'm relieved to hear that she should be able to remain in the US if she ever needs to convert back from G4 to GC (e.g. job loss, end-of-appointment, etc). One of my biggest worries would be that she would be forced out of the US for a long time while the whole G4->GC process goes on. With a young child to care for, this would not be a good situation. For those concerned about tax evasion, I have just learned that many international organizations do collect a form of taxes from their employees in an attempt to equalize pay between employees who do have to pay US income taxes and those who do not. So I'm not sure that converting to G4 really has any tax benefit at the end of the day.

[mjaskiew 8]

Reading your posts over and over again, its more like you's are both interested in avoiding the "tax" system, trying to find some type of easy loophole rather than be as interested in the visa.

Second of all...you CAN NOT "convert" a PERMANENT RESIDENT card and go back to a "visa"...in order for her to do this, she would have to LEAVE the U.S, relinquish her permanent residency....go wait it out in Japan for a visa interview which would in turn, raise some serious questions as to why being a permanent resident, leave the U.S. just to lose her permanent residence in order to return using a "G4" visa.

Doesn't make sense at all. And if its a "tax issue" that your wanting to avoid, read clearly the N-400 later on where a question clearly states if you have called yourself a "non resident" for tax purposes even when your a resident....especially if you's plan on staying in the U.S. in the long run...

Because RIGHT NOW and for a LONG TIME TO COME...Japan DEFINATELY IS NOT the place to be.

Very uncalled for! The OP explained that his wife cannot work on behalf of her country, being a permanent resident of another county at the same time. So I'm not sure where your "tax evasion" comments come from. This forum is to help each other, not to make unpleasant comments about their situation and Japan.

OP - looks like you questions were answered - good luck with your wife's new job, sounds like a very interesting oppotunity!

[Casprd 167]

Thanks everyone for your replies so far. We are approaching this very carefully and I completely agree it's a very bizarre situation so let me clarify a few things. First, she would be representing her country (Japan) essentially in a pseudo-diplomatic fashion, so her pursuing US citizenship at this time is probably not a good idea. It would hurt and/or eliminate her future career prospects as far as the Japanese Ministry of Foreign Affairs is concerned. She has Japanese friends who are already working on G4 visas and they seem to think that the G4 visa is somehow a great thing to have with lots of perks, although none of them ever had a green card. That is why we are exploring this G4 option and trying to find out as much as possible. I readily admit I don't know all the pros/cons of a G4 vs. green card. The two potential G4 advantages we know of are:

1) Not paying US income taxes since she would be in a pseudo-diplomatic role.

2) Being able to bring her parents to live in the US very easily (I heard she just needs to fill out one form and it can be approved in a matter of days by the US State Dept). Sponsoring her parents without her being a USC is impossible right? And she doesn't want to become a USC (yet) for the aforementioned reasons. So this is an important consideration especially since her parents are getting older and may need long term care at some point. Not only that, but they may want to help care for our young child.

From the replies so far, it sounds like for her to convert to a G4 is a complicated affair since she has to renounce her LPR and leave the country to re-enter on G4. But my biggest concern would be whether she could ever get her GC back if need be. It sounds like it may be possible, but I would want to be 100% sure about this if we were to go the G4 route. We are just weighing all the options. Thanks everyone!

Ok now I understand a little better. I think the potential employer is probably well versed in what needs to happen in order to change from a GC to a G4 visa so best bet would be to talk with the approrpiate people there. As for getting a green card later, as in my earlier post, the G4 visa does seem to allow this. Not sure of the implications of giving up the green card and then trying to get it later, but it has been done before. Since it is a requirement of the job to have the G4 visa it is easy to explain it when going for a later AOS and any tax evasion questions are a non issue. The G4 visa is entirely different than the normal spouse/fiance(e) and even the employment visas so I wouldn't be too concerned about the waiting period, but again, the potential employer has probably been through this before so their HR department or some other appropriate department can actually guide you on the best route to accomplish this.