Moving abroad after obtaining green card?

[DanKearney 0]

Greetings All,

It's been a long time since I was on Visa Journey. My wife arrived in the U.S. in May of 2007. She's got her green card and everything's been smooth sailing. Until now. . .

My wife's a citizen of the PRC. She's just been offered a good job in Hong Kong. I've been trying to get a job in HK or on the mainland for a while now with not much luck. It's tough to get an interview if you're not already there.

Anyway, our plan is for her to accept the job. I can get into HK with a dependent visa under her work visa. That's the foot in the door for me at least.

The big question is how this will affect her U.S. permanent residence status. We don't have a time frame for how long we'll stay in HK or China. For all I know it could be permanent. However, if/when the time comes to return to the U.S., I don't want to go through all the immigration process yet again.

I've looked at form I-131 for requesting a Re-entry Permit. It states that one must be in the U.S. at the time of appplication. That's no problem. However, knowing the USCIS's sloth in these matters, I doubt that the appoinment for biometrics required in the process would come up before we have to leave the U.S. for her to start the new job. (Why they need to do this again after one has already done it as part of the green card process I don't understand) The form instructions state that one can choose to leave the U.S. before the application is granted and request to pick up the approval at a U.S. consulate/embassy abroad. BUT, it states that it is possible the application might be denied if one leaves the U.S. before approval.

Anyone out there gone through this process have any input?

Also, the form instructions state that if one leaves the U.S. for less than one year, a re-entry permit is not needed and one just use's the green card for re-entry. Stretching this logic, can one simply return to the U.S. once a year to fulfill this "less than one year" requirement?

Cheers,

Dan K.

Black Hawk, CO

[payxibka 10,044]

google "maintaining permanent residency"

also read up on the returning resident visa

[HeatDeath 430]

Maintaining permanent residency in a situation like this is tricky: there are very few hard and fast rules, but CBP officers have an awful lot of leeway for interpretation when they are deciding to let you back in or not. Ultimately, they are the ones who admit you, or not.

The only hard and fast rules are that you need a reentry permit to stay out more than 1 year, you cannot stay out more than 2 years (without applying for a returning resident visa, which is not guaranteed), and staying out more than 6 months delays your eligibility for citizenship (which is probably not applicable for her, as taking US citizenship would requiring forfeiting the PRC citizenship, which it sounds like she would be very reluctant to do at this point anyways). The relatively few rules make it seem like maintaining permanent residence status is a piece of cake -

BUT

When you go to reenter the country, the CBP officer will look very closely at the intents, durations, and frequencies behind your trips out, and if they decide, on balance, that you are not actually living as a resident in the US (as permanent residents are expected to do), they have the authority to deny your entry, detain you, and bring you in front of an immigration judge to have your PR status revoked. A green card is not a multiple entry tourist visa, and PR status cannot be maintained simply by visiting the US for a few weeks every 6 months. It may work for a while, but eventually CBP will call you on it. If CBP's immigration judge rules that she left the country with the intent of residing abroad indefinitely, they may very well revoke her PR status upon an attempted re-entry.)

If you wish for her to retain her PR status, this is not a good plan. If you are planning for her to live in Hong Kong for an arbitrarily long period, it would be easier, less hassle (which is to say more in line with the intent of the writers of the immigration legislation) and far less risky for her to simply formally surrender her green card. This would effectively reset her immigration status and allow her to apply, without prejudice, for a spousal visa in several years when and if she is ready to settle in the US.

Edited March 12, 2010 by HeatDeath

[justashooter 430]

hey dan, she is damned close to citizenship if she arrived in US 5-07, and presumably got GC by 9-07. if i were you, i would wait out the US citizenship for 1 more year and then move. once she has citizenship, she can come back after any length of overseas stay. as for her surrendering PRC citizenship, i am not aware that this must occur for her to obtain US ciutizenship.

[HeatDeath 430]

hey dan, she is damned close to citizenship if she arrived in US 5-07, and presumably got GC by 9-07. if i were you, i would wait out the US citizenship for 1 more year and then move. once she has citizenship, she can come back after any length of overseas stay. as for her surrendering PRC citizenship, i am not aware that this must occur for her to obtain US ciutizenship.

Yeah, I didn't read the timelines. If she's within months of US citizenship, you should definitely try to get it. Once a citizen, she can stay out as long as she wants and come and go as she pleases.

Only problem is with the Chinese government. US law allows for dual citizenship. They don't care about her Chinese citizenship. Beijing, OTOH, does NOT allow Chinese citizens to hold dual citizenship with anybody, particularly not with the US, as far as I know. They're the ones who will revoke the PRC citizenship. The US couldn't care less, as a matter of policy.

[justashooter 430]

Yeah, I didn't read the timelines. If she's within months of US citizenship, you should definitely try to get it. Once a citizen, she can stay out as long as she wants and come and go as she pleases.

Only problem is with the Chinese government. US law allows for dual citizenship. They don't care about her Chinese citizenship. Beijing, OTOH, does NOT allow Chinese citizens to hold dual citizenship with anybody, particularly not with the US, as far as I know. They're the ones who will revoke the PRC citizenship. The US couldn't care less, as a matter of policy.

if this is true, then she would need a working visa to work in hong kong after obtaining USC. a sticky wicket, for sure.

[DanKearney 0]

Thanks everyone for the input. It helps a lot.

Seeking citizenship for her here won't work in this situation. She's only been in the U.S. since May 2007, so that's not possible until May 2012.

She's in China right now filling out the paperwork for a work visa for Hong Kong. They say it'll take at least one month for them to get it cleared.

Voluntarily surrendering her green card is an option I guess. I was hoping to avoid going through the whole process again if we decide to move back to the U.S. in a few years. Anyone here know if the process is any smoother/quicker for a person re-applying if they previously surrendered?

Cheers,

Dan K.

[HeatDeath 430]

Thanks everyone for the input. It helps a lot.

Seeking citizenship for her here won't work in this situation. She's only been in the U.S. since May 2007, so that's not possible until May 2012.

She's in China right now filling out the paperwork for a work visa for Hong Kong. They say it'll take at least one month for them to get it cleared.

Voluntarily surrendering her green card is an option I guess. I was hoping to avoid going through the whole process again if we decide to move back to the U.S. in a few years. Anyone here know if the process is any smoother/quicker for a person re-applying if they previously surrendered?

Cheers,

Dan K.

Read the Guide to Naturalization on www.uscis.gov

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/men...000b92ca60aRCRD

very carefully. She might be eligible for naturalization after only 3 years (which by my calculations would be May of this year), if she's been married to you and living in the US the whole time. That's what justashooter was alluding to earlier.

My understanding is that voluntarily surrendering the GC does make subsequent processes easier and smoother, but I have no direct experience with it.

Edited March 13, 2010 by HeatDeath

[Brother Hesekiel 2,235]

If she received her GC based on the marriage to you, she can become a US citizen 3 years afterward. Filing period starts 90 days before that and in many cases that's pretty much the time it takes to get the whole shabang done.

However, I sense that your wife is not ready to surrender her Chinese citizenship. If so, I'd use as much time as the law allows by applying for a reentry permit before you leave. The reentry permit in itself is a statement where the LPR tells USCIS that she will be out of the country for a predetermined amount of time, which is between one year and two years, without having any intentions to abandon her LPR status. This way, you guys actually have 2 years of wiggle room to find out if China is going to be permanently, or at least longer than 2 years, or if within that time period you might want to move back.

Surrendering anything at this stage of the journey is not the smartest thing to do.

[DanKearney 0]

Wow! I had no idea that it was possible to become naturalized after only three years. We've never discussed it because I didn't know about it. That would obviously solve one problem, but could possibly open up another with the hiring company in Hong Kong. She'll have to talk to the hiring company to see what they think about it.

I read the forms and instructions and went down the eligibility flow chart and it looks clear that we could send in the paper work right now.

It's about time for our nightly chat session, so we've got some things to discuss tonight.

Thanks everyone for some excellent and timely help!

Cheers,

Dan K.

[justashooter 430]

hth minimum is 3 years after receiving green, with 50% of that period actually in US. minimum of 18 months may take some over 3 years.

[VanessaTony 3,567]

http://www.800citizen.com/dualCitizenship.htm

She will most definitely lose her Chinese citizenship on obtaining US citizenship.

I think the best idea would be to voluntarily give up the greencard before she leaves and then when you decide it's time to come back, to DCF through China before you leave so that she has the greencard for her entry.

Good luck

[HeatDeath 430]

http://www.800citizen.com/dualCitizenship.htm

She will most definitely lose her Chinese citizenship on obtaining US citizenship.

I think the best idea would be to voluntarily give up the greencard before she leaves and then when you decide it's time to come back, to DCF through China before you leave so that she has the greencard for her entry.

Good luck

That was my first thought but I like what Bob pointed out better - she should get a reentry permit now. Then she can stay out for up to two years, and still return. If, at the end of two years, they find that they're perfectly happy in HK and have no intention of returning, then surrendering the GC is the best bet, because that will simplify getting a spousal visa via DCF when they eventually want to return. But she doesn't have to surrender the card until after the reentry permit expires 2+ years from now.

This keeps their options open the widest for the longest.

Edited March 13, 2010 by HeatDeath

[HeatDeath 430]

If they stay more than two years, the choice will be between two courses of action:

A ) surrender of the GC sometime around when the reentry permit expires, followed by DCF when and if they eventually decide to move back to the US.

B ) Don't surrender the GC, followed by attempting to get a "Returning Resident visa" when and if they eventually decide to move back to the US.

I have no idea which of these would work better, but if they get a reentry permit before moving to HK, it's a decision they don't have to worry about for at least 2 years.

I definitely would not surrender the GC right away, upon reflection. You might move there for three months, only to find that she's miserable in the new job and that decent housing is impossible to find. Who knows? Getting a reentry permit before formally moving out there, as I said, keeps all of your options open for the longest period of time. Good catch, Bob.

[christeen 966]

I also think that the re-entry permit is the better choice, then you have 2 years to see how things are progressing and take the best course of action at that time... It leaves some options open. I would not surrender the GC until the last minute...