sandinista!

Welcome to VJ.
Just joined yesterday and one of your first stops was this forum to bash MLK. You'll fit right in.

yeah, nope. flu shots keep pregnant women from getting the flu. and when they get the flu anyways when vaccinated, which can sometimes happen, they have milder cases with far less complications, like death and stuff. they also tend to be less contagious. getting a flu shot during pregnancy also has the lovely advantage of passing immunities to babies born during flu season who can't be vaccinated for flu yet.
similar principles with the other vaccines required for immigration. they're like, necessary, important, and life saving and stuff.

yeah, nope. flu shots keep pregnant women from getting the flu. and when they get the flu anyways when vaccinated, which can sometimes happen, they have milder cases with far less complications, like death and stuff. they also tend to be less contagious. getting a flu shot during pregnancy also has the lovely advantage of passing immunities to babies born during flu season who can't be vaccinated for flu yet.
similar principles with the other vaccines required for immigration. they're like, necessary, important, and life saving and stuff.

yeah, nope. flu shots keep pregnant women from getting the flu. and when they get the flu anyways when vaccinated, which can sometimes happen, they have milder cases with far less complications, like death and stuff. they also tend to be less contagious. getting a flu shot during pregnancy also has the lovely advantage of passing immunities to babies born during flu season who can't be vaccinated for flu yet.
similar principles with the other vaccines required for immigration. they're like, necessary, important, and life saving and stuff.

Interesting how a story on spousal rape derails into a thread on 9/11 and Benghazi. Anyone who doesn't see that spousal rape is part and parcel of domestic violence, and the psychological and social destruction that it reaps on a victim to the point where they have no self-esteem and few options, screw you. You haven't seen broken women, or maybe you have and that's why you excuse it away. You're idiots and I feel sorry for your wives for having married such dolts.

This right here is pretty spot on. There are loads of pretty women with low self esteem. No offense OP but I've found that the ones who remind others of their attractiveness over and over are usually the low self esteem type. A quick mention of your attractiveness in your original post would have sufficed.
That being said, I don't really feel like you've been scammed, OP. I feel like, as another poster mentioned, you married someone you didn't really know and found that you didn't particularly like, love, respect, or were attracted to the man your husband turned out to be. Obviously your husband turned out to be a bit of a freak and somewhat of a scumbag but that doesn't mean he set out to scam you. You probably shouldn't have bought him a car and made his life so comfortable if you didn't like or love him.

Take EVERY single opportunity in this process to submit as much proof as possible. I know many people say limit and just show samples of communication, pictures, etc., but my I130 had months and months of communication, the visa application had a little less correspondence between us, but the conversations I put in were really substantial, about hopes, dreams, plans, worries, daily boring stuff, family medical stuff that was hard to cope with. They are looking for substance in your documents. I also included correspondence between my husband and my family rather than just correspondence with me. Pictures, phone logs, texts, whatsapp chats, skype logs.
They didn't look at anything my husband brought, save for a photo book of our wedding, which was not submitted with the application. If you get a notice of intent to revoke or any other chance to sumit more information, submit it. But submit it in a very orderly fashion. Label everything and organize everything.
Good luck!

Technically they prey on women with low self-esteem and who are lonely, which can be old, young, ugly, pretty and so on. A good con artist borders on a psychologist and can read a woman like a book and pick out personality traits like this that make her easier to fraud and play off them.

Relationships are relationships. And cultural differences can be as vast and varied between American couples as they are between international couples. Fear about the sincerity of your "true love's" intentions is a red flag, regardless of what country your beloved comes from. Significant age gaps will always pose unique challenges, just like marrying into vastly different socio-economic status will pose challenges, or different cultures, or different beliefs about how to raise children. And wise warnings from "people who've been there" will always fall on deaf ears - whether those ears belong to "highly attractive" older American woman marrying a younger Moroccan man, or whether they belong to a 17 year girl from California who wants to marry her high school sweetheart who lives next door, as soon as they graduates high school. A person should be no more cautious marrying someone from a "high fraud" country, than they should marrying someone from the US.
And what is "high fraud" anyway? So a man marries a woman for a visa? Is that so much more fraudulent than a man who marries a woman because she's hot? Maybe both are fraud. But if marrying for the wrong reasons constitutes "fraud" - then all Americans should be on high alert before marrying other Americans.
Lets be real. "MENA" marriages fail for the same reasons so many other do - selfishness. It comes in many forms and many languages. If your relationship is real, and you can learn to be selfless, it will work out...and if its not, it won't. Just like millions and millions of US marriages. As an adult, if you cannot tell the truth and reality and depth of your own relationships, then you are as likely to have an unsuccessful marriage to someone from Norway, as you are someone from Morocco. What I'm trying to say is this is not some mysterious phenomenon in Moroccan men. In these forums its we call it "fraud" - in America its called "irreconcilable differences" - but its the same thing.
Rosearered - you sound like a nice enough woman. And it sounds like your relationship, like so many others (both international & U.S.) ended qith you feeling deceived. You're not the first. You and 50+% of all American marriages end with someone feeling like they were used, unloved, and betrayed. And its genuinely sad that your marriage wasn't mean to be. But it wasn't because he was from Morocco. It was because it didn't work out, for many reasons which none of us know anything about. And the only people who know the truth about your relationship is your and your ex. And if blaming it on him being Moroccan makes you feel better, thats fine - but that's not why it ended.
Relationships are relationships - love is love - and marriages either last or they don't. But it has nothing to do with where anyone is from. Sure, its so much more convenient to blame marriages-gone-wrong on external factors (like being Moroccan) than to take personal responsibility. But lets all grow up. The success or failure of a marriage has everything to do with the 2 people involved, and their ability to make a good decision in whom they marry, and their mutual ability to love and care for one another. End of story.

Of course the people posting "matter", and the validity and overall background of who is saying what should be addressed. Not all advice or postings are equal in helpfulness, regardless of tone. Rosesarered, you've been nothing but mostly polite here, but I'm just not seeing exactly what's supposed to be so informative or profound about the random opining of some Moroccan guy only you know, or the constant reminders in the thread that you are REALLY ATTRACTIVE so it's so totally shocking that you ended up in a crappy marriage for 7 years with a guy you bought a car for. But opinions on that will vary.
Cheers.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/415507-do-we-need-a-sticky-for-newbies/also, you really should apologize to Nigeriaorbust. racist, bigoted comments aren't allowed here, and won't go ignored when you ask for advice or feedback anywhere else here.

Of course the people posting "matter", and the validity and overall background of who is saying what should be addressed. Not all advice or postings are equal in helpfulness, regardless of tone. Rosesarered, you've been nothing but mostly polite here, but I'm just not seeing exactly what's supposed to be so informative or profound about the random opining of some Moroccan guy only you know, or the constant reminders in the thread that you are REALLY ATTRACTIVE so it's so totally shocking that you ended up in a crappy marriage for 7 years with a guy you bought a car for. But opinions on that will vary.
Cheers.

I'm going to guess that the only MENA men who think older women/younger men relationships are cool and legit are the ones in that sort of relationship. My husband doesn't buy them either. But then scams happen within similarly aged couples, too. All anyone can do is be cautious and look out for themselves.

I'll re-write some of what I said. As you see in the link that sandinista! posted earlier, I thought about starting a FAQ "landing page" for the MENA forum a few years back because, yes. This place can be harsh. Yes-- this place can be unsupportive. But, ultimately, the people who might come across on the tougher side of "tough love" rather than the loving side are more often than not completely on-point with their statements and criticisms. It's hard to hear, and it's frustrating that there is so much drama somewhere that most of us come for support, but usually the content of the negativity is pretty justifiable.
Why? Let's look at the facts. Morocco and the MENA region are high-fraud countries. I'm sure most people who have been here for awhile have stories. When my husband first came to the US, he went out to lunch with my mother at a Mediterranean deli and the two Moroccans behind the counter gently ribbed him in Darija about his "wife." It is so prevalent that men prey on older women for visas that they assumed he had done the same thing and was married to my mother (who is 29 years older).
The Consulate made a video that mentioned fraud as well. Check out this YouTube video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sjE4nuhSDw (whoops-- not this video-- maybe there is a part 2 somewhere; not sure what happened to it, but it was from the same meeting!!).
You can hear and read stories here, on other websites, etc. But-- after living in Morocco for 5 years, and after getting to know Morocco and Moroccans at that level (and I still have a lot to learn-- it's not a statement of arrogance!)-- this IS A CULTURAL PHENOMENON. It is not something that every Moroccan does. It's not every single relationship, but it happens, and it is more common than most people want to admit.
(As an aside, I've had many conversations with young Moroccan men who think that the women deserve it-- that in some ways, they are doing "sex tourism" or "mail order husbands" because older, unattractive, divorced women with kids cannot actually believe that someone so much younger and more attractive would actually fall in love with them. Of course, I find that attitude abhorrent... but it also exists!).
These fraudsters make everyone's situation harder.
- It makes legitimate relationships (note-- most of these fraudulent relationships feel 100% legitimate to the USC petitioners!!) harder to go through their paperwork/visas/green cards. In other words, when consular officers see so many instances of fraud, it becomes harder to prove legitimacy.
- It hurts people who really think they are in love/in a relationship
- It hurts the way that Americans/"the West" look at Morocco/MENA/Islam
The people to get angry at in this visa journey is not the consulate. It's not the US Government. It's not people on a message board-- it's fraudsters.
So-- then the question comes up... why do others feel like they have the right to "judge" my relationship harshly? Why do people assume my fiance/husband is only looking for a green card?
This is tricky. On the one hand, it's true: we don't "know." Nobody has a window into someone's intentions. But consider the following:
- Back when I was applying for a K1, I read somewhere that 60-70% of K1 applications are denied because of fraud.
- Looking back here, there are very, very, very few people in long-term marriages (say, beyond 5-6 years), particularly when you look at red-flag situations (specifically meeting online with a huge age gap where female is older than male). It happens at times, and there are threads where people have asked "who has made it work long-term," but it is a large percentage where things don't work, and often this happens either after greencard/citizenship, or when the MENA male cheats or falls in love with someone else. Unfortunately, I have no empirical statistics... but very convincing circumstantial/anecdotal threads here and elsewhere that support these statements.
We know that the consulate (in Morocco) has published what they see as the biggest red flags (http://morocco.usembassy.gov/visas/immigrant-visas/fiance-visas.html) that indicate a likely fraudulent relationship. Though I don't have statistics or research, I am confident that this list was created based on experience, research, and facts.
This all being said... look at the situation from an "oldtimer's" perspective (which I don't consider myself, by the way). Women with many, many red flags come here to the forum, proclaiming mad, perfect, mature love with limited communication and limited understanding of each others' cultural backgrounds. The case might be "textbook" fraud... and yet, the USC doesn't think critically beyond emotions, or seem to take this into consideration.
It's a funny place to be in, when you see one of these. As a fellow human being, what would YOU say that our responsibility is? To encourage blindly following one's heart? To ask hard, probing questions (which will doubtless be asked by the consular officer eventually as well, and also by others behind your back once you are IN the States, married) that might help illustrate possible stumbling blocks? Ignoring the lessons of experience and get excited while overlooking possible pitfalls?
It's tricky. Some will work-- some will defy the odds. Many will not.
...
BUT even beyond "is it fraud," which, sure, nobody here can know despite the indicators... in some ways, the bigger question is "are you ready for this, are you honest with yourself about what this relationship would take (and is your fiance/spouse), and is this truly the right decision for us?"
I think, to me, this is my bigger concern with many people who glibly post about how perfect their relationship is, and how confident they are that they can and will make the relationship work easily-- just as long as the silly Consular Officers don't keep us apart!! Usually, when someone talks a lot about how perfect the relationship is to others, it seems like they are trying to convince themselves of the fact and if they are truly comfortable, they are confident and secure enough not to have to talk about it all the time.
The visa isn't the end result, even in a non-fraudulent relationship. The visa is just the beginning of what can and is usually a very challenging journey.
50% of US marriages end in divorce anyway. When you add in cultural, religious, linguistic, and worldview differences-- love won't get you through this. No matter how much you CARE about each other, that won't solve some of these issues. What will is realism: acknowledgement and preparations for a challenge, an insane amount of flexibility for both partners, a commitment to honest and open communication with both partners, a willingness to be humble, a willingness to listen and learn. And, in some ways, above all, a willingness and readiness to acknowledge that you might not always understand all the layers in a situation and even with communication, there will be times where you have to sacrifice even if you don't think you should have to. Even if it feels wrong or you don't understand.
In many ways, this is important for all marriages, but even moreso with a cross-cultural one. And no matter what you talk about before hand to see what you might have to compromise on? You can't cover it all. You won't be able to.
So-- as someone who loves, embraces, and has jumped onto this journey... when someone comes to the forum whining about the process? Part of me want to say, "look-- this bureaucratic nonsense is NOTHING compared to the level and type of sacrifice you must be ready for when building a life with your partner."

Dear god, really? How about auto insurance? I've never had an accident, so by your "non-liberal logic" I shouldn't need it. and ditto for homeowners insurance, I guess? There you go folks, only purchase insurance if you are sure you'll need it, otherwise, somebody else will be benefiting at your expense.

Moronic. As if women somehow deserve to be raped if they don't carry a gun.
Militant gun owners are knobheads.

That is true. We have decided to postpone immigration until I feel more comfortable. We have been seeing each other for about 2 years and with every one around me questioning our reason for marrying, it is starting to get to me to me as well. As for the military comment, I felt as though you were attacking and criticizing relationship. It was his idea to join and he wants to do it because it is what I do and what he is interested in. Let me clarify. The military is easy aside from deployments and family separations. If you go to work, do your job and follow instructions, it is an easy job. They provide you for the most part with almost everything you need to be successful. Furthermore it is relatively easy to join and is almost a guaranteed job versus trolling the weak job marker as a new green card holder. I hope that clarifies things. I've been in the service for nearly 10 years and with all due respect ma'am, until you've done it you wouldn't understand why I say that. I stand by my comment that it is easy job - with reservations of course

Wa salaam
You specifically said, in the two threads that got shut down by mods, that you were asking about work and tourist visas because the actual visa that's appropriate to your situation takes too long. Visas don't work like Burger King, where you can have it your way. Unless he is really truly most definitely absolutely just visiting, which everything you've posted recently says that isn't the case, then get in line like everyone else is/has done.

Case in point. Nothing here has anything to do with what I actually posted. No, i didn't ridicule you for having doubts or paranoia. It does not sound promising, but that's hardly ridicule deserving. But it is flipping crazy to be talking about and actively planning immigration in regards to someone you expressed having those kinds of feelings about.

You set the tone for how your question was responded to. You. And no one else. Your responses to AmyWrites and Nigeriaorbust in your B2 thread, when they were being completely honest and helpful, and not the least bit rude, were APPALLING. That's the foot you started off on here, and what you were given back. The background info you've provided is all that people have to work with when answering your posts, and it shouts big red flags. Yes, it's great to hear feedback from people in similar situations with immigration and SOs from the same places. No, no one is obligated to sugarcoat or alter the way they word things to fit your personal whims or try to figure out your totally random hysterics here.

I am hardly negotiating a deal from Nigeria , if you could read you would see that naturalization is approved. Getting the homes in his name just before applying for the B2 shows that the evidence presented is being manufactured to support ties and the embassy will see right through that mess no matter how you try to spin it. If he doesn't intend on staying in the US while you are deployed then wait until that is over and then worry about then. I hope he reads your posts and see what you think of his mother, no better way to po a MENA man than disrespect his mother like. You better get married quickly because that is all the marriage will be if he reads that ... a quickie

A man with no real job suddenly getting title to 2 homes and then applying for a tourist visa if that doesn't scream fraud I am not sure what does. You are obviously trying to skirt around immigration laws and the embassy sees hundreds of cases like this a day. You then make the assumption that you will just be granted an extra 6 months for your tourist visa. Do you really think they will bend all the rules just because it is the fairy tale path you think is best. If they do grant him a visa it may be a single visa 1 month visa not a multi entry multi year visa. If he shows up at the border with all the paperwork to file for an I130 in his luggage he may not make it into the US. If you are in the military I would stop chasing fishy paths , you don't want to marry someone with fraud markers in their file which he may have if you show up with manufactured ties to home.

Nor do you, he-beast. Stop pandering to the lower classes.

You set the tone for how your question was responded to. You. And no one else. Your responses to AmyWrites and Nigeriaorbust in your B2 thread, when they were being completely honest and helpful, and not the least bit rude, were APPALLING. That's the foot you started off on here, and what you were given back. The background info you've provided is all that people have to work with when answering your posts, and it shouts big red flags. Yes, it's great to hear feedback from people in similar situations with immigration and SOs from the same places. No, no one is obligated to sugarcoat or alter the way they word things to fit your personal whims or try to figure out your totally random hysterics here.

If you have no intent to immigrate, why do you need a B2 for six months AND an extension? Plenty, in fact most, couples make sure their documents are in order even if they're not physically together. Sounds fishy.

He'll probably get denied anyway, being from a high fraud country and all. Better is K-1. They're not stupid, if you lie about your intentions they WILL find out. There is little to no "mercy" with immigration processes.
Actually, forget the K-1, I'd go for CR1 right now.