MyLifeForYou

25 minutes ago, Boiler said:

Obviously this does happen, Macron anyone. But that is a case where eyeborows may be raised but there are no cultural issues.

 

Seems to happen a lot on here mainly in circumstances where there are.

Yes, Macron! My fiancé was so excited when their love story came to light in the press. He felt we were somehow vindicated by that. I laughed and told him, I sure hope I look as good as she does when I am her age! 

26 minutes ago, N-o-l-a said:

 

I disagree with this-  In fact, I think his response sounds fine and yours would sound weird, especially from someone who has English as a second language or is educated.  Personally, I speak more like him than you and I'm a native American.

 

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It is likely the age thing and the past K1.  As a parent myself of a child 21 years younger than me, I'd have trouble believing the relationship.  

 

Even if you marry, I think there are still going to be issues with believing that your SO is genuine in his interest or will remain so in the future.  The chances of him moving to America and finding a 20 year old Muslim girl are high.  The COs are not naive nor are they stupid.

Thank you for your point on the language issue. My fiancé does not sound like a typical American when he speaks English. He is multilingual and bases his English off his stronger French skills, so many times I can tell he is using French syntax as a guide to form his English sentences and they sound quaint or old fashioned at times. Being translators, we laugh about this and poke fun at each other all the time.

As for the the issue of finding a younger girl later on in the future - if you only knew how many times I have brought this up to him, especially at the beginning of our relationship. We have hashed that out more times that I care to remember. After about a year of that subject, we finally stopped talking about it and just moved on with our lives. I have talked to his mother and sister about it while I was in Beirut; they both just shake their heads and smile. But he loves you, they say. His family seems genuinely happy to see their son/brother in a good place in his life and don't question it past there. 

37 minutes ago, EmmNM said:

Do FOIA requests really work? I can't find a post where someone got an answer. I can only find posts asking how they do it. PLEASE keep us posted on your journey.

I am not counting on finding out a lot, just using the FOIA option as a last resort to possibly find even the most remote piece of information that can shed light on our denial. The CEAC Website still says we are in AP. The only reason I even knew our petition was denied is because tomorrow is the two-year anniversary of the embassy interview and I emailed them to ask if there was any update, since it had been two years now with no news. It could be one thing - it could be ten things. Anything I can find out at this stage will be helpful. And yes, I will definitely post something when I hear back on the FOIA request. 

28 minutes ago, Ontarkie said:

Honestly 1 visit when you got married,  1 when he had his interview,  and 2 more in 2017. If you get married on your next visit and start the CR1 I can see it being denied again.

 

You have way too many red flags. You need many more visits and for a substantial amount of time to get through this. Only 4 visits in 2 years is not good when the cards are stacked against you. How long where each of these visits?

I agree with you. I don't think a visit or two a year is going to cut it. Each visit was 10-12 days; nothing long-term or really substantial. We are going to have to come up with a much more involved plan in order for this to work. 

29 minutes ago, Lemonslice said:

A lot of translators now work remotely, living in different time zones even being an advantage on some projects. Have you thought about spending a few months with your fiancé? Nothing live face time and living together to show you're in a (marital) relationship and not only penpals, or looking for immigration benefits.

That is true, it is a great profession for working remotely. I personally would love to live in Beirut. I adore the city. My daughter is the only reason I haven't just picked up and moved out of the country. Trying to secure a passport for her having her father in another country and getting a court order allowing me to take her out of the country is a huge hurdle. Otherwise, yes, absolutely, I would have been in Beirut a long time ago. 

7 hours ago, Coco8 said:

I don't buy this "too rehearsed during the interview" idea people are putting forward. Some of the questions seem to be too out there to be rehearsed. I'd understand if you rehearsed too much  "how did you meet?" and other basic questions, but rehearsing an answer about a house she bought 10 years ago and had to sell during the 2008 bubble? That is some rehearsing!!! 

 

 

 

 

Thank you! That is what I was trying to explain earlier. There is no way we would have ever known that the CO would bring this kind of stuff up. It was just by chance that my fiancé even knew about that whole house flipping incident. In short - the questions the CO asked during the interview were ones that could never be rehearsed. You either knew about the situations or not. They were totally random events and facts from my past. 

2 minutes ago, dentsflogged said:

I don't pretend to know a lot (or anything!) about Arab cultures or the Muslim religion and practices, but I asked one of my workmates whose family is from Turkey & who is a practicing Muslim, and he said that its literally unheard of  as far as he knows that any man would marry an older woman who is divorced and has a child with her ex husband.   So there's 3 red flags right there, I'd imagine. 

Yes, we had multiple red flags going in and we were aware of that. We did our best and now we just need to move ahead. This is truly a journey and you have to just work through it. 

15 minutes ago, LizM said:

It seems that you've gotten some good answers to your questions. As to why the case was in AP, apart from the factors already mentioned, how about the amount of face time? The timeline is not immediately clear.

 

You mentioned you had been to Beirut twice. You also wrote that you were present at his interview, so I'm assuming that was one of those two trips. Is that correct? Unless there are other trips not mentioned, it sounds like there was one trip were you first met, and then a second at the time of the interview. If this is true then I believe that must've certainly had impact on the case.

 

Additionally, I'm curious to know if this means you have not seen each other since the time of the interview?

Thank you for the question LizM. I am sorry for not stating this earlier, but the two visits to Lebanon I had referred to were our first meeting and then the second visit was at the time of his interview. Both took place in 2016. Then I visited in March of 2017 and again this last Christmas (2017). We had all the documentation of those visits, but was never asked to submit any new evidence. 

And yes, I have gotten some great answers to my questions. Thank you all for helping us out. 

25 minutes ago, Amadia said:

Hi OP,

 

I'm sorry you had to endure this denial. I can tell you that your case sounds very similar to one of the members who filed during my time in 2015 - older US female citizen married to a Muslim guy who was 27 yrs younger than she was. The officer had him in constant interrogation without her being present (she traveled to Turkey to attend the interview with him). Eventually, they outright denied her spouse the visa to come to America and she was awaiting the embassy to send the packet back to USCIS. The officer gave them no reason why but he did make it a point to tell her briefly before he denied the petition for her spouse that it was severely unnatural for a 'boy' to marry a grown woman and be in love.

She waited several months before following up with USCIS about her packet and was told that the file came back 1 month after the interview in Turkey. 

 

She decided to get an attorney to fight the case about her spouses denial. I have no idea what has happened to them since then but I knew it stressed her out being away from her husband.

 

Like everyone else suggested, wait until you get the reply explaining the reason for denial and so you will get the chance to respond accordingly.

Thank you for sharing this story. Yes, the case you referenced sounds similar to our situation. We both knew we had an uphill battle ahead of us when we started this whole process, as I had read many of the difficult stories here on Visa Journey before filing the petition and was aware that the age/religion differences, plus other factors, would all be hurdles to overcome.  I had mentioned earlier that I filed a FOIA request in hopes of finding out any additional information. I will definitely follow your and everyone's advice on here about knowing the reasons for the denial before moving forward. 

14 minutes ago, TNJ17 said:

Like others have said, the age and religion difference are most likely why it was denied. There really is no telling why it took two years. Some people are in AP for days, others weeks, months, yours took years. I don’t mean to accuse you or your fiancé of hiding information but you leave your interview knowing why you were denied. So maybe he’s hiding something because if they don’t believe your relationship is bonafide, they will tell you at your interview. 

 

Also, it is not surprising that they know about your financial issues in the past. They run an extensive background check on both parties, yes even the US citizen. USCIS knows everything about your life, probably more than you do. They ask those questions at interviews to find out if the relationship is bonafide. 

 

I would say say that the fact that your fiancé knew the answer to every question was what made the CO think he was rehearsed. Also, if you only had two visits and no visits while you were in AP is a red flag too because you were in AP for two years, in the eyes of USCIS, any real couple would have made visits during those two years. That’s too long to go without seeing your significant other. 

 

You just really have a lot of red flags and I would say if your relationship really is bonafide and you still want to be together, gather all you need and go over there or any other country and get married. You won’t hear back from USCIS, and if you do it will take months maybe years. You will just be wasting time. Go and marry and file to withdraw the K1 and start the paperwork for the CR1 ASAP because you are now looking at another two years probably before visa in hand. With all the red flags you have, you’re gonna need a lot of visits to get the CR1 approved so plan around that. Unfortunately this is gonna be pricey and take a long time for you so good luck. 

Thank you TNJ17 for your advice. My original question was about the timing on the filing of the I-130 with regard to the denial of the K-1 petition. I have one question that has come up after reading all of the advice: How do I "withdraw" the K-1 Petition? Is there a specific form and if so, do I file it simultaneously with the I-130 or do I have to file it separately. Thank you. 

10 minutes ago, C&AH said:

Here is an article that might be helpful. Read through carefully. It has some very good information.

https://mypathtocitizenship.com/wife-was-denied-k-1-visa-should-we-apply-for-cr-1-visa-after-getting-married/

 

Thank you kindly for sharing this with us. I appreciate your time and advice. I look forward to reading this in depth.

1 minute ago, Ash.1101 said:

Did either of you inquire about your case over the course of the 2 years?  I know some people will sit back and let everything take its course, but 2 years is a long time.
 

Yes, we both did, via email and he went in person to the embassy. We have been told repeatedly that the case was still under review and they would get in touch with us if they needed anything. What I don't understand is why two years? If they didn't believe us from the get-go, why not just deny us straight out. Why wait so long and keep the file pending. I work for the government and our goal is to move cases and get them closed. Not sure why they would let this hang around for two years and then just deny. I have put in a request pursuant to FOIA and just hope I can glean the least bit of information. 

9 minutes ago, Ash.1101 said:

I would say the age part is big thing, but I also noticed you said that you sent engagement party pictures. Some CO's can take large engagement parties as being akin to a wedding. Meaning they view you too married for a K-1 but not married enough for a CR-1.

But ya'll have different religion, 20 year age difference with the woman being older, an engagement party, and they seemed to know way more than they should have unless you provided it (such as the investment with a friend).

When the above poster says the thing about answering everything question perfectly, that's not always expected. If he answered questions without dropping a beat, then they actually question it a bit. Green Card interviewers have done interviews and actually say they expect the partner to mess up or be confused for a second or forget something, because that's how a normal spouse would react. Answering everything perfectly means your fiance is either a man above men or was coached prior to answer everything perfectly.

Example: I just asked my husband what my favorite side to a dinner is. He said Green beans, and I say no, He says Mashed Potatoes and I say YES! And he's like oh okay I figured it was either one, Green beans is like a close second right? And I tell him yes. This guy knows I buy mashed potatoes A LOT. But was still confused. 


Also, When your fiance left the consulate after the interview he should have recieved a 221g form. On that form, was anything checked? Was anything mentioned about a drop off location or them recommending sending in more proof?

These are all great points. It is so helpful for me to hear all of your views and ideas and is extremely enlightening. 

We have no idea how the CO got a hold of some of the information she had - like the example of the investment property. I ended up losing that house in the big housing bubble of 2008 - seven years before I met my fiancé; yet, the CO knew about it and asked my fiancé if he "knew I had money problems in the past and had lost a house." He remembered me telling him about that investment house that I had purchased and tried to flip, and so he told the CO what he knew about it. He said, "Yes, I know she had bought an old 1920s house a while back and had put a lot of money into restoring it and then lost it." The CO was surprised he knew that. It is just because we have spent hours talking about our lives. It wasn't so much that he "answered every question perfectly" - it was that he knew all about me and my past, my situations, the issues surrounding my ex-husband and his deportation. He just knew all about my life. He said he had the feeling that the CO wanted to catch him "not knowing" something about me, so as to say we didn't really have a bona fide relationship because there were aspects about me he was unaware of. The CO didn't have a "list of questions," per se, all of which he answered correctly. She would throw something out to him and he would explain it - tell her the story, how it happened, why it happened - all a result of hours and hours of talking and getting to know each other. 

As for the 221g form. It had the box checked: Nothing is needed at this time. The Consulate will get back with you if anything is needed. Your case is under pending review. 

Thank you so much for your questions and insight. 

4 minutes ago, EM_Vandaveer said:

Because it was in AP. Cases can be in AP for years sometimes and still be approved. In this case, they denied it.

Yes, we had seen a very few other couples in a long AP - and lucky for them, the wait was worth it and they were eventually approved. Not sure why the two-year wait; we never received any type of communication from the consulate asking for anything. My fiancé did receive a random phone call in November of 2017 (about 18 months into AP) and said a man on the other line said he was from the consulate and wanted to know "if we were still together." My fiancé told him we were. The man on the other line said, "OK, thank you, we will get your petition wrapped up as soon as possible," and hung up. That was the only thing we ever heard from them in the entire two years we were in AP. 

12 minutes ago, Mmagic said:

I am just wondering, beside all the grilling he took from the Counselor asking all the questions about both of you, did she ask him or tell him anything in regards to his background check or Police report? Did he mention it to you at all? 

No. He said the CO never asked him a thing about himself. He is so young and has never had contact with police or any type of trouble. No questions about his background, police report, medical, nothing. It was all very intricate and detailed questions about me and my life, my past. Absolutely nothing about him. The only thing was the CO kept asking him why he wanted to be with me - why me? Why did it have to be me? He said the CO asked that at least three times. 

1 minute ago, adil-rafa said:

agree

you will not get a notice and it will die

as our K1 it is more than likely the age

disagree with those that say do not marry till u know as we never got a writen reason

go and marry / financee will have to provide a criminal report to marry along with medical exam so u will have the answer to issues 

Thank you so much for your advice; I have read your story and admire your amazing strength! Thank you for the tip on the criminal report and medical exam. I need all the advice I can get at this point. 

1 minute ago, geowrian said:

Correct. They stopped that practice years ago. Long story cut short: it avoids a fraud marker turning into a misrepresentation/fraud finding (and avoids a waiver being needed).

No, you don't need to wait for the petition to die to marry and file an I-130. You can include a letter in the I-130 filing stating that you want to withdraw the I-129F just in case.

 

Before marrying and filing, I do suggest finding out more about why precisely it was denied. I do think the points raised above about the red flags are important, but those red flags can also be overcome with sufficient relationship evidence. Moving forward, having a strong case and presenting it well will be crucial to your success.

You can file a FOIA as well to attempt to obtain information on why the petition was sent back with a recommendation for revocation. However, this is beyond my level of comfort to describe how to do so, sorry. There are other VJ members who have had a refused K-1 and done this, so hopefully they can chime in if this was worth pursuing and the process to do so.

 

Best wishes.

Thank you so much for the great advice. I have filed a FOIA request before (in my ex-husband's case) and so thankfully I am familiar with that process. I appreciate the information about the "petition dying" and not needing to wait any specific time period. That is very helpful. Thank you again for your advice and best wishes! 

I am a translator/interpreter for the US government and he is an aspiring Arabic/French/English translator/interpreter as well. We met on a translation website where interpreters and translators all over the world collaborate and ask each other questions and advice on legal, medical, technical terminology. He asked me a question, I responded - ended up exchanging Skype information so we could talk about it and became friends and then it just moved on from there. I went to Beirut to meet him about a year after we began speaking over Skype.  

Just now, MyLifeForYou said:

4 minutes ago, Boiler said:

How did you meet?

 

I am a translator/interpreter for the US government and he is an aspiring Arabic/French/English translator/interpreter as well. We met on a translation website where interpreters and translators all over the world collaborate and ask each other questions and advice on legal, medical, technical terminology. He asked me a question, I responded - ended up exchanging Skype information so we could talk about it and became friends and then it just moved on from there. I went to Beirut to meet him about a year after we began speaking over Skype.  

2 minutes ago, geowrian said:

Sounds like the I-129F was (or is being) sent back to USCIS. This only happens if they believe it is invalid...usually because they believe it's not a bona fide relationship.

Once returned to USCIS, it will sit to expire and die. Ignore the part about USCIS reviewing it for revocation, NOIR, etc. Current policy is to let it to expire. They will not issue a NOIR stating why they believe the I-129F is invalid.

Thank you for the great advice - this is very helpful. So, it is not standard policy to issue an NOIR stating why they believe the 1-129F is invalid? Wow. OK, well, that will make it a bit more of a challenge. Do we need to wait for the petition to "die" before getting married and filing the I-130? I just want to make sure I don't file too soon and ruin our chances with an I-130.

Thank you!

2 minutes ago, Ben&Zian said:

 

The bolded above in your message is probably the main cause. Different religions, and him being that much younger, which I assume is uncommon in his country. The embassy is well aware to the local traditions/customs and such. As to "he knew the answer to each question perfectly", for me, if you yourself weren't physically in the interview with him, it's simply him telling you his side of the story but not getting the other side from the CO so I'd throw that out as proven information. Doubting your previous K-1 had any affect on this at all, that would have occurred during the USCIS stage.

 

Could be also perhaps short relationship? Only two visits? I'm not familiar with how tough the embassy in Beirut is; but if he was in the literally for 2 hours, they never believed from the beginning I doubt that it was a real relationship. The CO's can generally make a decision before the interview itself even starts from reviewing the original petition. And again for some 2 hours in an interview sounds like they were digging some info out of him about something. Is that all there was to it? No clue myself that's what the CO's are trained to look for. 

 

If it was the only issue, the bolded above again, then sounds like you'll need a lot more face time in person because again like you said, you need to prove them wrong. And really only way to show it is more and more visits I would think.

Your advice and point of view is very helpful, thank you so much for bringing those topics up. I agree with your view on the long, difficult interview. They asked him questions about my ex-husband, about his felony conviction, about my daughter, what school she goes to, details about my profession - and all of that goes to exactly what you said about them doubting the validity of our relationship from the beginning. You are 100% right about that.

Does anyone know how long it will take for the NOI to reach me? A year? 18 months? Just trying to get an idea. I am planning a trip to Beirut this fall; it would be great to have it before then, but not holding my breath.

Thank you! 

12 minutes ago, missileman said:

I agree with @Ben&Zian.  You can marry whenever you want, but to do so without knowing why the visa was denied is unwise.  Example:  If your fiance is not legally free to marry, or if he is inadmissible for some reason, marrying would not solve the issue.

Thank you missileman for your advice, we appreciate your time. I do agree with your comment - and believe it is wise to wait until we know why the visa was denied. In our heart we feel that the consular officer had trouble believing that our relationship is bona fide due to our many differences. I will be anxious to receive the NOI and hopefully find out what the matter was.

10 minutes ago, Sunnyland said:

Before you marry, try to find out whatever the reason for the denial is. What happened at his interview? 

Thank you for your advice, we appreciate your time and help. I just posted a narrative about our interview and what transpired - I believe there are doubts about our intentions as a couple due to age difference, religious differences, and the fact that I was granted a K-1 visa for my ex-husband in 2004. 

I believe, like you say, it is necessary to find out what the reason for denial was before moving forward. Thank you again for your advice. 

Thank you so

3 minutes ago, Ben&Zian said:

You can go whenever you like and marry. Like you have stated, you have to overcome the reason for denial. They don't need to ask for any paperwork after the initial interview. Without knowing anything about your case, do you have any indicators from the interview itself or background issues of your fiance perhaps that oculd have let to the long AP and ultimate denial?

Thank you so much for the advice, we appreciate your time. 

As for your questions about the interview, it was a tough one. I was there outside the embassy in Beirut with his family during the interview, but was not let in the building. My fiancé took my passport inside with him and let the interviewer know I was outside in case they wanted to speak with me. The interview was done in a side room and took over two hours. We knew it was going to be a difficult sell because I am the woman, of Christian faith, 20 years older than my fiancé. He is Muslim and has never been married. Also, 15 years ago I petitioned for and was granted a K-1 for my ex-husband, who I have an 11 year old daughter with. He was deported in 2010 back to his country of origin due to a felony conviction. I have been to Beirut twice, have met my fiancé's entire family, submitted photos of us together with the extended family at an engagement party/dinner, have a  custom engagement ring purchased in Beirut by my fiancé, and I am a professional here in the U.S. and easily meet the financial criteria. The consular officer dogged him during the interview repeatedly as to why we would want to be together, why me, why him - she was upset that he knew all the answers to every question she had about me. The interviewer even knew about an investment property that I had co-owned with a family member a few years earlier and interrogated him about that. He knew every answer to everything, because we are very close - and he said she would get upset every time he had the exact answer for every question she posed. I believe they have doubts about us as a real couple, and therefore we will proceed with the next step - as we had a feeling this could very possibly happen.

Dear Visa Journey Community:

My fiancé''s K-1 Visa application at the Beirut Embassy was denied today after two solid years in AP. We received an email that states as follows:

Thank you for your email. Section 221(g) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) prohibits a consular officer from issuing a visa to an alien if the consular officer has reason to believe that the alien is ineligible.  Based on indications that the beneficiary did not meet the visa issuance criteria, Mr. XXX's  visa was denied and all the supporting documents were sent back to U. S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) for possible revocation.  If USCIS determines that the information we are providing constitutes sufficient foundation for initiating revocation proceedings, the petitioner will be sent a notice of intent to revoke that includes a statement of the facts and evidence and she will have the opportunity to respond. At this time, we are unable to provide any further detail.

We were never asked for any documents or follow-up, so still not sure why we were denied. 

My question for the experts is this: When will I be free to travel to Lebanon and marry? Do I need to wait for the NOI to be sent to my home - or can we go ahead and get married now and then file for the I-130 once I have received the NOI in the mail. I have heard in previous forums that I will possibly be able to see the reason why the K-1 was denied in that paperwork and then be able to overcome those factors in our next attempt.

Thank you for your time and expertise. 

My fiancé and I met on Facebook, which I stated in our petition. We got an RFE. They wanted to know exactly "how" we connected on FB. Through which mutual friends and how it happened. They also were really uptight about that at my fiancé's interview last week. They wanted the exact names of the mututal friends we met through. I think it is because of our age and cultural differences.