The dreaded DS-5535 thread for Montreal. Post here and support each other (PART 2)

ShawnK · January 18

14 hours ago, dmitrych said:

On the meeting with their salesperson I asked them whether they see more difficulties recently in handling Motions to Extend or Motions to Dismiss, and they responded no, and added that Joshua Goldstein has a good persuasive response to MTD. They also said the government can request a MTE with a duration anywhere between 60-120 days, but Joshua doesn't like to agree to 120 days and tries to negotiate shorter durations (I don't recall their exact wording, but that's the general idea).

That's all I know.

I'm still looking for someone to refer to them for the 10% discount, so if you'd like to ask them directly, please let me know.

Interesting, I would ask for actual examples where they have been successful, especially since the summer. From my understanding - a MTD doesn't mean it is fully over, you can respond, then they get to respond, then it is up to the judge who can take as long as he/she wants. However, often , before the judge will rule, they will adjudicate. A lot of it seems to be luck, even now, some people quickly clear on Pacer.

I will see what happens, if it goes a year without any medical requests, then I think that would be a good time to go the WOM - because you then run the risk of being in a forever black hole. I do like Goldstein, he seems very enthusiastic and ready to fight, gives you some hope. Some other lawyers don't seem too confident, and very defeatist when it comes to a MTD.

Edited January 18 by ShawnK

mam521 · January 18

21 hours ago, Bestbest7 said:

i don’t have a Nexus card to return back to Canada, But I can use my citizenship certificate with driver’s license if the process takes too long. I don’t return back to work till spring so am home babysitting our 7 month old son.

You cannot fly internationally without your passport.

20 hours ago, Superluminal said:

Don't you have to cross the border into the US with the green card to activate it?

How are you applying? IR/CR, EB?

Correct. And his sponsor (wife) has to be either with him or in the US before he attempts to cross the border with the passport.

Daft_Cat · January 19

So after two extension requests, we received a motion to dismiss. The reasons were the usual - lack of jurisdiction, no claim, etc. Apparently the state attorney's hand was forced by the state department. There's nothing in our profile that would prompt a legitimate DS-5535, so our lawyer just sees this as a continuation of the emerging trend to not budge as a means of deterring future WoMs.

I haven't figured out what to do yet. On the one hand, given that people in January have begun to receive requests for their passport, my gut tells me I may receive good news sooner rather than later by simply doing nothing (my interview was in Feb 23). Then again, that assumes some semblance of linearity, which is not necessarily a fair assumption. Likewise, if I do withdraw the complaint, I risk losing that means of continued pressure on the consulate, which may prove helpful if what we're seeing now is the beginning of a more extreme slow-down in the consulate's pace.

We have a judge that's relatively friendly to the cause, so fighting the motion to dismiss may bear fruit - if only by continuing to make it easier for the consulate to simply issue the visa.

When it comes to others who may be considering the WoM route, I would just reinforce that a motion to dismiss seems to be the rule and not the exception. Even for long-standing cases. Take that extra cost into account up front, and keep in mind that the odds of a significant acceleration in pace appear to be slim (as I mentioned, I'm seemingly at the point where I'm close to the front of the line regardless, despite having filed the WoM 4-5 months ago).

Edited January 19 by Daft_Cat

northface · January 19

1 hour ago, Daft_Cat said:

So after two extension requests, we received a motion to dismiss. The reasons were the usual - lack of jurisdiction, no claim, etc. Apparently the state attorney's hand was forced by the state department. There's nothing in our profile that would prompt a legitimate DS-5535, so our lawyer just sees this as a continuation of the emerging trend to not budge as a means of deterring future WoMs.

I haven't figured out what to do yet. On the one hand, given that people in January have begun to receive requests for their passport, my gut tells me I may receive good news sooner rather than later by simply doing nothing (my interview was in Feb 23). Then again, that assumes some semblance of linearity, which is not necessarily a fair assumption. Likewise, if I do withdraw the complaint, I risk losing that means of continued pressure on the consulate, which may prove helpful if what we're seeing now is the beginning of a more extreme slow-down in the consulate's pace.

We have a judge that's relatively friendly to the cause, so fighting the motion to dismiss may bear fruit - if only by continuing to make it easier for the consulate to simply issue the visa.

When it comes to others who may be considering the WoM route, I would just reinforce that a motion to dismiss seems to be the rule and not the exception. Even for long-standing cases. Take that extra cost into account up front, and keep in mind that the odds of a significant acceleration in pace appear to be slim (as I mentioned, I'm seemingly at the point where I'm close to the front of the line regardless, despite having filed the WoM 4-5 months ago).

Currently Supreme Court to hear case of Los Angeles man denied visa over his tattoos.

Interesting , might it has some impacts to all VOs?

The following excerpt from LA times:

“The Supreme Court has never held that U.S. citizens and longtime residents have no right to due process, or even the right to a day in court,” said the couple’s attorney Eric Lee. “That would be a bombshell decision that would just explicitly give all of the consular officers and immigration agents all across the country carte blanche to violate the Constitution.”

https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2024-01-12/supreme-court-will-hear-case-of-los-angeles-man-denied-a-visa-over-his-tattoos

Maussanais · January 19

Hi Everyone,

I recently had my interview on December 15th, during which I received a section 221g notice requesting the submission of the online DS-5535 form AND my passport.

I completed the DS-5535 online right away and submitted it on December 17th. However, I didn't receive a confirmation after submission...

Instead, I landed on a thank-you webpage. Is this normal, or should I expect a confirmation by email?

Additionally, I wanted to inquire about the passport request during the interview. The officer returned my passport, he mentioned that I would need it for the holidays travel. I sent my passport last week , but I am now unable to travel. I'm curious about the duration they typically retain passports (if anyone experience that) and if there's any information on similar cases where officers listed passport as document to provide.

Thank you in advance for any insights or experiences you can share.

Best,

ShawnK · January 19

2 hours ago, Daft_Cat said:

So after two extension requests, we received a motion to dismiss. The reasons were the usual - lack of jurisdiction, no claim, etc. Apparently the state attorney's hand was forced by the state department. There's nothing in our profile that would prompt a legitimate DS-5535, so our lawyer just sees this as a continuation of the emerging trend to not budge as a means of deterring future WoMs.

I haven't figured out what to do yet. On the one hand, given that people in January have begun to receive requests for their passport, my gut tells me I may receive good news sooner rather than later by simply doing nothing (my interview was in Feb 23). Then again, that assumes some semblance of linearity, which is not necessarily a fair assumption. Likewise, if I do withdraw the complaint, I risk losing that means of continued pressure on the consulate, which may prove helpful if what we're seeing now is the beginning of a more extreme slow-down in the consulate's pace.

We have a judge that's relatively friendly to the cause, so fighting the motion to dismiss may bear fruit - if only by continuing to make it easier for the consulate to simply issue the visa.

When it comes to others who may be considering the WoM route, I would just reinforce that a motion to dismiss seems to be the rule and not the exception. Even for long-standing cases. Take that extra cost into account up front, and keep in mind that the odds of a significant acceleration in pace appear to be slim (as I mentioned, I'm seemingly at the point where I'm close to the front of the line regardless, despite having filed the WoM 4-5 months ago).

Sorry to hear that man...I would say that a motion to dismiss DOES NOT mean it is over. It's just a motion. I was recently following a class action case from Red Eagle, they filed a group lawsuit for mostly Persian applicants (mostly Iranian Americans sponsoring their parents or spouses) stuck in Armenia.

They too got a motion to dismiss, however, when you look at the arguments made by the DOS -they were quite pathetic, I am no lawyer but they looked pretty silly to me. They tried to argue that it's a final refusal and they don't need to do anything. The lawyer was able to respond and the judge agreed and denied their motion to dismiss (this was a few days ago , in California). The DOS Is now scrambling to adjudicate the cases. The lawyer shared everything online, now people are getting case updates etc..they are working to clear them.

The lawyer also believes this whole DS5535 thing is a big sham, they delay and delay and then all of a sudden when they are forced to respond they start clearing cases. This is for applicants in Iran, I highly doubt Iranian authorities are going to share info with the vetting people in the US. It's all nonsense, they quickly clear these people when forced to. This is just another travel ban without calling it a travel ban.

If you have a good lawyer, you've probably already spent 5K +, might as well fight. There is no expectation that they will clear any of these cases anytime soon.

Superluminal · January 19

33 minutes ago, northface said:

Currently Supreme Court to hear case of Los Angeles man denied visa over his tattoos.

Interesting , might it has some impacts to all VOs?

The following excerpt from LA times:

“The Supreme Court has never held that U.S. citizens and longtime residents have no right to due process, or even the right to a day in court,” said the couple’s attorney Eric Lee. “That would be a bombshell decision that would just explicitly give all of the consular officers and immigration agents all across the country carte blanche to violate the Constitution.”

https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2024-01-12/supreme-court-will-hear-case-of-los-angeles-man-denied-a-visa-over-his-tattoos

I read the whole article and it seems his trouble started when he was living in the US unlawfully when he got married in the US. Either way, a Supreme Court ruling could impact how consulates behave. Sounds like worst case scenario is the status quo.

ShawnK · January 19

28 minutes ago, Maussanais said:

Hi Everyone,

I recently had my interview on December 15th, during which I received a section 221g notice requesting the submission of the online DS-5535 form AND my passport.

I completed the DS-5535 online right away and submitted it on December 17th. However, I didn't receive a confirmation after submission...

Instead, I landed on a thank-you webpage. Is this normal, or should I expect a confirmation by email?

Additionally, I wanted to inquire about the passport request during the interview. The officer returned my passport, he mentioned that I would need it for the holidays travel. I sent my passport last week , but I am now unable to travel. I'm curious about the duration they typically retain passports (if anyone experience that) and if there's any information on similar cases where officers listed passport as document to provide.

Thank you in advance for any insights or experiences you can share.

Best,

I never got any sort of confirmation that they received it either, however you see case updates a few times once you send it in. I believe you are not supposed to send in your passport until they are finished processing the DS5535, even if they state it on the 221g, I know - confusing. Perhaps you will clear fast, perhaps it is more efficient now. If you need to travel you can always request your passport back, otherwise, they will send it to you with the visa after you are finished admin processing.

Daft_Cat · January 19

3 minutes ago, ShawnK said:

Sorry to hear that man...I would say that a motion to dismiss DOES NOT mean it is over. It's just a motion. I was recently following a class action case from Red Eagle, they filed a group lawsuit for mostly Persian applicants (mostly Iranian Americans sponsoring their parents or spouses) stuck in Armenia.

They too got a motion to dismiss, however, when you look at the arguments made by the DOS -they were quite pathetic, I am no lawyer but they looked pretty silly to me. They tried to argue that it's a final refusal and they don't need to do anything. The lawyer was able to respond and the judge agreed and denied their motion to dismiss (this was a few days ago , in California). The DOS Is now scrambling to adjudicate the cases. The lawyer shared everything online, now people are getting case updates etc..they are working to clear them.

The lawyer also believes this whole DS5535 thing is a big sham, they delay and delay and then all of a sudden when they are forced to respond they start clearing cases. This is for applicants in Iran, I highly doubt Iranian authorities are going to share info with the vetting people in the US. It's all nonsense, they quickly clear these people when forced to. This is just another travel ban without calling it a travel ban.

If you have a good lawyer, you've probably already spent 5K +, might as well fight. There is no expectation that they will clear any of these cases anytime soon.

I agree. My attorney actually brought this case up specifically as well as several of the points you mentioned. I'm likely going to continue on with it just to keep a foot in the door, legally speaking (anything beats the black void of dealing with the consulate directly). My attorney is of the position that the State Department will do just about anything to avoid the discovery process, so continuing to apply pressure is the right way forward.

Phil_K_IR1 · January 19

Ranting...

officially 7 weeks in since submitting a CV at the request of the consulate following a 221g, and nothing.

UGH.

dmitrych · January 19

2 hours ago, Daft_Cat said:

I agree. My attorney actually brought this case up specifically as well as several of the points you mentioned. I'm likely going to continue on with it just to keep a foot in the door, legally speaking (anything beats the black void of dealing with the consulate directly). My attorney is of the position that the State Department will do just about anything to avoid the discovery process, so continuing to apply pressure is the right way forward.

Who is your attorney? I had an impression that motion to dismiss is a fairly common part of the process, and attorneys who work with WoM often should be able to fight it.

Daft_Cat · January 19

32 minutes ago, dmitrych said:

Who is your attorney? I had an impression that motion to dismiss is a fairly common part of the process, and attorneys who work with WoM often should be able to fight it.

I went with PIC Law. They've been great, and they are more than willing (and eager) to fight it. It's just disappointing that it came to this after multiple extension requests.

You're right that it's common - though it's become a lot more common in the past few months. A year ago (before WoMs caught on), those waiting more than 6 months or so we're typically cleared after an initial extension request.

MandyMila · January 19

4 hours ago, Maussanais said:

Hi Everyone,

I recently had my interview on December 15th, during which I received a section 221g notice requesting the submission of the online DS-5535 form AND my passport.

I completed the DS-5535 online right away and submitted it on December 17th. However, I didn't receive a confirmation after submission...

Instead, I landed on a thank-you webpage. Is this normal, or should I expect a confirmation by email?

Additionally, I wanted to inquire about the passport request during the interview. The officer returned my passport, he mentioned that I would need it for the holidays travel. I sent my passport last week , but I am now unable to travel. I'm curious about the duration they typically retain passports (if anyone experience that) and if there's any information on similar cases where officers listed passport as document to provide.

Thank you in advance for any insights or experiences you can share.

Best,

Hello,

we are in the same boat. they asked us to fill out some form online which did not gave us any conformation number or anything.

also we are not sure how they will be contacting us.

when, and how did they reach out to you to mail your passport.

i hope you get your passport back soon with a visa.

good luck

Thanks,

ShawnK · January 19

I hope all you new DS5535 folks clear quickly, us 2023 old timers have been waiting since Feb 2023 and still waiting 😕 for them to clear the DS5535. It seems to be taking Montreal 11-14 months to clear these, and we aren't even sure of that anymore. They seem to be getting worse.

There were some lucky few who cleared fast but that is rare.

Please see our tracker , you can add your info.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jV7rzX2eCRVoEDRhOtN9a6hDoHRLNEf1P3ZGZbQ0_Dc/edit#gid=0

28 minutes ago, MandyMila said:

Hello,

we are in the same boat. they asked us to fill out some form online which did not gave us any conformation number or anything.

also we are not sure how they will be contacting us.

when, and how did they reach out to you to mail your passport.

i hope you get your passport back soon with a visa.

good luck

Thanks,

Blue473 · January 20

5 hours ago, Phil_K_IR1 said:

Ranting...

officially 7 weeks in since submitting a CV at the request of the consulate following a 221g, and nothing.

UGH.

Similarly, I received a 221g because of missing medical results (which arrived the day after the interview on December 19th) and CO kept my passport. She made it seem like it would be quickly approved once they got my results (and I didn't know any better).

The case was updated on the 19th and 21st of December. It was again updated when they responded to my email (2 weeks after it was sent) on January 11th. Here, they confirmed that they had received my medical results and that the case was in queue to being reviewed by a CO.

I really wished I had come across this forum before - would have worked harder to get an earlier date for the medical exam.

I'm really sorry to hear that folks have been waiting more than a year -- from a consulate that shares a border with the US!

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The dreaded DS-5535 thread for Montreal. Post here and support each other (PART 2)

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