Refusal due to section 212(a)5

[Nockideetah 5]

3 hours ago, SusieQQQ said:

FYI here is the full list of types of 212a refusals, from the Uscis manual.

https://fam.state.gov/FAM/09FAM/09FAM030104.html

Summary of Grounds for Refusal (by Section of Law):  See paragraph c for a list by category.

(1)  INA 212(a)(1):  Health and medical-related grounds (see 9 FAM 302.2);

(2)  INA 212(a)(2):  Criminal and related grounds (see 9 FAM 302.3 and 9 FAM 302.4);

(3)  INA 212(a)(3):  Security and related grounds (see 9 FAM 302.5, 9 FAM 302.6, and 9 FAM 302.7);

(4)  INA 212(a)(4):  Public charge (see 9 FAM 302.8);

(5)  INA 212(a)(5):  Labor certification, qualification (see 9 FAM 302.1-5);

(6)  INA 212(a)(6):  Illegal entrants, immigration violators, misrepresentation (see 9 FAM 302.9);

(7)  INA 212(a)(7):  Documentation requirements (see 9 FAM 302.1-3 and 9 FAM 302.1-4);

(8)  INA 212(a)(8):  Ineligible for citizenship (see 9 FAM 302.10);

(9)  INA 212(a)(9):  Previously removed, unlawfully present, unlawfully present after previous immigration violations (see 9 FAM 302.11);

(10) INA 212(a)(10): Other miscellaneous grounds (see 9 FAM 302.12);

 

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I agree that it is seems like an error, but of what exactly (a different type of refusal or, less likely, the CO refusing on an irrelevant ground for CR1) is hard to know. OP said NVC said something about documents being out of their jurisdiction, so possibly It was subsection 7 not 5... but that’s just speculation.

 

 

All I can think of is on the ds260 he put "daily labor" as his occupation and he answered that he teaches street law during his interview. 

[Adventine 3,187]

Could there have been some sort of language barrier between your spouse and the interviewer, leading to incorrect information entered on the DS260 and/or misunderstandings during the interview?

[SusieQQQ 11,584]

11 hours ago, Nockideetah said:

All I can think of is on the ds260 he put "daily labor" as his occupation and he answered that he teaches street law during his interview. 

It’s just not relevant to a spouse visa.
 

 

 

10 hours ago, Adventine said:

Could there have been some sort of language barrier between your spouse and the interviewer, leading to incorrect information entered on the DS260 and/or misunderstandings during the interview?

Unless the spouse speaks some weird dialect or living in a third country he should have been able to have the interview in his native language. All embassies offer the option of English or the country’s native language. There could still have been a misunderstanding, but not one that makes sense in terms of refusing a spouse visa due to labor certification issues.

Edited August 24, 2020 by SusieQQQ

[Orangesapples 1,954]

3 hours ago, SusieQQQ said:

It’s just not relevant to a spouse visa.
 

 

 

Unless the spouse speaks some weird dialect or living in a third country he should have been able to have the interview in his native language. All embassies offer the option of English or the country’s native language. There could still have been a misunderstanding, but not one that makes sense in terms of refusing a spouse visa due to labor certification issues.

Not necessarily. I was not offered this option at my interview because my then fiance speaks English only. They wanted to make sure I can actually communicate in English. 

Edited August 24, 2020 by Orangesapples

[SusieQQQ 11,584]

2 hours ago, Orangesapples said:

Not necessarily. I was not offered this option at my interview because my then fiance speaks English only. They wanted to make sure I can actually communicate in English. 

Well, that’s highly unusual, but it seems you had to prove something about the bona fides of your relationship as part of the interview and that’s why they did that. Perhaps OP can comment on if there was enough question about their ability to communicate and be a genuine couple that the interview would have been conducted in English only.

[Orangesapples 1,954]

33 minutes ago, SusieQQQ said:

Well, that’s highly unusual, but it seems you had to prove something about the bona fides of your relationship as part of the interview and that’s why they did that. Perhaps OP can comment on if there was enough question about their ability to communicate and be a genuine couple that the interview would have been conducted in English only.

Nope, it was a very easy and quick interview, I was approved very easily. Actually, I didn't ask for the option to have the interview in my native language at all and it was never given to me. I talked in my native language to the locals working at the embassy, not the CO. I was never told that I had to have the interview in English, the CO just started in English and that was it. I assumed it's because I was marrying a monolingual US citizen since I heard a couple before me (likely a diversity lottery visa winners) being interviewed in the native language. 

 

Or maybe my work history made it obvious that I'm fluent in English and the CO just wanted a break. No idea. 

Edited August 24, 2020 by Orangesapples

[SusieQQQ 11,584]

2 hours ago, Orangesapples said:

....didn't ask for the option to have the interview in my native language ...

.....

heard a couple before me (likely a diversity lottery visa winners) being interviewed in the native language. ...

Right...so your initial response was not actually relevant to what I said after all, thanks for clearing that up.

 

 

Edited August 25, 2020 by SusieQQQ

[Nockideetah 5]

On 8/24/2020 at 12:36 AM, Adventine said:

Could there have been some sort of language barrier between your spouse and the interviewer, leading to incorrect information entered on the DS260 and/or misunderstandings during the interview?

I'm not sure. On the I130 supplement we put "daily labor" under occupation. In his interview when they asked about his occupation he stated, "I teach street law". I don't know if that makes a difference. 

[Nockideetah 5]

On 8/19/2020 at 2:42 PM, retheem said:

Go at them with everything in your disposal- lawyer, congressman, enquire like your life depended on it. Did you fill out your application correctly?

I inquired through the NVC and was told that there was new information. I know that there was no new information. I also inquired through the congressman and was informed that he was unable to demonstrate that he was eligible for the CR1. At this point, I am so confused; I know that we filled it out correctly because it was approved. We are supposed to be receiving something from NVC in 3 more weeks, I hope. 

[SalishSea 16,826]

On 9/20/2020 at 10:24 PM, Nockideetah said:

I inquired through the NVC and was told that there was new information. I know that there was no new information. I also inquired through the congressman and was informed that he was unable to demonstrate that he was eligible for the CR1. At this point, I am so confused; I know that we filled it out correctly because it was approved. We are supposed to be receiving something from NVC in 3 more weeks, I hope. 

Eligibility for a visa is totally separate from a correctly fill-out/approved petition.  Almost all petitions are approved.

 

Something else came up at the interview which made them decide to deny the visa.

[Stephanie&Sofiane 19]

On 9/21/2020 at 12:24 AM, Nockideetah said:

I inquired through the NVC and was told that there was new information. I know that there was no new information. I also inquired through the congressman and was informed that he was unable to demonstrate that he was eligible for the CR1. At this point, I am so confused; I know that we filled it out correctly because it was approved. We are supposed to be receiving something from NVC in 3 more weeks, I hope. 

Hello, I'm sorry you and your husband are going through this. My husband, also Tunisian, had his interview last week at the Embassy in Tunis and we were given the same refusal. On the section 212(a)(5) it simply says our case is returned to the USCIS for further processing. Our attorney has emailed the Embassy to ask for a specific reason, but hasn't had a reply yet. She told us that the US Embassy in Tunisia is very difficult, especially if there have been prior marriages. In our situation I have previously been married. I contacted the NVC this week and the representative kindly offered to check the notes to see if she could provide more information, but all she could see was Being sent to USCIS for final decision.

 

We are incredibly confused too, as well as stressed, sad... everything has been fine until the interview. Have either of you had previous marriages, or previous visas,or sponsorship of someone on a visa? We are waiting for an explanation and to see what we need to do next. The attorney said typically the USCIS will send a notice of intention to revoke the case and then the couple has 30 days to respond. Her advice to us is to keep getting more information together to prove our marriage is sincere and be ready to reply back with everything. 

 

I will be checking back on your post, and if I find anything new and helpful will share it. Wishing you both good, we know how you are feeling right now.

[Nockideetah 5]

1 hour ago, Stephanie&Sofiane said:

Hello, I'm sorry you and your husband are going through this. My husband, also Tunisian, had his interview last week at the Embassy in Tunis and we were given the same refusal. On the section 212(a)(5) it simply says our case is returned to the USCIS for further processing. Our attorney has emailed the Embassy to ask for a specific reason, but hasn't had a reply yet. She told us that the US Embassy in Tunisia is very difficult, especially if there have been prior marriages. In our situation I have previously been married. I contacted the NVC this week and the representative kindly offered to check the notes to see if she could provide more information, but all she could see was Being sent to USCIS for final decision.

 

We are incredibly confused too, as well as stressed, sad... everything has been fine until the interview. Have either of you had previous marriages, or previous visas,or sponsorship of someone on a visa? We are waiting for an explanation and to see what we need to do next. The attorney said typically the USCIS will send a notice of intention to revoke the case and then the couple has 30 days to respond. Her advice to us is to keep getting more information together to prove our marriage is sincere and be ready to reply back with everything. 

 

I will be checking back on your post, and if I find anything new and helpful will share it. Wishing you both good, we know how you are feeling right now.

Hi, 

Thanks for sharing and I’m sorry about your situation too. From what I gathered, this section has to do with labor certification. So we’re just waiting on the next step. We were told to wait on NVC for 8 weeks as well. We’ll see what happens then. 

[Stephanie&Sofiane 19]

1 hour ago, Nockideetah said:

Hi, 

Thanks for sharing and I’m sorry about your situation too. From what I gathered, this section has to do with labor certification. So we’re just waiting on the next step. We were told to wait on NVC for 8 weeks as well. We’ll see what happens then. 

Thank you for your reply. I was reading more about the labor certification, we are wondering if it's because he has no workplace listed on his passport. He brought his diploma to the interview for verification that he is certified to repair phones, which he does now, but they never asked for his diploma. But I also read that the labor inadmissibility isn't supposed to apply to spouses,,which would make sense. They are coming here to have a life as a married couple, and as residents they would of course work here and have every right to,,,at least that's my understanding. It will be interesting for those of us with this type of refusal to see what reason they give. He was told his wife will know in 7 to 8 weeks, I called USCIS yesterday and was told allow up to 180 days. 

 

Hopefully it's something easy to figure out for each of us.

 

 

 

 

[Nockideetah 5]

40 minutes ago, Stephanie&Sofiane said:

Thank you for your reply. I was reading more about the labor certification, we are wondering if it's because he has no workplace listed on his passport. He brought his diploma to the interview for verification that he is certified to repair phones, which he does now, but they never asked for his diploma. But I also read that the labor inadmissibility isn't supposed to apply to spouses,,which would make sense. They are coming here to have a life as a married couple, and as residents they would of course work here and have every right to,,,at least that's my understanding. It will be interesting for those of us with this type of refusal to see what reason they give. He was told his wife will know in 7 to 8 weeks, I called USCIS yesterday and was told allow up to 180 days. 

 

Hopefully it's something easy to figure out for each of us.

 

 

 

 

I’m curious to know what you had stated in the I130 and DS260 for the employment section. 
We were told that we’d hear something from NVC in 8 weeks. I contacted them and they stated there was new information so, now we’re just waiting because they’re not cooperating anymore. I spoke to a lawyer but they can’t help until NVC informs us. Now is just the waiting game and I am definitely feeling frustrated. 
I also feel like it’s the same worker giving everyone the 212(a)5 recently. She was not friendly at all from what I hear. 

[Stephanie&Sofiane 19]

3 hours ago, Nockideetah said:

I’m curious to know what you had stated in the I130 and DS260 for the employment section. 
We were told that we’d hear something from NVC in 8 weeks. I contacted them and they stated there was new information so, now we’re just waiting because they’re not cooperating anymore. I spoke to a lawyer but they can’t help until NVC informs us. Now is just the waiting game and I am definitely feeling frustrated. 
I also feel like it’s the same worker giving everyone the 212(a)5 recently. She was not friendly at all from what I hear. 

We listed his previous and present employers, both are mobile phone shops where he does repairs. Our marriage certificate lists him as a phone technician. 

Before the interview our attorney told us to not be taken aback if they act hostile during the interview,,,but they were friendly to him so he thought the interview was going well. Also when we went to the embassy for permission to marry, the man who took our oath and granted permission was very friendly. He seemed genuinely happy for us and the other couple there. So I thought no worries... When they asked my husband to see the booklet of pictures of us he had with him, they told him to wait a few minutes. He said they looked at our pictures and were smiling, said a few nice things about them, then called him back over and he was given the refusal. That's when the woman interviewing (wonder if they had the same one) told him his wife will know everything in 6 or 7 weeks. He thought weeks, he said it might have been months but he couldn't really focus after that because everything had been going so well he thought,,he was as surprised as me when he called me after.

It's definitely frustrating especially when there is no reason given yet. But our attorney did say we should know in weeks, not months, so hopefully.

Did you marry in Tunisia, and if so did you also have an easy time when you got permission? Your timeline looks fast. We married April 2018 but didn't apply until October 2018, approved for I 130 that month, everything was sent to NVC around October 2019, then covid-19 came along and we got the interview notice in August. I've been to Tunisia twice and spent about 2 months at the family home both times, I was going to go in March but the borders closed. I was planning to go after the interview to see my in-laws again and we could come back together. Now just waiting on that too so we know if I'm going to visit or to stay. It's hard to understand when everything was great with the process until the interview 😕 I just hope they really do give everyone a chance to respond in 30 days before deciding.