B1/B2 Visa Denied : Incentive Trip and with Kids in the Application

[tonetz2019 0]

10 hours ago, SusieQQQ said:

If they didn’t ask about travel history then it wasn’t considered important to the decision. As I answered before, I think there was suspicion about the idea of taking families along on a work incentive trip especially when other employees with families aren’t. If they have the money and time, sure they can apply again on their own, they can expect difficulty with having just had a visa refused. 

 

I am sure there are many countries not in the US and not in Asia that can be used for incentives if their visa applications are still unsuccessful. Out of interest, how big is the whole company, and is it a family owned company?

You're right, we company may opt to choose another country but the plan for 2019 is to bring our batch (the company has 3 different batches of employees of incentive trips per year) to the USA, luckily this batch of applicants are supposed to go to the US.

 

The company is one of the largest construction firms in Baguio City, Philippines, with a revenue of Php 1Billion per year, its owned by a single individual and almost 3 decades in business.  

[tonetz2019 0]

9 hours ago, Boiler said:

Male or female the application form is the same.

 

Consulate are well aware that leaving children behind does not guarantee return, plenty of evidence here to support that.

 

Simple solution would be to go an incentive trip somewhere else.

I can assure you that the DS-160 forms for male and female applicant are not the same.  The differences ( I know well because I have filled out several applications in behalf of the applicants):

1. Males are asked of the countries visited, for females none

2. Males are asked of their previous employer, females no

3. Males are asked of their educational background, females no.

 

I do not see US as a green pasture and a safe place to leave and work in.  There are other countries that are better than the USA.  The trip was just to see what the country has to offer.  

 

Sure, we could choose other countries. 

 

Thanks for the insights

[Boiler 43,437]

The sheer illogicality and that asking questions dependent on your Gender in the US has unbelievable consequences, I can just imagine how the usual suspects would react, makes me not believe that they would. Now when i filled one in it was a paper format but now it is on line, fortunately we have a sample to look at:

 

https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/PDF-other/DS-160_Example.pdf

 

You will notice the all applicants bit at the top of the page.

 

I am not going to second guess why they were refused, I was not there, do not have a copy of the application etc. Nor am I a Consulate Officer.

 

I do try and be realistic, could a future application be successful, sure, is it likely, no.

 

 

 

 

[tonetz2019 0]

9 hours ago, WeGuyGal said:

Why the US?

Hi! 

 

This year, the company has decided to bring us to USA for a 10-day all expenses paid incentive trip.  Applicants 3 and 4 just decided to bring their daughters with them since they could save on the accommodations and will pay only for the airfare, but it was not interpreted that way.   The chosen travel period also falls during the birthdays of applicant 4 and the husband, would it not be a great idea if the daughter is with them.  This was not explained to the visa officer

[tonetz2019 0]

6 hours ago, SB5130 said:

Not entirely true. I am a Filipina and I had applied for a US visa 3 times - B1, B1/B2 and K-1 (all approved). For all interviews, i was asked for my travel history. I don't think the CO discriminates base on gender. 

 

In my opinion, the one that makes the difference was applicant #3 when she mentioned that  the trip was company incentive. If you observe, the same CO asked applicant #4 if it is a company incentive. Neither any of the applicants approved ever mentioned that their trips were company incentive. 

 

If you are the CO and you are trained to doubt, would you be easily convinced if "a company is sending off 4 employees and they are covering the expense for free?". More questions would arise I think. Like,

- is this company anyway connected to any company in US.  

Hello, SB5130.

 

Was the form DS 160 you filled out asked for the countries you visited? 

 

The question was if the family trip of applicant 4 was an incentive trip, it was honestly NO. That was a personal trip that the family went since the 1st birthday of their child and both families has planned for an annual trip that will be personal.  has the visa officer asked the applicant and the husband of the countries they visited, they could have told the that those trips were company incentive.

 

It is the first time that the company will send its employees to the USA.  The company send employees for  trip incentive on a per batch basis, we have 3 batches (minimum of 6, maximum of 18).  Yes, since my employment in year 2003, I have been on an incentive trip since 2005. All expenses paid with cash allowance.  An official or the owner of the company will usually join the trip.  

 

The company is a local company and not connected with any company in the US.

 

Thanks po sa insights, very much appreciated.

 

 

[tonetz2019 0]

9 hours ago, geowrian said:

Their circumstances are the same regardless of who applies.

Unfortunately, there are many cases where parents left their children behind initially, then later petitioned for the children if/once they became eligible. It's not uncommon with PH in particular.

 

The travel history is stated on the DS-160. This does not vary by gender.

 

All but 1 applicant (and a 2 year old) were asked about their travel history at the interview. The 1 not asked happened to be female. I wouldn't draw inferences that only males are asked for their travel histories based on 1 individual (plus I know females in PH asked about this).

Applicant 4 was asked where the FAMILY has traveled, but not individually

 

 

[tonetz2019 0]

8 hours ago, Georgia16 said:

When I read the interview I really also looked at # and #4 before I saw they were denied.

 

#3 Is traveling for vacation with her daughter but answer yes when asked if her boss will join in on the trip. Why would a boss join in on a vacation?

 

Kind of the same with #4 also say they are traveling for vacation and they are asked if it is work incentive then replay no but then say that the daughter's tickets are paid for by her parents? So who pays for the parent's tickets? so if it's vacation why aren't they paying for all the tickets themselves?

 

Sound like #3 and #4 are going for work but applied for a tourist visa and saying they are going on vacation.

Applicant 3's answer was true, in every trip incentive a company official or the owner will join the trip

 

The visa officer was not informed by applicant 4 of the arrangement of the trip of the daughter, but based on DS160 form, the VO will know that the parents will be paying for her trip.   The parents' tickets will be paid by the company since its an incentive trip. 

 

NOBODY in the group is interested in LIVING, WORKING AND STAYING in the USA, that is an HONEST STATEMENT.  If we are interested we could have applied for the proper visa and besides we are not that young anymore.  We will just go there for a very short vacation and will go back home after the trip.  We are very much privileged with our present employer to think of leaving them, besides which company offers its employees an annual trip abroad? 

Edited February 2, 2019 by tonetz2019

[SusieQQQ 11,584]

1 hour ago, tonetz2019 said:

I can assure you that the DS-160 forms for male and female applicant are not the same.  The differences ( I know well because I have filled out several applications in behalf of the applicants):

1. Males are asked of the countries visited, for females none

2. Males are asked of their previous employer, females no

3. Males are asked of their educational background, females no.

 

 

I can assure you the DS160 does not ask different questions based on gender. If you insist they do, kindly take screenshots with redacted information to show us how they differ, no one here will believe it. I know some questions will change depending on previous answers (example if you are single it does not ask for spouse details). The US does not discriminate on the basis of gender.

 

i filled out DS160s for myself, husband and kids back when we needed tourist visas, there was no difference in the questions my husband and I were asked. Obviously for little kids as they were back then the questions differed. On age, not gender. 

 

by the way did you sign on all the forms that they were prepared by someone else other than the applicant?

Edited February 2, 2019 by SusieQQQ

[tonetz2019 0]

7 hours ago, SusieQQQ said:

It occurs to me that if #3 and #4 reapply by themselves, a CO may wonder why it seems more important for them to go to the US without their families, than somewhere else with them? (Just thinking of my own family - in this situation we would certainly rather find a different destination to go to together. If the company is offering an incentive trip surely it has an alternative for those who can’t get visas?)

 

Still wondering about size and make-up of the company, and whether that had anything to do with the decision. Unlike georgia16 I admit i didn’t read all the details of all interviews on this thread (I’d read the previous one, not all English so missed some stuff) and yes it looks a bit odd. Even just having all the employees with their visa interviews at the same time seems a bit strange (I guess maybe a company assistant booked the slots though). And what kind of level exactly is “office employee”? This could mean anything from the tea lady to the CEO?

Applicants 3 and 4 just opted to bring with them their daughters.  The company do not give a FAMILY INCENTIVE TRIP.  Maybe it was a wrong decision that their children were included on the application   But applicants 3 and 4 do plan an annual personal trip overseas, last year they went to HK and Macau and this year to save on hotel accommodations they decided to tag their daughters along and pay for their airfare only.

 

I did the booking of the slots.  This is the batch chosen by the company to go to the USA, its an upgrade to the usual Asian country trip, since almost we have been to almost all countries in Asia.  All of us supervisory level in the company.  Our company is of the largest construction firm in one of the cities of the Philippines. 

[tonetz2019 0]

1 minute ago, SusieQQQ said:

I can assure you the DS160 does not ask different questions based on gender. If you insist they do, kindly take screenshots with redacted information to show us how they differ, I know some questions will change depending on previous answers (example if you are single it does not ask for spouse details). The US does not discriminate on the basis of gender.

 

by the way did you sign on all the forms that they were prepared by someone else other than the applicant?

Sure.  I can send it to you and highlight the differences.

Yes, I did sign  it.

 

[SusieQQQ 11,584]

Is there any reason you personally are filling in all the applications? From your description of yourself you don’t sound like an administrative assistant.

[tonetz2019 0]

Just now, SusieQQQ said:

Is there any reason you personally are filling in all the applications? From your description of yourself you don’t sound like an administrative assistant.

I only assist the applicants. I have been doing all the paperworks for all the visa application of the employees of the company.   

[SusieQQQ 11,584]

4 minutes ago, tonetz2019 said:

Sure.  I can send it to you and highlight the differences.

 

 

Lol ok well I look forward to seeing this having had the opposite experience. Pretty sure any differing questions will be explained by previous non-gendered answers. Not that any of this really matters, you’re probably better off deciding where else to send them tbh.

 

does the big boss of your company know you’re on a forum asking about this btw? I can imagine previous companies I worked for would not be too happy with that happening, admittedly your company seems to do things a bit differently. 

 

 

[tonetz2019 0]

9 minutes ago, SusieQQQ said:

Lol ok well I look forward to seeing this having had the opposite experience. Pretty sure any differing questions will be explained by previous non-gendered answers. Not that any of this really matters, you’re probably better off deciding where else to send them tbh.

 

does the big boss of your company know you’re on a forum asking about this btw? I can imagine previous companies I worked for would not be too happy with that happening, admittedly your company seems to do things a bit differently. 

 

 

Its no big deal, we usually do research on our trips and visa applications based on forums. Besides, I never mentioned the name of the company. 

 

The inclusion of the children and family application was the suggestions of some of our colleagues and those who applied before.  They said that there is a higher chance of being approved if the application is with the family  I guess its a case to case basis.   

 

based on my experience on the interview, one's approval may also be depending on the visa officer, there are lenient ones and strict ones  

Edited February 2, 2019 by tonetz2019

[SusieQQQ 11,584]

1 minute ago, tonetz2019 said:

 The inclusion of the children and family application was the suggestions of some of our colleagues and those who applied before.  They said that there is a higher chance of being approved if the application is with the family  I guess its a case to case basis.   

 

 

Oh well, there’s a new detail you left out before. Usually any hint that an application is tailored to “a higher chance” makes COs suspicious, maybe that came across in the interview. It’s the same reason I said before it’ll look suspicious to suddenly drop the family, like they’re desperate to get a visa. Past experience in Manila embassy also matters, you can also thank the previous Filipinos who’ve overstayed and make it more difficult for future applicants. As you said though luckily no-one is desperate to go to the US. Australia and New Zealand have some amazing places to visit, as obviously does almost everywhere in Europe.