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Prime minister’s Brexit deal is lost by 432 votes to 202

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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/jan/15/brexit-vote-parliament-latest-news-may-corbyn-gove-tells-tories-they-can-improve-outcome-if-mays-deal-passed-politics-live

 

How parties voted on May's Brexit deal
Here are the figures for how the parties voted on Theresa May’s deal:

For the deal – 202

Conservatives: 196

Labour: 3 (Ian Austin, Sir Kevin Barron and John Mann)

Independents: 3 (Frank Field, Lady Hermon, and Stephen Lloyd)

Against the deal – 432

Labour: 248

Conservatives: 118

SNP: 35

Lib Dems: 11

DUP: 10

Independents: 5 (Kelvin Hopkins, Ivan Lewis, Jared O’Mara, Fiona Onasanya, and John Woodcock)

Plaid Cymru: 4

Greens: 1

Majority against – 230



.

I cannot calculate the curve and complete the figure by the experience of sight; I can divine it by conscience. But from what I see I am sure it bends towards justice -Theodore Parker

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May says MPs will get chance to debate no-confidence motion tomorrow

Theresa May is making a statement to MPs now.

She says the result tells us what MPs do not want, but not what they want. She says she will first ensure MPs can see if they still have confidence in the government. If Jeremy Corbyn tables a no-confidence motion, it will get debated tomorrow. And if he does not, the government will allow other opposition parties to table a motion.

  • May says MPs will get the chance to debate a motion of no-confidence tomorrow.

She says she will then hold talks with the other parties to see what solution might be acceptable.

And she says she will go back to the EU to consider new plans.

  • May says she will hold talks with the opposition parties about an alternative Brexit approach.


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I cannot calculate the curve and complete the figure by the experience of sight; I can divine it by conscience. But from what I see I am sure it bends towards justice -Theodore Parker

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11 minutes ago, Chris Duffy said:

Why can't they just leave the EU Deal and tell the other countries to stick it

 

Why are they trying to negotiate ?

I wonder that myself.  I think the EU is afraid their second most vibrant economy is going which would put a giant burden on Germany.


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3 hours ago, Chris Duffy said:

Why can't they just leave the EU Deal and tell the other countries to stick it

 

Why are they trying to negotiate ?

They need a deal in place to protect migrants from other countries living in the UK and also UK citizens working around the EU. There is also the land border they share with Ireland, no one wants to return to the way it was before. There is also the trade deals that are in place with Ireland, along with arrangements from The Good Friday agreement. 

 

Not sure it's the EU who is worried, the UK is going to lose a lot in trade unless they strike a deal. A lot of companies are already relocating some of their offices to countries within the EU. The people in the UK want to keep their freedom to travel within the EU, a huge amount have holiday homes throughout France and Spain. 

 

Honestly I think if they held a vote today the remain vote would win by a large margin. The option to say "stick it" to the EU is a risky one. I think it is easier to get a better agreement before they leave than to try negotiate after a hard Brexit.

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5 hours ago, Chris Duffy said:

Why can't they just leave the EU Deal and tell the other countries to stick it

 

Why are they trying to negotiate ?

For a myriad of critical reasons that involves the stability or collapse of civilization in the UK.

4 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

I wonder that myself.  I think the EU is afraid their second most vibrant economy is going which would put a giant burden on Germany.

The EU isn't afraid in the slightest. The Tories fooled/lied themselves into thinking that the EU would actually give a flying leap and give them a sweetheart deal, when the actual matter is a serious one, and the EU should rightly make an example out of them.


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5 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

For a myriad of critical reasons that involves the stability or collapse of civilization in the UK.

The EU isn't afraid in the slightest. The Tories fooled/lied themselves into thinking that the EU would actually give a flying leap and give them a sweetheart deal, when the actual matter is a serious one, and the EU should rightly make an example out of them.

I really don't have a dog in this fight, so I don't really care.  I don't know why the UK doesn't just cut the ties with the EU and then create deals like Switzerland did.  I'll bet the US would create a pretty sweet trade deal with the UK. There may be some initial pain, but in the end they would most likely be better off.  Since the articles of separation have already been filed, if the UK wants to now stay I wonder if the EU would force them to give up the Pound?


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5 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

I really don't have a dog in this fight, so I don't really care.  I don't know why the UK doesn't just cut the ties with the EU and then create deals like Switzerland did.  I'll bet the US would create a pretty sweet trade deal with the UK. There may be some initial pain, but in the end they would most likely be better off.  Since the articles of separation have already been filed, if the UK wants to now stay I wonder if the EU would force them to give up the Pound?

The US actually has not made any actual effort to encourage such a trade deal. If the UK just leaves, and things stand currently as they are? Say goodbye to US/UK travel due to our airline regulations which we have failed to move on in light of the approaching urgency of Brexit. The ''pain'' you speak of would be devastating because the UK is currently not prepared for it - at all. I'm talking medication and food shortages, little to no trade, little to no travel, huge numbers of people self-deporting because of uncertainty, possible gas shortages, financial collapse, and parity to the dollar or below. No one in the current government wants to address these issues, because they really thought it was all going to be rosey.


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2 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

The US actually has not made any actual effort to encourage such a trade deal. If the UK just leaves, and things stand currently as they are? Say goodbye to US/UK travel due to our airline regulations which we have failed to move on in light of the approaching urgency of Brexit. The ''pain'' you speak of would be devastating because the UK is currently not prepared for it - at all. I'm talking medication and food shortages, little to no trade, little to no travel, huge numbers of people self-deporting because of uncertainty, possible gas shortages, financial collapse, and parity to the dollar or below. No one in the current government wants to address these issues, because they really thought it was all going to be rosey.

I really doubt they all thought it was going to be rosey, and I really doubt all the worst case doom and gloom scenarios.  The fact that the UK is a viable market will lead people to trade with them, and they fact that they still control their own currency is a plus.  I don't know if it will happen, but with Brussels imposing more and more bureaucracy on the member countries, and let's remember that they are member countries, not subordinate to Brussels, may start looking at this as a potential.  It will be an interesting several years. 


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16 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

I'll bet the US would create a pretty sweet trade deal with the UK. There may be some initial pain, but in the end they would most likely be better off.  Since the articles of separation have already been filed, if the UK wants to now stay I wonder if the EU would force them to give up the Pound?

Not sure if the US could cut a sweet enough or big enough deal with the UK to compensate what it will lose from the EU. The US is rightfully striking tougher more balanced trade deals with other countries so I'm not sure how they could throw the UK a sweetheart type deal.

 

Freedom to travel and work with the EU is huge and if the UK loses that they will be in real trouble. Best bet here is to try walk the referendum back and have another only this time with the public better informed. Nicholas Farage and Boris Johnson sold the British public a badly informed deal.

 

 


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8 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

I really doubt they all thought it was going to be rosey, and I really doubt all the worst case doom and gloom scenarios.  The fact that the UK is a viable market will lead people to trade with them, and they fact that they still control their own currency is a plus.  I don't know if it will happen, but with Brussels imposing more and more bureaucracy on the member countries, and let's remember that they are member countries, not subordinate to Brussels, may start looking at this as a potential.  It will be an interesting several years. 

If the currency has no value, and the UK has little to trade and no infrastructure to trade it.....

 

You call it interesting, I call it a people shooting themselves in all limbs and wondering what happened afterwards.


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5 minutes ago, Mr&Mrs G. said:

Not sure if the US could cut a sweet enough or big enough deal with the UK to compensate what it will lose from the EU. The US is rightfully striking tougher more balanced trade deals with other countries so I'm not sure how they could throw the UK a sweetheart type deal.

 

Freedom to travel and work with the EU is huge and if the UK loses that they will be in real trouble. Best bet here is to try walk the referendum back and have another only this time with the public better informed. Nicholas Farage and Boris Johnson sold the British public a badly informed deal.

 

 

I guess when I say sweet trade deal I was talking about a tariff free deal on both sides.  I mean the UK by itself is the 5th largest economy in the world and they still control their own currency.  I could see a lot of countries willing to trade with them.  As to walking the referendum back, isn't that akin to going back and asking for a second election for any reason?  I am sure there are a lot of Democrats in this country that would like to walk back 2016. 


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2 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

I guess when I say sweet trade deal I was talking about a tariff free deal on both sides.  I mean the UK by itself is the 5th largest economy in the world and they still control their own currency.  I could see a lot of countries willing to trade with them.  As to walking the referendum back, isn't that akin to going back and asking for a second election for any reason?  I am sure there are a lot of Democrats in this country that would like to walk back 2016. 

They can certainly have a redo.  Referendum democracies do not work, that is why a lot of countries that have this as an option, get special protections in place. Do you know why the UK is the 5th largest in the world? Do you know how they got that way? Controlling a currency does nothing if it has no value. And it wouldn't matter even if you thought countries would be willing to trade - as of right now the UK government has no viable plan in place to handle any of it.


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3 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

If the currency has no value, and the UK has little to trade and no infrastructure to trade it.....

 

You call it interesting, I call it a people shooting themselves in all limbs and wondering what happened afterwards.

Actually the Pound went up today after the failed vote.  You say the UK has nothing to trade, no ports, or infrastructure, really?  How does the 5th largest economy in this world conduct itself then?  I realize no one wants to see or feel pain and want instant gratification, but there is a cost to maintaining sovereignty.


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1 minute ago, Bill & Katya said:

As to walking the referendum back, isn't that akin to going back and asking for a second election for any reason?  I am sure there are a lot of Democrats in this country that would like to walk back 2016. 

They wouldn't be the first country within the EU to hold second or third referendum's on the same subject. If I remember correctly Ireland has done it on more than one occasion, the Lisbon Treaty comes to  mind off hand. Normally it's just a way of restructuring a deal, but this time the pro Brexiter's said the vote couldn't be undone and Nicholas Farage beat a quick departure from what he started and ended up in tv land. 

 

Maybe I am biased being Irish and the UK leaving the EU is bad for the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland, a no deal here puts a hard border back on the island of Ireland and that is unacceptable after all the years it took to get to where we are now.  Peace in Ireland was a long time coming, sure I want a united Ireland but I will take what we have now and it is not something the people of Ireland want to give up easily. 


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