Getting Divorce while I 751 pending for interview and N-400 Filed,

[lysander 14]

 

4 minutes ago, Mollie09 said:

Way to cherry-pick the field manual! Here's the most relevant part you omitted:

 

 

I read a bunch of different things. On VisaJourney, people seem more inclined to say, "Just present photos, joint bank account statements, etc. showing you had a bona fide relationship, and your I-751 will be approved." The immigration lawyer websites make it sound like there could be more to it, although maybe that's just because they want to scare people into hiring them. E.g., this one lawyer writes about the U.S. citizen ex-spouse:

 

Quote

If they’re willing to sign an affidavit that says that the couple entered into the marriage in good faith, that it was a legitimate marriage, that everyone had the best of intentions and it just didn’t work out, that’s going to go a long way to getting the conditional green card lifted and to get permanent lawful resident status for 10 years and beyond. Conversely, if the US citizen wants to harm the non-citizen’s chances of getting that permanent green card, and they actively go to immigration and try to thwart that effort by making bad statements or saying that the person only married me for the green card, that’s really going to hurt and probably be fatal to the non-citizen’s chances of getting that permanent green card.

The divorce waiver law used to require that the divorce be for "good cause" but that got changed in 1990. If all that's left is a requirement that the marriage have been in good faith at the outset, then the part about being not at fault for the failure to file a joint petition seems redundant. There's no way for a divorced couple to file a joint petition, so how could the immigrant be at fault for not filing a joint petition, except by being at fault for the divorce?

[Mollie09 1,543]

20 minutes ago, lysander said:

 

I read a bunch of different things. On VisaJourney, people seem more inclined to say, "Just present photos, joint bank account statements, etc. showing you had a bona fide relationship, and your I-751 will be approved." The immigration lawyer websites make it sound like there could be more to it, although maybe that's just because they want to scare people into hiring them. E.g., this one lawyer writes about the U.S. citizen ex-spouse:

 

The divorce waiver law used to require that the divorce be for "good cause" but that got changed in 1990. If all that's left is a requirement that the marriage have been in good faith at the outset, then the part about being not at fault for the failure to file a joint petition seems redundant. There's no way for a divorced couple to file a joint petition, so how could the immigrant be at fault for not filing a joint petition, except by being at fault for the divorce?

 

I only quoted the same field manual you did, but the beginning paragraph, not the last bullet. It clearly states whether the divorce is at-fault or not doesn't matter for immigration purposes.

Also, I researched this quite a bit and talked to a few lawyers, considering I filed for a waiver for my ROC.

[lysander 14]

14 minutes ago, Mollie09 said:

 

I only quoted the same field manual you did, but the beginning paragraph, not the last bullet. It clearly states whether the divorce is at-fault or not doesn't matter for immigration purposes.

Also, I researched this quite a bit and talked to a few lawyers, considering I filed for a waiver for my ROC.

What does your research say the statute is talking about when it says "not at fault in failing to meet the requirements of paragraph (1)"?

 

Quote

the qualifying marriage was entered into in good faith by the alien spouse, but the qualifying marriage has been terminated (other than through the death of the spouse) and the alien was not at fault in failing to meet the requirements of paragraph (1)

Edited September 26, 2018 by lysander

[Going through 5,668]

5 hours ago, lysander said:

What does your research say the statute is talking about when it says "not at fault in failing to meet the requirements of paragraph (1)"?

 

Quote

the qualifying marriage was entered into in good faith by the alien spouse, but the qualifying marriage has been terminated (other than through the death of the spouse) and the alien was not at fault in failing to meet the requirements of paragraph (1)

Paragraph (1) basically refers to the applicant being able to meet the IMFA requirements (likely determined through evidence presented during the interview) that the marriage was not entered into solely for immigration benefits.

 

Still has nothing to do with who was found "at fault" in a divorce settlement.

[lysander 14]

4 minutes ago, Going through said:

Paragraph (1) basically refers to the applicant being able to meet the IMFA requirements (likely determined through evidence presented during the interview) that the marriage was not entered into solely for immigration benefits.

 

Still has nothing to do with who was found "at fault" in a divorce settlement.

We know from the Adjudicator's Field Manual that the determination of "fault" they're talking about has nothing to do with being found at fault in the divorce settlement:
 

Quote

 

The statute requires that the alien establish that he or she “was not at fault in failing to meet the requirements” for filing a joint petition for removal of conditions. This should not be read as requiring that the alien’s divorce decree finds his or her spouse to have been at fault, nor does it require that the divorce was obtained on a no-fault basis. You still might determine that the alien was wholly or partly responsible for not meeting the joint petitioning requirements. Likewise, a divorce decree stating that the alien was “at fault” (with regards to the breakup of the marriage) does not preclude you from independently determining that he or she was not at fault, at least with regard to the requirements of the immigration law.

 

The manual doesn't give any examples of what would make someone at fault for failing to file a joint petition, though.

 

If there's no inquiry into whether the immigrant is at fault for the marital breakdown, then it sounds like it could actually be easier to get a divorce waiver than to get through a joint petitioning process, because you don't even have to worry about a Stokes-like interview (where they compare what you say to what your spouse says), since the ex-spouse isn't going to be there. You would just say, "Here's our photos together, and our joint bank statements from before I moved out" to substantiate that you had a legit relationship, and get your 10-year green card.

[Mollie09 1,543]

10 minutes ago, lysander said:

We know from the Adjudicator's Field Manual that the determination of "fault" they're talking about has nothing to do with being found at fault in the divorce settlement:
 

The manual doesn't give any examples of what would make someone at fault for failing to file a joint petition, though.

 

If there's no inquiry into whether the immigrant is at fault for the marital breakdown, then it sounds like it could actually be easier to get a divorce waiver than to get through a joint petitioning process, because you don't even have to worry about a Stokes-like interview (where they compare what you say to what your spouse says), since the ex-spouse isn't going to be there. You would just say, "Here's our photos together, and our joint bank statements from before I moved out" to substantiate that you had a legit relationship, and get your 10-year green card.

 

You clearly don't understand this process. That's all I have to say.

[lysander 14]

14 minutes ago, Mollie09 said:

 

You clearly don't understand this process. That's all I have to say.

I thought I pretty much summed up what you were saying about it. If you only have to show that your relationship was legit (i.e. not a sham marriage), then the process of getting a divorce waiver is easy.

 

Like the manual was saying, you would just present "(i) Documentation showing joint ownership of property;(ii) Lease showing joint tenancy of a common residence;(iii) Documentation showing commingling of financial resources;(iv) Birth certificates of children born to the marriage;(v) Affidavits of third parties having knowledge of the bona fides of the marital relationship, or(vi) Other documentation establishing that the marriage was not entered into in order to evade the immigration laws of the United States."

 

And then the immigration officer would say, "Boom, you're approved" and you'd get your 10-year green card. No muss, no fuss. No awkward/uncomfortable/personal questions about why the marriage broke down, because that would be irrelevant, given that it doesn't matter who was at fault.

Edited September 27, 2018 by lysander

[santiagosilva 8]

This is why it's annoying that ppl stop keeping up on their VJ's after they get approved or denied; everyone is left to just "debate", and speculate.

 

I can categorically promise that i'll be posting my end results, no matter what. I can't guarantee it'll be the same day, especially if i have to leave the country and need to scramble to move and sell all my properties,    but i make a formal promise to at least post the results.

 

 

[Lemonslice 4,563]

1 hour ago, lysander said:

I thought I pretty much summed up what you were saying about it. If you only have to show that your relationship was legit (i.e. not a sham marriage), then the process of getting a divorce waiver is easy.

 

Like the manual was saying, you would just present "(i) Documentation showing joint ownership of property;(ii) Lease showing joint tenancy of a common residence;(iii) Documentation showing commingling of financial resources;(iv) Birth certificates of children born to the marriage;(v) Affidavits of third parties having knowledge of the bona fides of the marital relationship, or(vi) Other documentation establishing that the marriage was not entered into in order to evade the immigration laws of the United States."

 

And then the immigration officer would say, "Boom, you're approved" and you'd get your 10-year green card. No muss, no fuss. No awkward/uncomfortable/personal questions about why the marriage broke down, because that would be irrelevant, given that it doesn't matter who was at fault.

.Are you divorced yet?  If so, your ex spouse is the one who should worry about removing conditions, there's nothing for you to do.  

If the restraining order is still in place, please discuss with your lawyer before doing anything that could be detrimental to your ex spouse.

 

 

Edited September 27, 2018 by Lemonslice

[Going through 5,668]

6 hours ago, lysander said:

The manual doesn't give any examples of what would make someone at fault for failing to file a joint petition, though.

It does, in a sense.  Failure to meet the criteria in paragraph 1 would be the examples of someone at fault for failing to file jointly.

 

5 hours ago, lysander said:

Like the manual was saying, you would just present "(i) Documentation showing joint ownership of property;(ii) Lease showing joint tenancy of a common residence;(iii) Documentation showing commingling of financial resources;(iv) Birth certificates of children born to the marriage;(v) Affidavits of third parties having knowledge of the bona fides of the marital relationship, or(vi) Other documentation establishing that the marriage was not entered into in order to evade the immigration laws of the United States."

 

And then the immigration officer would say, "Boom, you're approved" and you'd get your 10-year green card. No muss, no fuss. No awkward/uncomfortable/personal questions about why the marriage broke down, because that would be irrelevant, given that it doesn't matter who was at fault.

 

Exactly.  It's irrelevant once proven the marriage was entered into with bonafide intent.

USCIS doesn't care why the marriage broke down.  They are not marriage counselors.  

They are there to adjudicate a person's legal status/claim to legal status only...not to judge who was at fault in a marital breakdown.

 

Edited September 27, 2018 by Going through

[Mollie09 1,543]

16 hours ago, lysander said:

I thought I pretty much summed up what you were saying about it. If you only have to show that your relationship was legit (i.e. not a sham marriage), then the process of getting a divorce waiver is easy.

 

Like the manual was saying, you would just present "(i) Documentation showing joint ownership of property;(ii) Lease showing joint tenancy of a common residence;(iii) Documentation showing commingling of financial resources;(iv) Birth certificates of children born to the marriage;(v) Affidavits of third parties having knowledge of the bona fides of the marital relationship, or(vi) Other documentation establishing that the marriage was not entered into in order to evade the immigration laws of the United States."

 

And then the immigration officer would say, "Boom, you're approved" and you'd get your 10-year green card. No muss, no fuss. No awkward/uncomfortable/personal questions about why the marriage broke down, because that would be irrelevant, given that it doesn't matter who was at fault.

 

Oh, I remember you! How's the divorce going? Are you just bitter that you ex gets to stay in the country and there's nothing you can do about it? I'm sure you and my ex-husband would get along great.

Btw, no immigration officer ever told me "Boom, you're approved" because I never had to speak to anyone about this - my ROC was approved without an interview.

 

[santiagosilva 8]

Any updates on anyone's case?

[santiagosilva 8]

No updates for anyone?

 

I still haven't heard anything on any of my processes

[santiagosilva 8]

Idk if this thread is still active.

 

I just got back from my second infopass appointment. (fargo ND field office) The officer said he only dealt w n 400 and that there was nobody else at that office. I said i have a i 751 pending and that I'd have to come here, so he would have to most likely deal with both my cases . He kind of just shrug his shoulders. I told him about my pending divorce, and that estimated timeline would be divorce court in May, final late may. He said I most likely wouldn't qualify for the N 400, that I might as well withdraw it, but that he was going to have to look into the laws. I asked to clarify that "n 400 counts as continuous marriage, all the way through the interview, NOT just application date?" he repeated 2-3 times that that was the case. (but that he would look into it.) He also said that the N 400 are 16 months processing times. (in my case, that would put me at finalizing n 400 a little after my divorce.) But as I said, he didn't seem 100% sure on a lot of things, so I'm not going to take this as gospel for now.