Update! More than 20 dead in Virginia Tech shootings

[natty bumppo 297]

I'm not really surprised about the delay. Unfortunately it seems to take an incident like this (or indeed 9/11) to really illustrate the inefficiency and general incompetence that surrounds a lot of disaster/emergency planning.

They are located in the country, what sort of split second response do people seriously expect. Should of, could of, would off.. I think under the circumstances they did the best they could.

There are so many people out there saying, "well they should have contacted everyone sooner or locked down the campus". Okay geniuses, you tell me how a 'school', not FEMA, is supposed to notify 26,000 people of a threat they know very little about. Let alone lock down a 2600 acre campus..

People should be asking the real question as to what causes someone to carry out stuff like this in this country? What is the catalyst?? The average person has to stop looking for scape goats to blame in order to help them sleep at night..

If tragedies like this can can occur in a renowned school in the mountains of Virginia, I don't know where we are safe in the US..

I pray for the people who experienced tragedy today. I am also angry that this tragedy occurred.

The remoteness of VT is not an issue. That someone(s) in LE made a mistake and permitted this to have a second act, yes this is a sad strong possibility.

This is a very conservative state that has strong “Right to Carry” or “Shall issue” laws, and they are practiced, especially west of Charlottesville. There are a lot of people in this part of the state who strongly believe in the 2nd amendment and the right to carry, the right to life, and personal responsibility. It was only 30 years ago that students used to carry and keep firearms in the dorms at VT with no problems. Wow, have times changed. I know one of the instructors who carried at school during this time period. So what happened? 30 years ago students carried, kept firearms in the dorms and there were no incidents. Humm, sounds like a change or degradation in culture here.

Carry concealed on campus? Yes, I have not only carried but have instructed on campus in 2004 and 2005. It was at CVCC and this was a PE course that we worked to have added into the curriculum to teach students to be safe. We taught basic skills, and above all, to be safe and responsible with firearms.

Scapegoats, we have plenty. For the truth, we have only to look into the mirror and ask a simple question. Who is responsible, me or someone else.

Oh, about the comment regarding Kent State …please tell me who were the shooters? Students or Government?

I left Lynchburg last year, and as a former 16 year resident of Lynchburg, this sad affair hits pretty deep for me. I have lots of friends with children attending VT. Fortunately all have good news about their children.

[Nagishkaw 510]

I made the comment about Kent State. No where did I mention anything about the shooters. All I said is THE PICTURE on the first page of this thread REMINDED ME of what happened in Ohio decades ago. I also said I did not know why, other than it did.

My apologies for slobbering sentimentally over the past.

[Marilyn. 340]

Va. Tech president: Gunman was a student

By ADAM GELLER, AP National Writer 43 minutes ago

Virginia Tech's president said Tuesday that a student was the gunman in at least the second of the two campus attacks that claimed 33 lives to become the deadliest shooting rampage in modern U.S. history.

Though he did not explicitly say the student was also the gunman in the first shooting, he said he did not believe there was another shooter at large.

Two hours after two people were killed at a dormitory Monday, 30 more people were killed at a campus building by a gunman who finally killed himself with a shot to his head.

"We do know that he was an Asian male — this is the second incident — an Asian man who was a resident in one of our dormitories," university president Charles Steger said in an interview with CNN, confirming for the first time that the killer was a student.

Steger also defended the university's delay in warning students after the first shooting. Some students said their first notice came in an e-mail at 9:26 a.m., after the second shooting had begun.

Steger said the university was trying to notify students who were already on-campus, not those who were commuting in.

"We warned the students that we thought were immediately impacted," he told CNN. "We felt that confining them to the classroom was how to keep them safest."

He said investigators did not know there was a shooter loose on campus in the interval between the two shootings because the first could have been a murder-suicide.

Two students told NBC's "Today" show they were unaware of the dorm shooting when they reported to a German class where the gunman later opened fire.

Derek O'Dell, his arm in a cast after being shot, described a shooter who fired away in "eerily silence" with "no specific target — just taking out anybody he could."

After the gunman left the room, students could hear him shooting other people down the hall. O'Dell said he and other students barricaded the door so the shooter couldn't get back in — though he later tried.

"After he couldn't get the door open he tried shooting it open... but the gunshots were blunted by the door," O'Dell said.

The slayings left people of this once-peaceful mountain town and the university at its heart praying for the victims, struggling to find order in a tragedy of such unspeakable horror it defies reason.

Laura Bush were planning to attend a 2 p.m. convocation Tuesday, and people sought comfort Monday night at a church servide.

One mourner pleaded "for parents near and far who wonder at a time like this, 'Is my child safe?'"

That question promises to haunt Blacksburg long after Monday's attacks. Investigators offered no motive, and the gunman's name was not released.

The shooting began about 7:15 a.m. on the fourth floor of West Ambler Johnston, a high-rise coed dormitory where two people died.

Police were still investigating around 9:15 a.m., when a gunman wielding two handguns and carrying multiple clips of ammunition stormed Norris Hall, a classroom building a half-mile away on the other side of the 2,600-acre campus.

At least 15 people were hurt in the second attack, some seriously. Many found themselves trapped after someone, apparently the shooter, chained and locked Norris Hall doors from the inside.

Students jumped from windows, and students and faculty carried away some of the wounded without waiting for ambulances to arrive.

SWAT team members with helmets, flak jackets and assault rifles swarmed over the campus. A student used his cell-phone camera to record the sound of bullets echoing through a stone building.

Inside Norris, the attack began with a thunderous sound from Room 206 — "what sounded like an enormous hammer," said Alec Calhoun, a 20-year-old junior who was in a solid mechanics lecture in a classroom next door.

Screams followed an instant later, and the banging continued. When students realized the sounds were gunshots, Calhoun said, he started flipping over desks to make hiding places. Others dashed to the windows of the second-floor classroom, kicking out the screens and jumping from the ledge of Room 204, he said.

"I must've been the eighth or ninth person who jumped, and I think I was the last," said Calhoun, of Waynesboro, Va. He landed in a bush and ran.

Calhoun said that the two students behind him were shot, but that he believed they survived. Just before he climbed out the window, Calhoun said, he turned to look at his professor, who had stayed behind, apparently to prevent the gunman from opening the door.

The instructor was killed, Calhoun said.

Erin Sheehan, who was in the German class next door to Calhoun's class, told the student newspaper, the Collegiate Times, that she was one of only four of about two dozen people in the class to walk out of the room. The rest were dead or wounded, she said.

She said the gunman "was just a normal-looking kid, Asian, but he had on a Boy Scout-type outfit. He wore a tan button-up vest, and this black vest, maybe it was for ammo or something."

The gunman first shot the professor in the head and then fired on the class, another student, Trey Perkins, told The Washington Post. The gunman was about 19 years old and had a "very serious but very calm look on his face," he said.

"Everyone hit the floor at that moment," said Perkins, 20, of Yorktown, Va., a sophomore studying mechanical engineering. "And the shots seemed like it lasted forever."

At an evening news conference, Police Chief Wendell Flinchum refused to dismiss the possibility that a co-conspirator or second shooter was involved. He said police had interviewed a male who was a "person of interest" in the dorm shooting and who knew one of the victims, but he declined to give details.

"I'm not saying there's a gunman on the loose," Flinchum said. Ballistics tests will help explain what happened, he said.

Some students bitterly complained that the first e-mail warning arrived more than two hours after the first shots.

"I think the university has blood on their hands because of their lack of action after the first incident," said Billy Bason, 18, who lives on the seventh floor of the dorm.

Steger emphasized that the university closed off the dorm after the first attack and decided to rely on e-mail and other electronic means to spread the word, but said that with 11,000 people driving onto campus first thing in the morning, it was difficult to get the word out.

He said that before the e-mail was sent, the university began telephoning resident advisers in the dorms and sent people to knock on doors. Students were warned to stay inside and away from the windows.

"We can only make decisions based on the information you had at the time. You don't have hours to reflect on it," Steger said.

The 9:26 e-mail had few details: "A shooting incident occurred at West Amber Johnston earlier this morning. Police are on the scene and are investigating."

Until Monday, the deadliest shooting in modern U.S. history was in Killeen, Texas, in 1991, when George Hennard plowed his pickup truck into a Luby's Cafeteria and shot 23 people to death, then himself.

The massacre Monday took place almost eight years to the day after the Columbine High bloodbath near Littleton, Colo. On April 20, 1999, two teenagers killed 12 fellow students and a teacher before taking their own lives.

Previously, the deadliest campus shooting in U.S. history was a rampage that took place in 1966 at the University of Texas at Austin, where Charles Whitman climbed the clock tower and opened fire with a rifle from the 28th-floor observation deck. He killed 16 people before he was shot to death by police.

Founded in 1872, Virginia Tech is nestled in southwestern Virginia, about 160 miles west of Richmond. With more than 25,000 full-time students, it has the state's largest full-time student population. The school is best known for its engineering school and its powerhouse Hokies football team.

Police said there had been bomb threats on campus over the past two weeks but that they had not determined whether they were linked to the shootings.

It was second time in less than a year that the campus was closed because of gunfire.

Last August, the opening day of classes was canceled when an escaped jail inmate allegedly killed a hospital guard off campus and fled to the Tech area. A sheriff's deputy was killed just off campus. The accused gunman, William Morva, faces capital murder charges.

Among the dead were professors Liviu Librescu and Kevin Granata, said Ishwar K. Puri, the head of the engineering science and mechanics department.

Librescu, an Israeli, was born in Romania and was known internationally for his research in aeronautical engineering, Puri wrote in an e-mail to The Associated Press.

Granata and his students researched muscle and reflex response and robotics. Puri called him one of the top five biomechanics researchers in the country working on movement dynamics in cerebral palsy.

Also killed was Ryan Clark, a student from Martinez, Ga., who had several majors and carried a 4.0 grade-point average, said Vernon Collins, coroner in Columbia County, Ga.

His friend Gregory Walton, a 25-year-old who graduated last year, said he feared the nightmare had just begun.

"I knew when the number was so large that I would know at least one person on that list," said Walton, a banquet manager. "I don't want to look at that list. I don't want to.

"It's just, it's going to be horrible, and it's going to get worse before it gets better."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070417/ap_on_...a_tech_shooting

They relied on emails to get the word out??

Edited April 17, 2007 by MarilynP

[Jenn! 918]

Right before I went to bed last night I saw a woman on our local news. She didn't know if her son was alive or dead and couldn't get in touch with him. They showed a photo (guy in red shirt being dragged out) that she suspected might be him, but she didn't know.

Heard on the radio this morning that it was him. Just heartbreaking.

[MariaEric 0]

Right before I went to bed last night I saw a woman on our local news. She didn't know if her son was alive or dead and couldn't get in touch with him. They showed a photo (guy in red shirt being dragged out) that she suspected might be him, but she didn't know.

Heard on the radio this morning that it was him. Just heartbreaking.

It was an awful thing

I am truly sorry for all those who died, those who did not and their families. It sure must be a traumatic experience for everyone. I cannot help but wonder what is wrong with someone to wake up one day in the morning and decide it is 'the day' for a killing spree.

I have heard about the shooter being a non-US-citizen on a visa on the FOX channel, either Chinese or Korean,do you think this will have consequences for everyone applying for visas or those already in the AOS process?

It is appalling seeing these things happen kind of often nowadays.

[MariaEric 0]

Ok they say now 'asian looks' nothing confirmed about the origin...i hate when the media just speculate about things like that

I did not want to confuse anyone.

Edited April 17, 2007 by MariaEric

[Otto 83]

Not that I'm an expert..but for those who are watching this tragedy continue to unfold - remember to turn it off at times and do something else - will help keep you from getting overloaded...

[DeadPoolX 9]

I have heard about the shooter being a non-US-citizen on a visa on the FOX channel, either Chinese or Korean,do you think this will have consequences for everyone applying for visas or those already in the AOS process?

As I wrote before, if the shooter was here on a visa, then that might make things more difficult (but not necessarily impossible) for those wishing to get visas in the future. Unfortunately, the American public has little-to-no knowledge about the vias process and can't seem to distinguish between "legal" and "illegal" immigration.

Ok they say now 'asian looks' nothing confirmed about the origin...i hate when the media just speculate about things like that

If it were not true, why people speculate with things like that

The media and law enforcement tend to do this when a disaster takes place. I don't know if you recall, but when the Oklahoma City Bombing occurred, both the media and law enforcement said the bomber was a "middle-eastern male." He, of course, turned out to be a white U.S. citizen.

[MariaEric 0]

I.D being released now. The student was Cho Seung-Hui, i understood he was a LPR South Korean of origin(but sometimes i still have trouble following the news)

Edited April 17, 2007 by MariaEric

[sereia 0]

they just said his name:

cho seung-hui 23 years old

looks korean to me.

[Jenn! 918]

I heard that the guy has a disturbing facebook page.

[chri'stina 190]

As I wrote before, if the shooter was here on a visa, then that might make things more difficult (but not necessarily impossible) for those wishing to get visas in the future. ....

I don't agree. If the shooter was involved in a domestic dispute that started the whole madness, it has nothing to do with his country of origin.

Countries that now have harder times with visas are either because of having high numbers of fraud, or countries related to people who have committed terrorist attacks or where there is some support for radical Islam, even if most of that country does not support it.

If the gunman killed in the name of his country (if he really is here on a visa) then maybe that could effect visas from that country. But still, I doubt it. I don't think his sole purpose for coming to the US was to do this. If that WAS the sole purpose then that is where problems can start with visas from that country, IMO. But so far we don't know enough to say that.

Edited April 17, 2007 by stina&suj

[Heracles 417]

I have heard about the shooter being a non-US-citizen on a visa on the FOX channel, either Chinese or Korean,do you think this will have consequences for everyone applying for visas or those already in the AOS process?

It is appalling seeing these things happen kind of often nowadays.

There seems to be inadequate mental screening of immigrants. I myself thought it was strange to have absolutely no mental evaluation during the visa process; even though our finances, validity and pretty much everything else was checked. This is extremely important for people coming from non-democratic and non-Christian countries, as they will probably have the hardest time adapting to the culture here. There are various ways immigration can conduct preliminary mental evaluations at embassies using online questionnaires, as many companies already do with potential applicants.

Wow. The killer lived about 15 minutes from my place..

[CarolineM 0]

Regardless of whether his country of origin has anything to do with the crime...you guys KNOW that people will make an issue of it....they'll say there's not enough mental screening of immigrants...and it will definitely affect people here and their own VJ's...I'm sure of it.

If the Adam Walsh act had such a huge impact and that relaly had NOTHING to do with immigratio n- think what this will do

[DeadPoolX 9]

As I wrote before, if the shooter was here on a visa, then that might make things more difficult (but not necessarily impossible) for those wishing to get visas in the future. ....

I don't agree. If the shooter was involved in a domestic dispute that started the whole madness, it has nothing to do with his country of origin.

Countries that now have harder times with visas are either because of having high numbers of fraud, or countries related to people who have committed terrorist attacks or where there is some support for radical Islam, even if most of that country does not support it.

If the gunman killed in the name of his country (if he really is here on a visa) then maybe that could effect visas from that country. But still, I doubt it. I don't think his sole purpose for coming to the US was to do this. If that WAS the sole purpose then that is where problems can start with visas from that country, IMO. But so far we don't know enough to say that.

What you say makes sense, and therein lies the problem. You're using logic. Since when has the public at large (or those in Washington, DC) used logic to solve their problems?

Honestly, now that he's been identified as a Permanent Resident (which means he's a legal immigrant to this country), I can easily see a backlash against immigrants starting up. There will be people who'll say, "If we didn't allow immigrants into the U.S., this never would've happened!" As it is, the American public already has very negative feelings towards immigrants (this is mostly due to the illegal immigrant situation with Mexico and some other countries, but the rank-and-file American can't tell or doesn't care to tell, the difference between a "legal" or "illegal" immigrant) and I can't imagine this event will help promote postive feelings either.

The lawmakers are pretty damn tough on immigration too, and if they see their constituents shouting for harsher immigration laws, they might just grant it. I don't think they'd make immigration impossible, but they may make it considerably more difficult. That's my take on the situation anyway, just judging by how ignorant and paranoid people can get over an incident when looking for a scapegoat.