Donald Trump offers to help Charlie Gard after UK court rules life support machine to be turned off

[OriZ 3,165]

33 minutes ago, CaliCat said:

 

There is a reason medicine is practiced - it's not an exact science, and for the most of it, when it comes to serious illnesses it's more a matter of trial and error than following a recipe. That's why they call it medical trials Sometimes things work, others they don't. Our healthcare system is expensive and inefficient, and more expensive than in other countries, and arguably even superior, but the reality is that most Americans will not have access to these groundbreaking treatments, unless they can pay, because insurance companies have a lifetime cap on their policies. In addition, insurance companies are in the business of turning profits, not saving lives, and they reserve the right to deny treatment to anyone they cover. Healthcare in our country has always been rationed, first by your ability to pay insurance, and then for the financial interest of the insurance companies.

 

The noise machine here talks about waiting for treatment in some countries, while some Americans will die because they have no access to a doctor until it's too late and going to the ER is their only option. 

 

So, if you're rich in America you will have medical care here or anywhere you choose to pay. There are excellent private clinics all over Europe and anyone is accepted for treatment, based on their ability to pay. If you're not, you won't have to wait, because some bureaucrat will decide if you get treatment, and which treatment you should get; and by the time you have your day in court, you'll probably be already dead.

 

Healthcare in America is as effective as the banking system is for a homeless person. 

 

 

 

I just can't see it as superior. Some things are in America but I just don't think healthcare is one of them. It's not even about trial and error and things not working as much as it is simply complete incompetence with most doctors we've come across. The technology might be there but the handlers just seem not right in the head for the most part; Just my take

 

ERs should be avoided if at all possible. Unless you are about to die, they're pretty much useless.

Edited July 4, 2017 by OriZ

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

4 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

Trump himself has said he would be in favor of single payer several times, but everyone seems to be focused on some tweets.

Make it so...i will even read and heart every tweet if we get a single payer.

[Boiler 48,098]

I have a pretty low opinion of the NHS from personal experience, and immediate family experience, but was not prepared for the US system, just silly examples from when I first moved over.

 

- Cyclist crashed big time above Boulder and the main thing he was concerned about was somebody calling an Ambulance, did not appreciate how things worked as I have crashed a couple of time and ended up with a Hospital visit, anyway I found out the deal struck me as very sad.

 

- I went to pick up a prescription and was told to make sure I paid the Insurance deductible only. Nothing special, I think it was $10 to $15 and queried it as Insurance was covering it, they looked at me somewhat oddly.

 

- That first year went to Mexico and somebody I knew asked me to pick up some sort of ointment, $10 something in Mexico, $100 something in US, identical.

 

So being intrigued and having an Insurance background I started asking questions and found out how inefficient and corrupt things are.

[IAMX 3,055]

4 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

Trump himself has said he would be in favor of single payer several times, but everyone seems to be focused on some tweets.

Can't reason with tantrums man.

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

9 hours ago, smilesammich said:

what about all the kids in the us that have actual treatable illnesses/conditions but no proper insurance? go fund me!

undocumented veterans? papers are everything. 

There are some Illegal veterans or those without proper papers due to a deportation order and they served. But the city of Los Angeles really does care about Illegals more than they care about the homeless. They go out of their way helping the Illegals while allowing things like Skid Row going on. 

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

8 hours ago, smilesammich said:

who knew "rare genetic condition and .. brain damage" was caused by the "failed socialist uk health care system"

 

why is nothing being done to save this kid? did you read anything about the condition of the kid you're so worried about?

There also is a case of a woman who has a genetic disorder basically meaning she die because he neck bones will separate from the head. There are NO doctors in the UK that treat her condition and she is trying to get treatment at one of doctors that do treat her condition in the USA or Spain. But the NIH doesn't want to pay it and she if fighting them. 

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

8 hours ago, smilesammich said:

maybe you two should start a thread on obama and veterans. let me know when trump does anything for homeless veterans. oh that's right, jg just said there's nothing he can do. but obama, he could have done everything. you guys are just blind to your own bias. it's crazy.

I am still waiting on my 100% from the VA. I will let you know when I get it.

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

5 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

We do have a socialistic healthcare system here in the US and it is atrocious.  It is called the VA, and our vets deserve much better.

 

Btw, socialism is bad.

I have had good and bad experiences with the VA. I actually just got a vasectomy from the VA last week, but literally took me 3 months to get it. 

[smilesammich 10,727]

8 hours ago, cyberfx1024 said:

There are some Illegal veterans or those without proper papers due to a deportation order and they served. But the city of Los Angeles really does care about Illegals more than they care about the homeless. They go out of their way helping the Illegals while allowing things like Skid Row going on. 

i know there are illegal veterans, i was being facetious. its absurd to me that anyone who served in the military is still without papers.

[bcking 3,157]

7 hours ago, cyberfx1024 said:

There also is a case of a woman who has a genetic disorder basically meaning she die because he neck bones will separate from the head. There are NO doctors in the UK that treat her condition and she is trying to get treatment at one of doctors that do treat her condition in the USA or Spain. But the NIH doesn't want to pay it and she if fighting them. 

Look this one up. She has Ehlers Danlos Syndrome (EDS), which is not quite as rare as what this child has (you actually study EDS quite a bit in medical school, though most people will still never see it).

 

One of the problems with all these stories in the media is how they sensationalize it (I'm sure we are already aware of the media's tendency to do that ;)). The article I just read referred to "Long QT Syndrome" as "Sudden Death Syndrome" 3-4 times in the article. It mentions the medications she takes that could "at any moment kill her" or something like that. There are thousands upon thousands of people who take medications that prolong the QT interval. They aren't all playing "russian roulette" with their lives. It is a known side effect, your QT is monitored in a clinic with frequent EKG's, and doses are adjusted if it gets too long. Is there a risk? Of course there is, but they focused on it quite a bit. Same with calling "Trigeminal Neuralgia" by some crazy nickname. 

 

That being said, there should be more support for patients in a system like the NHS who need to go outside the system for well-documented proven treatment. This is very different from this poor boy's case where no one will be able to help him, and will only provide parents with false hope. It seems like she is looking for a surgeon to do a cranial fusion and a chiari decompression and the neurosurgeons in the UK don't have the experience with doing that in patients who have EDS (which makes the case more complicated). According to one article there isn't even a surgeon in Europe (I have not fact checked that myself). That is a situation where honestly there should be more cooperation. Or our surgeons should sharing their knowledge by doing a visit to another country to teach.

[bcking 3,157]

Sorry I cannot edit my post anymore but I meant to say "Looked this one up", I wasn't telling you to look it up (you obviously already had). Too early in the morning for me

[Boiler 48,098]

I look at it differently, I think the NHS should concentrate on the basics, and do them properly, also think any other system should do the same, areas where you get the best return.

 

Experimental stuff for a want of a better word should be dealt with elsewhere, not a place for public funding. Also spending a significant chunk of your funding keeping people alive in discomfort etc makes no sense.

 

As an aside my neighbour is a retired surgeon of note and every year he goes to Egypt teaching/lecturing.

Edited July 4, 2017 by Boiler

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

9 hours ago, Boiler said:

I have a pretty low opinion of the NHS from personal experience, and immediate family experience, but was not prepared for the US system, just silly examples from when I first moved over.

 

- Cyclist crashed big time above Boulder and the main thing he was concerned about was somebody calling an Ambulance, did not appreciate how things worked as I have crashed a couple of time and ended up with a Hospital visit, anyway I found out the deal struck me as very sad.

 

- I went to pick up a prescription and was told to make sure I paid the Insurance deductible only. Nothing special, I think it was $10 to $15 and queried it as Insurance was covering it, they looked at me somewhat oddly.

 

- That first year went to Mexico and somebody I knew asked me to pick up some sort of ointment, $10 something in Mexico, $100 something in US, identical.

 

So being intrigued and having an Insurance background I started asking questions and found out how inefficient and corrupt things are.

There is a medicine I take for my sugar. It's about 800 bucks here in the US without insurance. Same company same brand in the Philippines it's about 180.00. 

[bcking 3,157]

Just now, Boiler said:

I look at it differently, I think the NHS should concentrate on the basics, and do them properly, also think any other system should do the same, areas where you get the best return.

 

Experimental stuff for a want of a better word should be dealt with elsewhere, not a place for public funding. Also spending a significant chunk of your funding keeping people alive in discomfort etc makes no sense.

 

As an aside my neighbour is a retired surgeon of note and very year he goes to Egypt teaching/lecturing.

It is has because there has to be some push forward in order to continue to advance medicine. There is still so much we could do that we can't yet, and if every system just focuses on the "basics" that may make it harder to progress.

 

That being said, moving an infant across the world for a treatment that isn't even studied for his disorder, has never been used in even animal models in his disorder, is a waste of resources and is not fair on the child. That is very different from the woman with EDS who needs a decompression and fusion and the NHS can't offer any surgeon trained to do it. Though I'm sure there are women just like her in places in the US in a similar dilemma with their insurance not wanting to cover them to go to another state, to an advanced center (Barrow etc...). If those centers have published their success with their techniques, part of their obligation should be to either bring people to them to train them, or to go out and train others. Surgery is one of those things where you can't just release a new procedure and have it take hold like a medication. You need hands on training.

[bcking 3,157]

Just now, Nature Boy Flair said:

There is a medicine I take for my sugar. It's about 800 bucks here in the US without insurance. Same company same brand in the Philippines it's about 180.00. 

I'm not saying this is 100% effective, but I know many people who have reached out to the pharmaceutical companies and gotten the medications for far less than the "uninsured sticker price". When you go to the pharmacy and they say it costs that much, that is because that is what the company would charge to insurance. Insurance companies will never pay that. It is a starting place for a "negotiation". I've seen people have great success contacting companies (usually with the help of a social worker or similar) and appealing to them.

 

Not saying that people should have to do that, it's just one of the side effects of a fragmented insurance-based system. No 2 insurance companies pay the same amount, so companies are prepared to bargain. That means they aim high, and behind close doors hash out a middle ground. If an indivdiual tries to get involved in that, they usually get squashed.