California politics updates: $400 billion for single-payer healthcare, audit demanded in election of state Democratic Party chair

[Dashinka 25,891]

51 minutes ago, Póg mo said:

He here is 

All I am really saying is that you can't on the one hand complain about taxation, because it's presumably making people poorer, but completly ignore how outrageously expensive health care.

 

Also the OP ignores the huge savings the average Californian stands to benefit from, if California were to switch to a single payer system.  http://calitics.com/index.php/2017/05/22/single-payer-would-cost-a-third-of-current-health-care-costs-per-family/

Weren't we told the ACA would result in savings to the average person?  

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

6 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

Weren't we told the ACA would result in savings to the average person?  

And costs have sky rocketed

 

I honestly dont know the answer. I do know we have the most expensive health care in the world and are near the bottom of the industrialized world in performance. Something got to give. 

[Póg mo 1,749]

1 hour ago, Bill & Katya said:

Weren't we told the ACA would result in savings to the average person?  

We were told that Trump would improve the health insurance market, reduce the numbers of who lack insurance and it would all cost much less.   The ACA has in fact broadly met its goals. It's certainly not perfect, a single payer option would have helped greatly, but Republicans would have none of it.  Clearly you have completely made up your mind, so further discussion of the ACA with you is rather pointless.

[Dashinka 25,891]

2 minutes ago, Póg mo said:

We were told that Trump would improve the health insurance market, reduce the numbers of who lack insurance and it would all cost much less.   The ACA has in fact broadly met its goals. It's certainly not perfect, a single payer option would have helped greatly, but Republicans would have none of it.  Clearly you have completely made up your mind, so further discussion of the ACA with you is rather pointless.

Republicans didn't have anything to do with the ACA being passed and signed into law. If the Democrats wanted single payer, they should have done it instead of passing this mess.  As to broadly meeting its goals, does that mean reducing the numbers of insurers for most people?

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

3 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

Republicans didn't have anything to do with the ACA being passed and signed into law. If the Democrats wanted single payer, they should have done it instead of passing this mess.  As to broadly meeting its goals, does that mean reducing the numbers of insurers for most people?

And it's only been 5 months and Trump has not fixed health care yet . 🤡

[Póg mo 1,749]

1 minute ago, Bill & Katya said:

Republicans didn't have anything to do with the ACA being passed and signed into law. If the Democrats wanted single payer, they should have done it instead of passing this mess.  As to broadly meeting its goals, does that mean reducing the numbers of insurers for most people?

Well it certainly helped get rid of psudo insurance policies that didn't cover anything and we're likely to be cancelled the moment someone needed health care, if they were supposed to cover an illness. Ah the good old days, when your insurance company would denigh coverage, because someone answered yes instead of know on an insurance application several years previously. Good times. 

[Póg mo 1,749]

2 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

And it's only been 5 months and Trump has not fixed health care yet . 🤡

Well we have seen the bill passed, you know the one they didn't bother to even read, let alone be audited before taking a vote? Lots of people now stand to lose coverage. Remember when Republicans made a huge deal about the Dems not reading the ACA before they voted? Funny how quickly they forget. Probably another case of, the Dems did it, so we can too.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

23 minutes ago, Póg mo said:

Well we have seen the bill passed, you know the one they didn't bother to even read, let alone be audited before taking a vote? Lots of people now stand to lose coverage. Remember when Republicans made a huge deal about the Dems not reading the ACA before they voted? Funny how quickly they forget. Probably another case of, the Dems did it, so we can too.

I do seem to recall something about passing a healthcare bill to find out whats in it ROFL

[IAMX 3,055]

1 hour ago, Póg mo said:

Well we have seen the bill passed, you know the one they didn't bother to even read, let alone be audited before taking a vote? Lots of people now stand to lose coverage. Remember when Republicans made a huge deal about the Dems not reading the ACA before they voted? Funny how quickly they forget. Probably another case of, the Dems did it, so we can too.

Why not? That's how party fanaticism works, and there's plenty of it.

[Póg mo 1,749]

43 minutes ago, IAMX said:

Why not? That's how party fanaticism works, and there's plenty of it.

I suppose I should have wrote, we believe the Dems are guilty of something, so it's perfectly okay do something much worse. E.g. claim the Dems are at fault for using immigrants to build a voting base, then set about using their position of power to disenfranchis as many people as possible from voting registers. Luckily the supreme Court put a stop to that. Hypocrisy at its finest.

[Dashinka 25,891]

10 hours ago, Póg mo said:

Well it certainly helped get rid of psudo insurance policies that didn't cover anything and we're likely to be cancelled the moment someone needed health care, if they were supposed to cover an illness. Ah the good old days, when your insurance company would denigh coverage, because someone answered yes instead of know on an insurance application several years previously. Good times. 

I know I had a much better healthcare plan before the ACA was passed.  I guess President Obama's statements about 'keeping your plan if you like your plan' were just a bunch of political BS.  Also, the other elephant in the room if California passes this, how do they control costs across state lines?  If the utopia you predict comes to pass and the healthcare costs in California is greatly reduced, what happens when someone goes to say Arizona, or Minnesota for health care where it is so much more expensive.  The other factor is the increased in wait times under single payer systems, just look at Canada to see the average wait times to see a specialist for something like brain surgery.  Is that acceptable?

 

The other thing you have to remember is that government agencies never experience financial savings.  California will increase taxes to pay for this plan and if in fact there are any savings, they will just roll that into their bullet train, or some other useless boondoggle.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Bill & Katya

[Dashinka 25,891]

10 hours ago, Póg mo said:

Well we have seen the bill passed, you know the one they didn't bother to even read, let alone be audited before taking a vote? Lots of people now stand to lose coverage. Remember when Republicans made a huge deal about the Dems not reading the ACA before they voted? Funny how quickly they forget. Probably another case of, the Dems did it, so we can too.

Don't you remember your Schoolhouse Rock episode "I'm Just a Bill"?  One house passing a bill does not make the bill a law.  Personally, I doubt the Repubs can do anything, and we will probably end up in a single payer system which President Trump himself seems to like.  I could probably get behind that as long as we secured our borders.  I wonder if this happens (single payer) will President Trump get any love from the MDL?  I doubt it, they will probably just say that this was President Obama's plan all along, so credit goes to him along with another Nobel!

[IAMX 3,055]

2 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

I know I had a much better healthcare plan before the ACA was passed.  I guess President Obama's statements about 'keeping your plan if you like your plan' were just a bunch of political BS.  Also, the other elephant in the room if California passes this, how do they control costs across state lines?  If the utopia you predict comes to pass and the healthcare costs in California is greatly reduced, what happens when someone goes to say Arizona, or Minnesota for health care where it is so much more expensive.  The other factor is the increased in wait times under single payer systems, just look at Canada to see the average wait times to see a specialist for something like brain surgery.  Is that acceptable?

 

The other thing you have to remember is that government agencies never experience financial savings.  California will increase taxes to pay for this plan and if in fact there are any savings, they will just roll that into their bullet train, or some other useless boondoggle.

If you needed immediate brain surgery here you'd get it. There's no wait times for emergency care. For people who aren't emergent, yes, they have to wait. Average for brain surgery in Alberta, since the vast majority of patients are not emergent, is 4 weeks.

 

Lets not compare this California bill to Canada. It's not even close. Despite a similar population (not counting all the illegals in California), Canada spends only 200 billion on healthcare nationally. California will go way above 400 billion easily. In a way, California must compete with other states to prevent people from moving their practice, and they must pass laws that forbid providers to deny private options, because they'd be more likely to do the latter. Their situation is very complex, and made worse by their own fiscal ineptitude. 

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

59 minutes ago, IAMX said:

If you needed immediate brain surgery here you'd get it. There's no wait times for emergency care. For people who aren't emergent, yes, they have to wait. Average for brain surgery in Alberta, since the vast majority of patients are not emergent, is 4 weeks.

Lets not compare this California bill to Canada. It's not even close. Despite a similar population (not counting all the illegals in California), Canada spends only 200 billion on healthcare nationally. California will go way above 400 billion easily. In a way, California must compete with other states to prevent people from moving their practice, and they must pass laws that forbid providers to deny private options, because they'd be more likely to do the latter. Their situation is very complex, and made worse by their own fiscal ineptitude. 

The main reasons the California bill is up to almost $400 Billion is because California has large population of Undocumented/Illegal people that this will provide care for. It is as simple as that. They have been pushing the middle class out of California only to replace them with Poor Undocumented people.

[IAMX 3,055]

27 minutes ago, cyberfx1024 said:

The main reasons the California bill is up to almost $400 Billion is because California has large population of Undocumented/Illegal people that this will provide care for. It is as simple as that. They have been pushing the middle class out of California only to replace them with Poor Undocumented people.

Illegales por vida! Eh paisa? 

Edited May 25, 2017 by IAMX